Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

U.S. Developers Can Now Offer Non-App Store Purchasing Option, But Apple Will Still Collect Commissions

Mrkevinfinnerty said:
Ok but you are hyperfocussing on products v the market they exist in. There is no comparison to be made between Apple and Google influence on digital commerce v Sony or Nintendo.

There is a reason regulators are scrutinising Apple/Googles business practices.
Click to expand...
You’re attempting to make an iPhone an essential service; which I’m claiming it is not for the reasons I mentioned. Claiming an iPhone is an essential service bolsters your argument. Rejecting an iPhone as an essential service deconstructs the argument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chuckeee
I7guy said:
You’re attempting to make an iPhone an essential service; which I’m claiming it is not for the reasons I mentioned. Claiming an iPhone is an essential service bolsters your argument. Rejecting an iPhone as an essential service deconstructs the argument.
Click to expand...

No i'm not. Never at any point have I done that. Hth
 
  • Angry
Reactions: waltman
neuropsychguy said:
Greed? How much money does Apple make from the (mostly 15%, not 30%) fees? Unless you know exactly what Apple's profits from App Store commissions are, you're being upset just to be upset. You don't know if Apple makes anything on the App Store. It's likely they do, but we don't have that information (unless you work for Apple and happen to know). Maybe Apple's margin is only 5%. Is that too much? Maybe it's 70%. Is that too much? Are developers making money? Are developers making too much or too little money?

Why is 5% appropriate? That would likely lose Apple money -- it's expensive to run the App Store. How do I know 5% would lose them money? Apple's services gross (not even net) margins are about 70%. There is little chance Apple is making that much on the App Store but let's just assume the App Store is at a 70% margin. With an assumed 70% margin and a 30% fee (most developers are not paying that much), Apple gross "break even" point is a 9% fee. That's gross margin though and would in reality lose Apple money. If Apple mainly has 15% fees, Apple gross "break even" point is a 4.5% commission. Again, that's not net, so that level would lose Apple money.

What this means is 5% will almost certainly lose Apple money. 10% might only be a break even point. This means that Apple charging 15% to most developers and 30% to others, allows Apple to make some money.

Can Apple only charge a fee if it loses them money? Can Apple only break even? Is Apple only allowed a small margin? What is an appropriate margin for Apple? Why do you get to decide?
Click to expand...
Sorry I stopped reading after the “you know nothing but Apple loses and gains xxx”. You know nothing too. 30% cut is just ridiculous in any market.
 
bcortens said:
They can charge commission but only if they use their payment processing. If they don’t then they can’t.
Click to expand...

But the commission has nothing to do with payments. We've already determined that Apple's 30% fee is actually 3% for payment processing... and 27% for their commission.

The commission is a platform fee. Or an IP licensing fee. Or whatever you want to call it.

And that's what I was asking earlier... can a platform charge a platform fee?

Or... should a developer be allowed to build their business on a platform while the platform gets nothing? That doesn't seem right.

🤔
 
dgdosen said:
Somebody at Apple does not understand the concept of goodwill. Apple is hurting it's "reputational capital"
Click to expand...
It clearly is not, imo. But yeah I’m sure some MR posters may feel the same but imo the hundreds of millions of the general population are not engaged in this discussion.
 
macnomad said:
Sorry I stopped reading after the “you know nothing but Apple loses and gains xxx”. You know nothing too. 30% cut is just ridiculous in any market.
Click to expand...
What's a fair cut? What commission is fair to developers, fair to consumers, and fair to Apple? Please also provide good rationale for why it's fair.

Notice that nowhere have I said I supported Apple's 30% fee (reality is 15% for most developers but most of Apple's fee revenue comes from the bigger companies paying more). I also haven't said I'm opposed to it. It doesn't really affect me that much. I mainly want people to reason through why they do or do not support Apple's actions, rather than just spouting off some gut-reactionary comment.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy
mdriftmeyer said:
Yes, Apple does handle money processing. They manage relationships with over 53 countries and their conversions/exchange rates, taxes, etc none of which the Developers have to deal one cent about. All reports Apple generates and your tax account has very little work to do and you don't need an accounting team for sales transactions.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about the "Non-App Store" payments, as follows from the context of the article (admittedly, I should have been more clear about that). Obviously Apple handles payments on their own store (although I'd still argue that that doesn't merit anywhere near the 30% cut they take - and Apple knows it, too).
 
trusso said:
I'm talking about the "Non-App Store" payments, as follows from the context of the article (admittedly, I should have been more clear about that). Obviously Apple handles payments on their own store (although I'd still argue that that doesn't merit anywhere near the 30% cut they take - and Apple knows it, too).
Click to expand...
As has been made abundantly clear, the 30% Apple charges to less than 2% of developers is not for payment processing. It is the licensing fee that they charge for their extremely valuable IP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michael Scrip
AppliedMicro said:
It pretty much is one as much as internet, the banking system or telecommunication.
Click to expand...
Can you conduct e-commerce without an iPhone? Do your banking? Communicate with people? Check Facebook and send emails?

It’s not an essential service. It’s an amazingly popular and well put together cell phone that depends on critical, essential infrastructure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chuckeee
BaldiMac said:
As has been made abundantly clear, the 30% Apple charges to less than 2% of developers is not for payment processing. It is the licensing fee that they charge for their extremely valuable IP.
Click to expand...
It's not.

It's a commission on sales, as clearly stated in their paid developer agreement.

The fee for their valuable IP - including the possibility to publish apps - is the $99 price of their developer program. As evidenced by the majority of freely available apps that don't pay anything else for use of Apple's IP.
 
I7guy said:
Can you conduct e-commerce without an iPhone? Do your banking? Communicate with people? Check Facebook and send emails?
Click to expand...
I can, in fact, not access my bank account for make everyday transactions without a mobile phone (running Android or iOS).

I received a weather warning on my iPhone yesterday. And today the bus services in my street broke down due to the weather - and there no one and nothing else being able to tell my other than the transit app on my smartphone.

So yes, it's pretty essential. Not as essential as food - but about as essential as transportation, yes.
 
AppliedMicro said:
It's not.

It's a commission on sales, as clearly stated in their paid developer agreement.

The fee for their valuable IP - including the possibility to publish apps - is the $99 price of their developer program. As evidenced by the majority of freely available apps that don't pay anything else for use of Apple's IP.
Click to expand...
That's nonsense. You're just playing word games. The judge's decision made it clear.

"First, and most significant, as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a commission on developers. It would simply be more difficult for Apple to collect that commission."
 
I7guy said:
Can you conduct e-commerce without an iPhone? Do your banking? Communicate with people? Check Facebook and send emails?

It’s not an essential service. It’s an amazingly popular and well put together cell phone that depends on critical, essential infrastructure.
Click to expand...

Cell Phones / Smart Phones are riding that narrow line not to be an ES. As more and more use mobile for all their internet and emergency services access, it won’t be much longer till it is. Personally I give it a year or two.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AppliedMicro and jgreg728
contacos said:
The F. Sorry but it’s non of Apples business what I am doing outside of the ecosystem once I click on a link!
Click to expand...
It’s not about Apple caring about what you do. They want to make sure any liability is swayed away from them SHOULD anything go wrong in that process. Also - the devs would be using Apple’s platform to promote their own. That shouldn’t come free.
 
BaldiMac said:
As has been made abundantly clear...
Click to expand...
Where?

BaldiMac said:
...the 30% Apple charges to less than 2% of developers is not for payment processing. It is the licensing fee that they charge for their extremely valuable IP.
Click to expand...
Nah, if you go back far enough (to the origins of the App Store) a large portion of that sizable cut was argued to be for payment processing and software distribution infrastructure. Take out the payment processing (and at scale, the software distribution costs Apple halfpennies on the dollar) and what is left? The nebulous "intellectual property" argument has only come about in the last few years as people are rightly side-eyeing Apple for price-gouging the very developers that make their platform successful. And if the IP everyone loves to quote is referring to the developer tools and APIs that Apple provides - well, see my first post again.

Apple continues to handicap itself by not opening up its hardware or software to third-parties or open source communities (as is their choice, but they must pay the consequences). The siloed world they create for themselves allows them to up-charge for their products up the wazoo, but it also means, over the decades (and with multiple architecture and kernel changes) that they are the only ones willing and able to create developer tools for their platform. Since you need third-party software and hardware support to have any sort of successful platform, Apple does this by necessity for their own good - because if they didn't, the Mac platform (and iOS) would eventually whither and die (and with it, Apple's immense profits).

So don't give me that crap about Apple "deserving" all this. They're out to help themselves, not developers (as evidenced by continued strained relationships with innumerable developers the world over). Thank you. Don't drink the kool-aid. Please try again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dk001 and AppliedMicro
AppliedMicro said:
As evidenced by the majority of freely available apps that don't pay anything else for use of Apple's IP.
Click to expand...

Correct... Apple doesn't charge a commission fee to use their IP to distribute free apps. That's nice.

But once a developer decides to use Apple's IP to start a business and make money... then Apple charges a commission fee. That seems perfectly reasonable.

AppliedMicro said:
The fee for their valuable IP - including the possibility to publish apps - is the $99 price of their developer program.
Click to expand...

The $99/year developer fee is more for identification purposes and to make sure you're serious.

But the idea that a developer can start a company and potentially make millions of dollars using Apple's IP for a mere $99/year is kinda ridiculous... in my opinion.

Apple thinks their IP and platform is valuable and thus charges a commission fee.

And considering there are 2 million iOS apps and billions of dollars to be made from iOS apps... developers think the platform is valuable, too.

:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back