If Apple charged all developers fairly you’d have a point. They don’t charge Netflix, or any app that is ad driven like YouTube…
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U.S. Developers Can Now Offer Non-App Store Purchasing Option, But Apple Will Still Collect Commissions
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They can charge commission but only if they use their payment processing. If they don’t then they can’t. i actually do think that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo should allow games to offer their own payment processing.Alright... so no commission fees? Anywhere?
Apple can't charge commission fees.
Google can't charge commission fees.
Sony can't charge commission fees.
Microsoft can't charge commission fees.
Nintendo can't charge commission fees.
That'll be interesting...
If Apple wants to charge a commission like the game consoles do they would have to demonstrate that, like game consoles, they don’t make money on hardware and need the commission to actually justify and fund future development of the platform. Apple makes enough money from the hardware to fund the platform development. Games consoles also aren’t essential computing platforms the way that phones are.
Are you seriously suggesting Apple may not make massive amounts of money on the App Store? Wow!
We know the App Store margins are huge. Expert witness in the Epic trial estimated the margins at nearly 80%
Apple’s App Store Had 78% Margin in 2019, Epic Expert Says
Apple Inc.’s App Store had operating margins of almost 78% in fiscal year 2019, according to testimony from an Epic Games Inc. expert witness based on documents obtained from the iPhone maker.
www.bloomberg.com
The company suing Apple hired an expert witness who ran calculations and said Apple's margins were 78%. Apple's executives, who might not be telling the truth but who do have insider knowledge, denied it. Which company do you believe? The company suing Apple or Apple?We know the App Store margins are huge. Expert witness in the Epic trial estimated the margins at nearly 80%
Apple’s App Store Had 78% Margin in 2019, Epic Expert Says
Apple Inc.’s App Store had operating margins of almost 78% in fiscal year 2019, according to testimony from an Epic Games Inc. expert witness based on documents obtained from the iPhone maker.
Who do I believe? Neither company. I don't have the data so I reserve judgment. However, I'll lean towards believing Apple because it at least has the data and Apple's executives said Epic's witness's number was wrong.
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I don't think I've "discovered" an app on the App Store since the iPhone 6 was new. I always read about them elsewhere first, then go to the app store and get them.
That said, I haven't downloaded a single new app from the App Store in a couple years, found there or otherwise. It's a wasteland.
I said we don't know (read the rest of my comment) how much Apple makes from the App Store. The commenter I replied to said Apple should have 5% fee (or at least a 5% fee wouldn't be controversial). I countered saying we don't know how much Apple makes so we can't say what the fee "should" be.
Based on insider knowledge of what Apple's margins are or your guesses? Based on what a hostile company's expert witness (who didn't have insider knowledge) claimed in a lawsuit?
The judge in the 2021 case agreed with the estimate that the margin was north of 70%.
What does this response have to do with the original post. What point are you attempting to make. That devs and apple each have something to offer and if a dev wants what apple offers (customers) these are the rules?
Yep agreed. And devs get paid handsomely too. See epic. Making boatloads of money and they got greedy, tired or whatever. Now they are making $0 from the platform. Apple won every count except one.
So what’s your point?
Where is that written? I've found this statement from the judge: "'While the court finds that Apple enjoys considerable market share of over 55 percent and extraordinarily high profit margins, these factors alone do not show antitrust conduct,' she said. 'Success is not illegal.'"
Do you have a link where the judge confirmed >70% margins? I'm asking because "extraordinarily high profit margins" is a subjective statement but a number (like what she said about Apple' market share) would be objective. Do you have that number from the judge's ruling?
Edit: see the reply. Apparently the judge did claim >70% margins. What’s unknown is if that’s also pulling from numbers Apple might have provided. It’s possible that statement was largely based on Epic’s witness’s testimony but Apple could have provided actual data. If the number is accurate, then I understand why Apple doesn’t want to reduce the fee.
However, see my original comment for a little reality check for people claiming Apple can do a 5% fee. That’s not possible to maintain profitability. If we go with most of the money coming from big developers paying 30%, Apple’s gross but not net break-even point is around a 9% fee. Apple’s net break-even point is likely closer to a 12% fee, unless Apple cuts back on services provided.
Does Apple cut everyone down to 15%? If Apple’s services margins decline, Apple will increase hardware margins. Apple tries to keep overall margins around 40% and has for many years. Sometimes they’ve been lower and sometimes a little higher, but Apple doesn’t run like Amazon. It keeps margins.
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Isn’t fair to who? Why are you concerned about the way the rules are?
No, but they are entitled to the fees.
The AppStore revenue says this relationship working between devs and apple. Sure bumps along the way, who doesn’t have a bump every now and then.
The bigger problem with the fees is they are targeted very heavily at only items that Apple also offers if digital items which gets back to vertical integration abuse of power and anti trust.
As soon as Apple started heavily offering their own in the same realm it becomes a big issue of anti trust and abuse of power.
Let’s look back. No Netflix would have killed Apple TV value to near zero. iPhone would have been hurt. So would the iPad.
How many people would have still bought the Apple TV with no Netflix on it while Netflix was still on everything else. Gets even worse when you go back in time even farther when Netflix was the only streaming service. Safe to say Netflix helped Apple more.
Judge opens Apple’s App Store to competition
Ruling in Epic Games case will allow developers in the US to bypass tech group’s in-app payment tool
Please see the comments above.
Apple may have 'won' in as much as they couldn't be proven to me a monopolist they were admonished by the judge for anti consumer behavior she also said she felt some of Apples fees had only been changed due to the threat of litigation and not , as Tim Cook claimed, to boost competition.
Yes. Apple still gets to collect (thankfully) although the anti-steering provision allows for different collection points.Judge opens Apple’s App Store to competition
Ruling in Epic Games case will allow developers in the US to bypass tech group’s in-app payment toolwww.ft.com
View attachment 2337551
Please see the comments above.
Apple may have 'won' in as much as they couldn't be proven to me a monopolist they were admonished by the judge for anti consumer behavior she also said she felt some of Apples fees had only been changed due to the threat of litigation and not , as Tim Cook claimed, to boost competition.
My analogy is far closer to the situation than the other poster's "Target posting a sign in Walmart..."
Walmart spends billions on marketing/advertising, employees, real estate, shelving, lighting, etc. but that doesn't mean they should get a cut of HP sales if customers read the text on HP products in their stores and decide to buy/subscribe at hp.com.
Thank you for providing that.Judge opens Apple’s App Store to competition
Ruling in Epic Games case will allow developers in the US to bypass tech group’s in-app payment tool
View attachment 2337551
Please see the comments above.
Apple may have 'won' in as much as they couldn't be proven to me a monopolist they were admonished by the judge for anti consumer behavior she also said she felt some of Apples fees had only been changed due to the threat of litigation and not , as Tim Cook claimed, to boost competition.
This is actually because Google had to face a jury of regular people and apple just had to convince an elite judge
The message I could take or leave, but still collecting a commission for an external link? I don't think the mass amount of people who use the App Store to manage their subscription are going to jump out the window. C'mon Apple, why pull a Microsoft? Not cool.
Also, Sweeney shouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses since he doesn't offer Epic products on any store put his own.
Also, Sweeney shouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses since he doesn't offer Epic products on any store put his own.
They should if Walmart and HP have agreed that’s what should happen.
Yeah, given that it took as long as it did for USB-C to finally come to the iPhone, I wouldn't get too excited just yet
Even though the EU will have the ability to sideload/install from anything else aside from the App Store when iOS 18 launches next fall, the US probably will still have to wait a few more years
Golly, that warning though
Considering how much more minimal things have become like the volume indicator and everything, this kind of warning taking up the whole screen like this is a giant eyesore... Surely they couldn't have just done this via a little popup like everything else?
Considering how much more minimal things have become like the volume indicator and everything, this kind of warning taking up the whole screen like this is a giant eyesore... Surely they couldn't have just done this via a little popup like everything else?