U.S. Government to Investigate Sideloading and Web App Restrictions on iOS

[Deguello]

It's not a matter of making the app available and making it easy to find, it's a matter of fighting copycats, pirated copies, other app stores making deals with said copycats, and so on. Developers are at much higher risk of losing sales because their competitions will simply drown them out.

Developers already have to deal with some of that in the current app stores but at least it is a one-time thing to reject copycats by revoking their certificate and banning the developer accounts.

None of that will happen in the other app stores unless there's a dedicated team behind it as well but then other app stores will exist as well.

The said clones have no obligation to protect anyone's privacy, more willing to sell their private data, and so on. If they lose their account, they'll just make another one.

That's why firewalls, antimalware solutions exist on desktop platforms in the first place, we can block outgoing connections by default with any software we install. We can use sandboxed VMs as well. None of that exists on the mobile platforms but will have to be built if this goes through.

Yeah, it is a matter of making the app available and easy to find. Without that, none of the rest matters.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Nope, it doesn't.

Yes, it does. Anytime you poke holes in the walled garden to water the plants, the vermin are sure to follow. And with as many devices as Apple has in the wild, the vermin will be overflowing.

I expect any number of those “alternative” app stores that are forced upon us by government dunces and the squeaky wheel crowd will be hacked by the Russians or the Chinese or the North Koreans and identities compromised or malware injected into the downloads. It’s not a matter of if, it will be a matter of when. Again, if this is forced upon me, I won’t be downloading any apps from developers that use these alternative app stores. Having to worry about apple and their security on the App Store is bad enough, let alone worrying about apps from 2-3 App Stores. It’s bad enough worrying about it with macOS and Windows, I’ve felt relatively secure with iOS. All this so people who think a $5 app is too expensive can get it cheaper in the “free enterprise marketplace” or are simply looking for a way to screw Apple because they are personally offended at Apple’s “greed” in their eyes. Too bad the full weight of repercussions won’t fall on the people clamoring for this open market, but will end up falling on all of us.

An iPhone is not a PC or a Mac and I like it that way…so do the vast majority of users. I really do hope karma bites you people right in the ass.

 

[VulchR]

That’s likely the developer not the platform.

Many developers... I have never used a web app that I liked. There are other ways to achieve cross-platform capabilities, but perhaps that is a discussion for another thread.

 

[hasanahmad]

I am hearing rumblings on twitter that Apple if ruling is against them will allow a two tier system

Tier 1: Apple store walled garden where Apple will be responsible for vetting all apps and privacy

Tier 2: Apple allows sideloading, Apple does not vet apps and privacy transparency will be dropped which will allow companies like Facebook to Track you. on the setup screen you will acknowledge that you will not hold Apple legally responsible for any data breach.

You can only have a Tier 1 or Tier 2 device. You can only choose Tier 1 or Tier 2 once. If you choose Tier 2, You will need a new device to start using Tier 1 again but you can go from Tier 1 to Tier 2 but not go back to Tier 1.

 

[Deguello]

Yes, it does. Anytime you poke holes in the walled garden to water the plants, the vermin are sure to follow. And with as many devices as Apple has in the wild, the vermin will be overflowing.

I expect any number of those “alternative” app stores that are forced upon us by government dunces and the squeaky wheel crowd will be hacked by the Russians or the Chinese or the North Koreans and identities compromised or malware injected into the downloads. It’s not a matter of if, it will be a matter of when. Again, if this is forced upon me, I won’t be downloading any apps from developers that use these alternative app stores. Having to worry about apple and their security on the App Store is bad enough, let alone worrying about apps from 2-3 App Stores. It’s bad enough worrying about it with macOS and Windows, I’ve felt relatively secure with iOS. All this so people who think a $5 app is too expensive can get it cheaper in the “free enterprise marketplace” or are simply looking for a way to screw Apple because they are personally offended at Apple’s “greed” in their eyes. Too bad the full weight of repercussions won’t fall on the people clamoring for this open market, but will end up falling on all of us.

An iPhone is not a PC or a Mac and I like it that way…so do the vast majority of users. I really do hope karma bites you people right in the ass.

If I’m reading you correctly, you’re skeptical about third party app stores and won’t use them. Seems reasonable. A lot of people find things too risky while others are fine with those options.

 

[VulchR]

Perfect timing:

Apple Reports 2Q 2022 Results: $25.0B Profit on $97.3B Revenue, Best March Quarter Ever​

“but today a small number of dominant Internet platforms use their power to exclude market entrants, to extract monopoly profits…”

But today some companies are vigorously defending their highly successful business model that many consumers freely buy into, and enjoy, while other consumers exercise their choice not to.

 

[VulchR]

No, we don’t agree on that. If a third party App Store better met the needs of users then I wouldn’t care if its existence threatens the viability of the App Store. It just seems unlikely for something like that to occur, given how often people stick with easy to change defaults, for whatever reason.

The macOS App Store, like the Windows store, is an entirely different universe. For decades, the default on computers was to go to a company’s website to download the program. It’s also likely that computer users have something specific in mind when looking for an app, rather than for something to download to kill time on the bus or whatever. Apples and oranges.

And have no doubts about this: the people pressing to keep the iOS system closed want to make money from doing so.

OK. We disagree. You're wrong. I'm right.

 

[Boris Bronson]

I am hearing rumblings on twitter that Apple if ruling is against them will allow a two tier system

Tier 1: Apple store walled garden where Apple will be responsible for vetting all apps and privacy

Tier 2: Apple allows sideloading, Apple does not vet apps and privacy transparency will be dropped which will allow companies like Facebook to Track you. on the setup screen you will acknowledge that you will not hold Apple legally responsible for any data breach.

You can only have a Tier 1 or Tier 2 device. You can only choose Tier 1 or Tier 2 once. If you choose Tier 2, You will need a new device to start using Tier 1 again but you can go from Tier 1 to Tier 2 but not go back to Tier 1.

That sounds like a load of nonsense - for a start, you could choose a tier after a restore but acknowledge you’ll lose sideloaded apps.

 

[Psychicbob]

If I’m reading you correctly, you’re skeptical about third party app stores and won’t use them. Seems reasonable. A lot of people find things too risky while others are fine with those options.

I don’t think it’s just a case of not using 3rd party app stores. There is a theoretical risk of a side-loaded app being able to interact with Apple server architecture in a negative way, possibly because Apple have got loopholes. You’d quite rightly say that’s Apple’s fault and they should fix it. However, any risk assessment would find there is an increased risk to Apple server architecture being negatively affected, and subsequently, all iPhones etc being affected.

 

[Deguello]

I don’t think it’s just a case of not using 3rd party app stores. There is a theoretical risk of a side-loaded app being able to interact with Apple server architecture in a negative way, possibly because Apple have got loopholes. You’d quite rightly say that’s Apple’s fault and they should fix it. However, any risk assessment would find there is an increased risk to Apple server architecture being negatively affected, and subsequently, all iPhones etc being affected.

That risk already exists, though.

 

[Psychicbob]

That risk already exists, though.

It does, but the risk would massively increase

 

[I7guy]

Maybe the US government should just develop their own phone and ecosystem and let all comers use it for free. Let's put their money with their collective mouths are.

 

[I7guy]

You can just choose not to sideload if that a major concern for you. Nothing about your experience would have to change unless Apple implemented sideloading horribly.

Or you could choose Android? It's a viable alternative.

 

[Deguello]

It does, but the risk would massively increase

Perhaps, but I’m not sure “we’re possibly incompetent” is the strongest argument in favor of Apple’s position.

 

[Deguello]

Or you could choose Android? It's a viable alternative.

Just like going to android for bigger screens was a viable alternative. Petitioning Apple to change is also a viable alternative to accepting the status quo, isn’t it?

 

[Boris Bronson]

I don’t think it’s just a case of not using 3rd party app stores. There is a theoretical risk of a side-loaded app being able to interact with Apple server architecture in a negative way, possibly because Apple have got loopholes. You’d quite rightly say that’s Apple’s fault and they should fix it. However, any risk assessment would find there is an increased risk to Apple server architecture being negatively affected, and subsequently, all iPhones etc being affected.

If an app download to a single user device has the ability to cripple servers and infect every connected device, Apple’s in more trouble than we thought.

Some of the mental gymnastics Apple fans are going through must be seriously tiring. I mean y’all convinced X will happen when there is currently no precedent to the regulations governments are considering. No one knows how this is going to play out and the scaremongering is just hot air at this point.

 

[mzeb]

Apple, Google, and Microsoft all have a "walled garden mode" for each of the OS' they ship. Apple is the only one who doesn't let you turn it off and install third party apps (you can turn it off in the macOS). I can point to Apple's primary mobile competitor, Android, and point out that most apps are installed through the Play Store and walled garden mode stays enabled. It would likely be the same if Apple added the ability to side load. We as consumers can have it both ways so why not? The only benefits of just the walled garden is Apple having control.

 

[Boris Bronson]

Maybe the US government should just develop their own phone and ecosystem and let all comers use it for free.

Good grief.

 

[Psychicbob]

If an app download to a single user device has the ability to cripple servers and infect every connected device, Apple’s in more trouble than we thought.

Some of the mental gymnastics Apple fans are going through must be seriously tiring. I mean y’all convinced X will happen when there is currently no precedent to the regulations governments are considering. No one knows how this is going to play out and the scaremongering is just hot air at this point.

Just a realistic possibility due to Apple hasn’t had to worry about it so far. Who knows what holes in their architecture exist.

 

[bobenhaus]

The more viable solution would be for the EU to regulate Android so that it's actually "open" like Google claims. Then consumers can choose between centralized and decentralized options in phones.

Android already has a gatekeep type option for years since the beginning .

 

[Mitochris]

Wouldn't matter much in the grand scheme of things at the personal level. People who prefer the garden, can just get it from the app store. (something I'll do too). However, sideloading makes it easier to keep older versions of apps and re-install them if an update borks it (happens all the time these days)

well, will we? The point at the moment is that Apple has to maintain the App Store becasue it is the only source. But if there are plenty of alternatives, which are cheaper, Apple might pack it in or not maintain it. Also, some companies will not offer their app there anymore, due to costs. It's easy to say to not use others, but you might have to.

 

[4743913]

The developers will leave the App store in droves because they want to make a buck.

ah so your true motive reveals itself.

 

[I7guy]

Just like going to android for bigger screens was a viable alternative. Petitioning Apple to change is also a viable alternative to accepting the status quo, isn’t it?

Well the easiest option seems to be to regulate Apple to force it to deploy functionality that it believes is not in the best interests of what they are attempting to do. The best way is vote with your $$$.

 

[wschutz]

I am hearing rumblings on twitter that Apple if ruling is against them will allow a two tier system

Tier 1: Apple store walled garden where Apple will be responsible for vetting all apps and privacy

Tier 2: Apple allows sideloading, Apple does not vet apps and privacy transparency will be dropped which will allow companies like Facebook to Track you. on the setup screen you will acknowledge that you will not hold Apple legally responsible for any data breach.

You can only have a Tier 1 or Tier 2 device. You can only choose Tier 1 or Tier 2 once. If you choose Tier 2, You will need a new device to start using Tier 1 again but you can go from Tier 1 to Tier 2 but not go back to Tier 1.

You must be on drugs if you think that a private corporation cares for your privacy, your security and basically your well being.
Don't forget that private corporations for profit are out there... for profit.

What transparency you get today of the privacy that Apple 'provides' to you?
How do you know that Apple is not profiting from your data?

 

[ksec]

So, EU, US, UK, Canada, AUS, India, Japan, South Korea....... So which large, wealthy country will welcome Apple with open arms and Macrumors have yet to call out? um... none.

Oh wait. There is one. China. Even Macrumors are only calling for Apple to pull out its supply chain but not the market. Because CCP has been treating Apple fairly nicely.

Interesting.......