U.S. Government Official Questions Apple Over iPhone Battery Slowdowns

[ugahairydawgs]

A lot of people online are defending Apple saying they did this change so peoples phones wouldn't shut off under high loads.

And that's fine, the problem is they didn't tell anyone this was how they were mitigating the sudden shutdown issue which lead consumers to believe their phones were getting slower not due to ageing batteries but due to newer software needing higher specifications which lead consumers to upgrade to newer devices at significant cost when they could have purchased a much cheaper replacement battery.

That's the problem, Apples lack of communication. Now the question which the lawsuits will be seeking an answer to is whether Apple deliberately did not explain this because they knew it would help sales of newer iPhones.

Personally I hope that Apple gets really beaten up over this because we as consumers deserve to know what their software patches are really doing at a deeper level than vague "General improvements and bug fixes" etc

This would be all well and good if the average consumer cared about nuance. But we live in a world full of people that get their news from headlines and hot takes. Most don’t stick around for the details.

Batteries degrade, that shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. Apple went from a setup to where the phone would shut down with the meter showing 30% to one where the phone gets slower to mitigate the battery degradation. I would be willing to bet all of the money in my pocket that most people, even with all of the main stream coverage of this issue, still don’t know/care why the phone is slowing down.

 

[clauzzz203]

This is when it really starts happening. Glad the goverment got involved.

 

[Smartass]

Why should Apple offer free battery replacements in old phones? Batteries degrade over time, that's life. People sure have a sense of entitlement in 2018.

Good quality batteries degrade over time. Bad quality batteries cause these kind of problems that iphone 6/6s/7 useres around the world are currently dealing with. Apple installed low quality batteries into their phones, and two years later, instead of telling everybody that their batteries are crap, they implemented CPU throttling with an excuse that "Iphones might shut down at 20% because their CPU needs more power than an average Tesla car". With it, they hoped that people will just confuse throttling with their phones being old, so they would just buy a new phone (a lot of people actually did) and this whole battery issue would go away. Well, luckily for us consumers(and unlucky for Apple fanboys), the crap has hit the fan and Apple is going to pay dearly for their sleazy tactics.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Why should Apple offer free battery replacements in old phones? Batteries degrade over time, that's life.

The problem is far fewer people would likely drop $600-$1,000 or so on a phone if they knew the battery would degrade to such a point it would affect performance of the device within a couple of years, especially since the batteries themselves are not user-replaceable, effectively forcing you to pay high Apple prices. There's an issue of fit for purpose IMO.

 

[Christoffee]

Apple has already stated, in plain language, that this has nothing to do with planned obsolescence. In fact, it's the exact opposite — an effort to make devices last longer.

Except most people here will have experienced software updates wrecking phones. My beautiful 4S now only runs Overcast, and it runs like a dog. Clean install, with everything turned off except enough for podcasts in the house. My iPad 2 was the same - an absolute wonder when first purchased is now not fit for purpose.

I know the battery issue and the obsolescence issue are not entirely connected. But for ages people have thought that Apple is deliberately or incompetently slowing down phones, and now there is proof that they do.

I understand the rage.

 

[Hal~9000]

Has anyone from Apple explained why the battery in the iPhone is only rated for half the charging cycles of the Apple Watch, iPad and MacBooks?

Hopefully this comes out during the lawsuits. Seems pretty clear clut to me though: greed & increased profits via planned obsolescence.

 

[Christoffee]

Why should Apple offer free battery replacements in old phones? Batteries degrade over time, that's life. People sure have a sense of entitlement in 2018.

There time and there's "time".

I have a 6S. About 3 months into ownership I took it in for a battery check and was told it was something like 95% healthy, but I had the symptons which would eventually lead to the recall.

After 18 months my battery was shot, yet an Apple diagnosis showed it at 83% health. I showed them the percentage visably going down in front of them, but their diagnosis said it was fine.

Batteries will degrade, but when their diagnosis tools are so wrong and they mislead customers, there will be rage. Additionally, if they are designing phones that perform and look wonderful, but to the extent that batteries degrade so fast, there is a design flaw and they should replace batteries.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Sounds like reasonable use of a Govt officials time. Nothing yet on the unemployment rate I take it?

Unemployment rate is 4.1%, down from 4.8% last January. There's your word on the unemployment rate -- continues to go in a positive direction.

Not sure what that has to do with anything here. Labor issues are the purview of the Senate labor committee. This inquiry is from the commerce committee. It is, in fact, the Senate commerce committee's charge to keep tabs on technology. They are literally doing their job here.

 

[Smartass]

There time and there's "time".

I have a 6S. About 3 months into ownership I took it in for a battery check and was told it was something like 95% healthy, but I had the symptons which would eventually lead to the recall.

After 18 months my battery was shot, yet an Apple diagnosis showed it at 83% health. I showed them the percentage visably going down in front of them, but their diagnosis said it was fine.

Batteries will degrade, but when their diagnosis tools are so wrong and they mislead customers, there will be rage. Additionally, if they are designing phones that perform and look wonderful, but to the extent that batteries degrade so fast, there is a design flaw and they should replace batteries.

And this is just another proof that Apple is intentionally planning obsolescence of their older iphones.

They say, that they will replace battery for 25$ to anyone that would like so. Everything is fine here, untill people actually go to Apple to replace their batteries and apple says "Well, based on our battery diagnostics tool (which obviously reads batteries in favor of Apples policy) your battery is still fine so no need to replace it!"
So what happenes then? Well Apple puts their customers into two positions:

1. Paying 80$ for the same crap battery that is already installed in their phones and it will eventually cause throttling after two years

or

2. Buying a new phone, since Apple does not allow users to disable the throttling option or even revert iOS back to older "unthrottled" versions

So basically, people are stuck with slow crappy iphones that are useless for everyday use and apple knows that well and is secretly counting on people to say "Well f%ck it i need a new phone, and since im used to an iphone, i might as well get another one."

 

[Christoffee]

It's actually £25, not £29.

The £ is recovering! (From 99c/99p app days)

 

[Narcaz]

Has anyone from Apple explained why the battery in the iPhone is only rated for half the charging cycles of the Apple Watch, iPad and MacBooks?

After their vague "apology", which was followed by even more lawsuits, their lawyers probably advised them to continue with the silent treatment. There is no good explanation for this. And it's another item on the surprisingly long list of unanswered questions about this issue. I hope the lawsuits will get us some answers.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I thought Trump & co wanted less regulation? Why are they getting involved with this - just let the market work itself out.

1. You are mistaking the executive branch, which the president is head of, with the legislative branch. The executive branch is not involved here. This is the senate. If you think Trump "controls" the senate then you haven't been watching very closely.

2. The commerce committee is asking questions. Asking questions is oversight, not regulation.

Agree the market should be allowed to work this out but the market is imperfect, which is why regulation exists. Even Republicans are not against regulation -- just over regulation. And oversight is core to the U.S. Constitution -- it's why there are 3 independent branches of the U.S. government. There is nothing offensive about a Senate committee asking common sense questions about a companies practices as long as it is for fact finding and not intimidation. I somehow do not think Tim Cook is cowering in his office. iPhone customers do deserve some better answers than we've been getting.

 

[WannaGoMac]

No one, but that's not the point. The phones shouldn't crash at random, and if they do then it's a hardware fault.

Also, this never used to happen on older iPhones, so why is it happening now? I believe they skimped on battery quality.

I had both a 3gs and 4s which both crashed as the battery aged. That's how I learned I needed to do a battery replacement

 

[OldSchoolMacGuy]

Questioning means little. A lot of people are reading much too far into this.

 

[apolloa]

Glad to see Apple being held accountable:

• Silently slipping in a throttling virus which made people's phones worse
• Only admitting to anything once being caught red-handed by users
• Giving some worthless corporate apology with no name behind it thinking it makes up for their shady behavior
• Charging people $29 for battery replacements when they should be free as a complete recall
• Not giving users an option in the settings to turn off the throttling if they want to risk it

Even through this whole fiasco... Apple STILL hasn't explained anything in specific technical terms how the battery throttling works! When does it begin to throttle the device and how much? At 90% battery capacity? 85%? 80%? Nobody knows!

Apple was intentionally vague in their apology response on how the throttling works because they know they f***ed up and don't want to give the lawsuits greater ammunition.

I hope Apple gets taken to the cleaners as a lesson, for themselves and others, not to be some shady corporation that thinks it can get away with anti-consumer behavior like this simply for higher profits.

I am beyond disappointed in Apple as they used to be a company people can trust. I'm glad that other people can see through this nonsense move by Apple and hope it influences them to take a more transparent approach in the future.

Don’t worry this is only the beginning...
These letters are the precursor of official investigations into Apples practices.

In a side note I’ve noticed the iPhone 8 I got yesterday has worst reception to my iPhone 6S, so I may be replying to your other thread yet.....

 

[Edsel]

My "battery" is failing too. I'm in my 60's, exercise and eat healthy, but I can't do all the neat stuff I could do when I was 20. Who can I sue under "Stop Planned Obsolescence"?

 

[apolloa]

I popped into the Apple Store in Cambridge yesterday to do just this and was pleasantly surprised - the battery on my iPhone 6 Plus passed the diagnostic test but the guy assessing it was happy to book me in for a £25 replacement, even though he insisted it won't fix the performance issues I've had since iOS 11 was installed.

IMO this was great and is exactly how Apple should always be treating their customers - I have had some pretty awful interactions with the Apple Store staff in the past, to the extent that I mildly dread having to go in. Good on them for once. The slight downer is that the battery won't be done for a month or so due (I guess) to demand...

Regarding those who think that an iPhone 6 shouldn't be supported because it is out of warranty, here in the UK retailers are obliged to repair, replace or refund faulty goods where it is reasonable to expect the goods still to be functional - and I think it reasonable to expect a top quality, £650 phone (other than its battery) to be working perfectly after 3 years.

So to be clear in the UK the Apple staff was still insisting that a new battery would NOT fix your slow iPhone....
I wonder, did they by any chance advise you to buy a new iPhone too.... because they flat out lied to you anyway by the looks of it!

 

[Piggie]

I never understand these type of things.

"Ask Tim Cook"

What's the point? He will lie.
Almost every single boss will lie if they can get away with it.

What I mean is not a blatant in your face lie, but something else, designed to put across some technical story from his point of view.

It's like health and safety asking a boss or manager about how well they look after employees.
they will say, what they need to say.

You need to speak to others to find out the truth.

 

[H3LL5P4WN]

Yeah, but who’d turn that setting ON? I.e., who’d want their phone to crash at random?

Apparently all of these jabronis filing lawsuits.

 

[maerz001]

Just let those phones shut down by itself and deny service since they're out of warranty, just like every other one does, and Apple won't be sued again.

But than sell also for half the price like other companies...

 

[Piggie]

If Apple are truth telling (and I tend to believe they are) and this is more about mitigating shutdowns when the system thinks there is no battery but actually it has battery just not enough for peak CPU... then I can't see any of this kerfuffle working out well for the consumer in the long run.

The point is, they can tell the truth AND be in the wrong at the same time.

They can say, yes, we did this to stop iphones crashing due to power draw on batteries that are not brand new. Let's say 12 months old.
And they may be able to technically prove with experts, what they did, does this.

However, whilst one could say "There, they are telling the truth"

The follow up question is then something like:
"Why did you fit such small batteries, with limited re-charge cycles into a sealed product, that would be expected to last at least 3-4 years before any need for a repair, that was due to manufacturing (not user damage)

All they can say is something like, it would have made the phone a little thicker/heavier.

There is zero reason why they cannot fit a much better battery.
Cost wise if nothing, perhaps $10 on a $800 phone

 

[OllyW]

The point is, they can tell the truth AND be in the wrong at the same time.

They can say, yes, we did this to stop iphones crashing due to power draw on batteries that are not brand new. Let's say 12 months old.
And they may be able to technically prove with experts, what they did, does this.

However, whilst one could say "There, they are telling the truth"

The follow up question is then something like:
"Why did you fit such small batteries, with limited re-charge cycles into a sealed product, that would be expected to last at least 3-4 years before any need for a repair, that was due to manufacturing (not user damage)

All they can say is something like, it would have made the phone a little thicker/heavier.

There is zero reason why they cannot fit a much better battery.
Cost wise if nothing, perhaps $10 on a $800 phone

It makes no sense to me why the Apple product that needs to be charged most of all has half the charge cycle capacity of all their other products.

 

[Jsameds]

It makes no sense to me why the Apple product that needs to be charged most of all has half the charge cycle capacity of all their other products.

I think you'll probably find the answer you're looking for in here...

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/02/earnings-4q-2017/

 

[RickInHouston]

Just let those phones shut down by itself and deny service since they're out of warranty, just like every other one does, and Apple won't be sued again.

Yes, have the expensive phone shut down after one year and see how many stay with the brand.

I mean, really? Do you think people will continue buying a PHONE when it only lasts a year? Do you think apple would realize this and come up with a solution? Oh, they did! Slow the thing down...

 

[Smartass]

My "battery" is failing too. I'm in my 60's, exercise and eat healthy, but I can't do all the neat stuff I could do when I was 20. Who can I sue under "Stop Planned Obsolescence"?

The correct analogy to what Apple is doing would be, that you were already born with some major disability in your body, but it only came out in full force after reaching 60.