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This company is so anti-consumer it's ridiculous.

How is this anti-consumers?

You have to remember that developers are usually the evil party here and Apple does a lot to protect us from ever having to deal with the developer.
 
The issue with this is the app store is the ONLY way to get software on these devices. At that point it becomes extortion of sorts, because there's literally no other way to do business with a large percentage of the mobile device market.

That's the main value Apple provides: Access to customers.

And companies should be allowed to make money when they provide value to others, e.g. developers.
 
Maybe I am missing something here but how are they going to collect that commission?
Especially if it is a sale that could have been performed from a browser from any OS.
Read the OP in this thread for more details. Basically, developers will supply Apple with a report on sales, and Apple will send them an invoice.
 
Putting it to you as well:

Add Paddle, Fastspring, Stripe and co. - to stop the disingenuity.

(We're talking in-app purchasing here, from within a developer's app that the consumer already downloaded, installed and opened up. There's no "platform" hosting or outside marketing involved as run and done by Epic, Nintendo, Sony etc. - or a brick & mortar store).

And the value Apple provides is access to customers and tools/IP to make the solution.

What these developers want is cheaper or free access to customers. Apple says no and since they're in control, all these other companies are forced to abide by Apple rules which is a great thing.
 
Very trollish behavior. I have never felt more ashamed to be an Apple user than I do at this very moment.

I'm very proud of being an Apple customer.

You don't seem to think that the developers are the bad actors here and we need Apple to protect us from them and keep them on a short leash.
 
Comparing physical stores to app stores is like saying that Walmart should get 30% of every software purchase made using an iPhone because the original owner purchased the iPhone at Walmart. If that’s not the argument you’re trying to make then the two aren’t comparable.

And Walmart should be allowed to try that.
 
Maybe I am missing something here but how are they going to collect that commission?
Especially if it is a sale that could have been performed from a browser from any OS.
That is why I was wondering if it is related to the Entitlement Link guidelines. But, Apple is expecting the 3rd parties to open their accounting books up and allowing Apple to view them qtrly. These companies may give Apple an accounting report to look at, but I anticipate Apple is going to only see a middle finger in them.
 
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Ahh. Some vague, unspecified argument going "back far enough". The findings of fact in this case directly refute your argument.
Ah, some vague, unspecified findings of fact. Please tell me what they are, exactly.
 
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Secondly, the way I see it it should be the other way around. Why are devs paying Apple to use iOS APIs if their apps make the platform extremely attractive to end users. You know what would happen to the iPhone if it had no third party apps? Ask Microsoft what happened to windows phone. Nobody used it because it had no apps.

Any developer should be legally allowed to ask money of Apple for developing for their plattforms or stop developing.

They should just go ahead. I hope Alphabet and Meta will be the first to stop developing.
 
Why can Amazon, Booking.com or Expedia, UBER, my bank and investment broker, the train company etc. all use Apple’s APIs and developer tools for frees (besides the developer subscription) - while I‘m spending thousands of dollars through their apps every year?

Because of Apple's good will. Apple could of course charge for those too if they wanted to.

That's what's so great with capitalism and a free market. Businesses can decide what they give away for free and what they charge for.
 
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I surveyed the users of one of my apps and found that 45% had bought a tablet specifically to run my app on. So by Apple's logic, I should get a 30% commission from every iPad those users buy.

It would be perfectly legal for you to make such a claim to Apple and stop developing for their platform if they don't want an agreement with you.
 
can a platform charge a platform fee?
I have two answers:

1) Yes, but it feels icky if there are no real market forces at work to moderate what that fee is. Given the nature of mobile platforms, where the interconnected functionality locks people into one for years at a time (unlike, say, being able to buy clothes at Target and groceries at Walmart) it seems that some regulatory intervention is appropriate.
2) On the other hand, given the mutual benefit between hardware makers and software makers, it feels fundamentally unfair when one side starts taxing the other side to participate in the relationship. Going from a beloved company to a resented company among the people who build software for it can't be good in the long run.

A developer boycott would be an interesting development ... remove all iOS apps as a way to negotiate better terms. Right now we're relying on a few big companies like Epic and Spotify to push for change.
 
I have two answers:

1) Yes, but it feels icky if there are no real market forces at work to moderate what that fee is. Given the nature of mobile platforms, where the interconnected functionality locks people into one for years at a time (unlike, say, being able to buy clothes at Target and groceries at Walmart) it seems that some regulatory intervention is appropriate.
2) On the other hand, given the mutual benefit between hardware makers and software makers, it feels fundamentally unfair when one side starts taxing the other side to participate in the relationship. Going from a beloved company to a resented company among the people who build software for it can't be good in the long run.

A developer boycott would be an interesting development ... remove all iOS apps as a way to negotiate better terms. Right now we're relying on a few big companies like Epic and Spotify to push for change.

The DOJ suit should grease the wheels.

These moves are really ill timed on Apples part given how much regulatory scrutiny they are under.
 
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Entitlement. How appropriately named. Apple thinks they're still entitled to a cut of sales even though purchases are made without use Apple's payment system.

That's been the case since 2008. Read the agreements a developer has to accept.
 
Sorry, Apple, but you're not handling money processing so you should have no say (or collection from) what people charge.

And don't give me the "well, Apple makes the developer tools" crap. Apple has to make their own developer tools because if they didn't, no one would develop for them, because Apple has burned so many bridges.

Seriously, Apple needs third-party developers a lot more than third-party developers need them.

If Apple provides no value to developers, then the rational thing to do would be to stop being a developer for Apple's platforms.
 
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Ah, some vague, unspecified findings of fact. Please tell me what they are, exactly.
Sure. Nothing vague or unspecified. I'm referring to the case we are discussing in this thread. Here's a direct quote from the decision.

"First, and most significant, as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a commission on developers. It would simply be more difficult for Apple to collect that commission."
 
To the complainers, why are developers entitled to use Apple’s toolchains and API’s for free?

Just because you coded it on your own doesn’t mean your code is independent of all the calls to what Apple built. They built the platform to the tunes of tens of billions of dollars. You built an app that runs on the platform🤷‍♂️ Build your own OS if you want everything “free of charge”.

I suspect, however, that the majority of the complaints here are from people that haven’t written a line of code in their life and therefore don’t understand how anything works under the hood.
 
Not for apps or services that are cross-platform and also available on the web. But if it’s about that then why does Apple allow some apps to bypass compensating them? Why doesn’t this compensation scheme apply to Uber or Lyft or food delivery services?

Because Apple is allowed to decide how they make money off of their property.

Apple doesn't have to be consistent or follow some standard on how you make money.
 
Why am I free to install whatever I want on my $1500 Macbook personal computer, yet I am forbidden from installing whatever I want on my $1500 iPhone which is also effectively a personal computer? I’m tired of doing the mental gymnastics to see Apple’s side of fhe argument - it’s my device, let me do what I want with it.

Because macOS and iOS is Apple's property. They decide how it works and how they profit from it.

Apple has given you more freedom when you use macOS than iOS. Why? It doesn't matter.
 
Apple has still found a way to get it's cake and eat it. If Apple tries this entitlement rubbish on it's app stores in the EU they will most probably find they will be back in EU court again.

They're already doing this in the Netherlands.
 
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I said we don't know (read the rest of my comment) how much Apple makes from the App Store. The commenter I replied to said Apple should have 5% fee (or at least a 5% fee wouldn't be controversial). I countered saying we don't know how much Apple makes so we can't say what the fee "should" be.
Plus Epic reported themselves that the Epic Games Store fee is not enough.
 
Are you saying you would still buy an iPhone if no non Apple app could be installed.

Where is my former employers 30% from Apple for the 10 of thousands of iPads that bot only to run its app.

No, I wouldn't buy an iPhone then, but as long as I get the apps I need...

Your former employee are of course allowed to make a request to Apple that they'll stop developing apps for iPads unless Apple pays them.

That's the beauty of the free market.
 
Do you think people would still buy iPhones if they couldn't run Instagram/Tik Tok etc on them? Some would but millions wouldn't. So does Apple owe Meta and Tik Tok a cut of the profits from iPhone sales, or does it only work one way?

It works both way.

Meta and Bytedance could require Apple to sign a contract with them about profit sharing or else they would stop developing for iOS. And Apple would be free to decline or make counterclaims. It's all about who has the most power.
 
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