U.S. Senate Approves Anti-Discrimination Bill Endorsed by Tim Cook

[phillipduran]

This is where you lost me. I can't think of anything worse than an absolute morality; one based around some dogmatic, outdated morals that have no place in modern society.

To paraphrase Dawkins, I want a morality that is thought out and reasoned. Women's rights, kindness to animals, abolishing slavery -- these are all things that are entirely recent and have come about from logical discussion, not from Bible-bashing and verse-quoting.

Lets us the US as an example. . . Our enlightened non dogmatic society we currently have is just dandy isn't it? Take a field trip to Compton, Detroit or Chicago and tell me how wonderful things are now. Basing our society around the bible and the 10 commandments would benefit society no harm it.

A thought out and reasoned morality. . . based on what. The current thought and culture of the day? What could possibly go wrong with that? Put your faith in men and see where that takes you. It's too susceptible to changes in which way the wind blows. Mankind needs direction and it was given to him. Were choosing to turn from that and it has been to our detriment not our enlightenment.

 

[edk99]

Why should this even be controversial?

I'm curious to hear the Tea Party arguments against this. What will they say "I is my God given right to hate people who are different from me."

I can't think of a way to oppose this and not sound like a bigot.

Did you read the bill? I'm sure there are many,many more things in it then adding gay to the discrimination line.

 

[7709876]

Because gay people don't choose their sexuality, and no one should be discriminated against because of something they have no control over.

Paedophiles don't choose to be attracted to children.

Just sayin'

 

[keysofanxiety]

Yea tell that to the Malaysian Slave laborers who make Apple products nice and cheap for you to consume. :roll eyes:

Where's the bill to stop that discrimination?

Some people do love to exaggerate. Any electronic device you use will have come about from these so-called 'slave labourers'.

They work long hours for a pittance -- well, compared to Western wages -- but guess what? That's their work ethic. Asians don't see a problem in working hard, they're not as self-entitled as us.

And they're not slaves, they're employees. Working for Foxconn is a massive thing over there. They all want to do it.

 

[7709876]

Kids can't legally consent. They're not adults.

Gay people don't choose to be gay any more than you or I choose to be straight.

Is a gay virgin still gay?

 

[Demon Hunter]

I see astonishing hate and homophobia among small but vocal group.

Small and shrinking: bigots die off faster than new ones are born... Time is on the side of justice.

In the span of two sentences you managed to use the words hate, homophobia, bigots and die, but I fail to see how any of this equates to "justice".

 

[Davmeister]

Those 32 are holding the line against societal degradation. It's homosexuality today. It will be pedophilia tomorrow. Sexual liberation for 13 year olds and up. Transgender, sexual identification are already being pushed into our schools now. It has no place there, but there it is. Pick the bathroom you want to use in middle school. Encourage kids to "figure out" what their sexual identity is. This is a historical calling card of the collapse of society. History backs this up.

Genuinely upset that people feel like this - I hope you don't write comments akin to this thinking that people like me (a gay guy who had a very difficult time at school) won't ever see it, and if they do, won't be upset by it.

So saddening...to say that the very definition of what I am as a person counts towards societal degradation. Just glad I live in the UK, far away from you.

I hope there are others on this forum who feel for me, and not your opinion.

 

[quagmire]

Lets us the US as an example. . . Our enlightened non dogmatic society we currently have is just dandy isn't it? Take a field trip to Compton, Detroit or Chicago and tell me how wonderful things are now. Basing our society around the bible and the 10 commandments would benefit society no harm it.

A thought out and reasoned morality. . . based on what. The current thought and culture of the day? What could possibly go wrong with that? Put your faith in men and see where that takes you. It's too susceptible to changes in which way the wind blows. Mankind needs direction and it was given to him. Were choosing to turn from that it has been to our detriment not our enlightenment.

Separation of church and state...... Religion has no place in politics. If it does, which religion do you choose? How do we know which one is right? What about the people who don't believe in that religion or any religion?

We don't need to be slaves to a book that was written 1000's of years ago by people that said they talked to god. It's your right to believe and have that faith. But to have us be governed by it is 100% wrong.

 

[ChrisA]

Putting aside your religious slander for a moment, the "slippery slope" has nothing to do with imposed morality. It's an extension of the logic put forth by gay rights activists. By their own arguments, it is unlawful to prevent two men or two women from marrying. By what logical constraint do you limit other unions? The union of three men, the union of two women and a tree? When you throw out the biological underpinnings of natural marriage, what do you have left?

The only good way out of this is to get the government out of the picture. Stop recognizing marriage of any kind. The government can treat it all as a matter of contract law. Think of it that way can why can't four keen and there women decide to form a general domestic partnership where they share incomes and buy common property. Leave the concept of marriage out of it, that is for religious people to worry about

 

[j4zb4]

You do realize that the founding fathers intentionally created roadblocks in our constitutional system of government, right? The other option is tyranny. Tyrannical leaders who share your opinions are still tyrants.

Not all monarchy is the same as tyranny... A good monarch can be great for the people too...

And looking at this generation I feel democracy isn't meant for all... We need a good combination of democracy and monarchy... IMO...

 

[phillipduran]

Sadly enough companies are still in private hands and this leads to nothing but problems.

You need to start at square one and learn about American history. You're lacking some fundamental understanding of the design of this country and its resistance to government power and control of private lives and business.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Genuinely upset that people feel like this - I hope you don't write comments akin to this thinking that people like me (a gay guy who had a very difficult time at school) won't ever see it, and if they do, won't be upset by it.

So saddening...to say that the very definition of what I am as a person counts towards societal degradation. Just glad I live in the UK, far away from you.

I hope there are others on this forum who feel for me, and not your opinion.

I don't see where he said anything about you as an individual. Homosexuality is a behavior.

 

[keysofanxiety]

Lets us the US as an example. . . Our enlightened non dogmatic society we currently have is just dandy isn't it? Take a field trip to Compton, Detroit or Chicago and tell me how wonderful things are now. Basing our society around the bible and the 10 commandments would benefit society no harm it.

A thought out and reasoned morality. . . based on what. The current thought and culture of the day? What could possibly go wrong with that? Put your faith in men and see where that takes you. It's too susceptible to changes in which way the wind blows. Mankind needs direction and it was given to him. Were choosing to turn from that and it has been to our detriment not our enlightenment.

I'd rather not use the US as an example, because I live in the UK and possibly couldn't comment.

In answer to 'A thought out and reasoned morality. . . based on what': well, based on THE WORLD. Guess what: iPhones aren't mentioned in the Bible. Nukes aren't mentioned in the Bible. Planes aren't mentioned, medical advances aren't mentioned.

To say, or even imply, that you should base your morality on words written at a time that society was less advanced than that of 'Planet of the Apes' is simply ludicrous. It's utterly ludicrous -- completely preposterous that an intelligent person could suggest that.

Yes, mankind needs direction. Mankind's advantage is that it constantly strives to better itself, to advance beyond the norm, for the sum of its parts to exceed the value of the one. Logically, that does lead us in a direction -- the complete opposite of the Bible. If we'd stuck with the rules of the Bible, we'd be eating grubs and we'd be terrified to examine our own blood.

It's genuinely beyond my comprehension that anybody in 2013 can still share your view. I just don't get it.

 

[ChrisA]

And they're not slaves, they're employees. Working for Foxconn is a massive thing over there. They all want to do it.

Yes you are right, peole beating down the doors to get in, you can't quite call that slavery.

The problem is that people are being exploited and forced to in effect pay bribes to get in and then they are not prevented from leaving until they pay back the money they had to borrow to pay the bribe.

Apple could put an end to this next week. Add a clause in Foxcon's contract making them liable to any repayment of brides. Then Foxcon would very carefully stamp this practice out because it would cost them to much not to.

Same for enforced overtime and so on. If it were in the contract Foxcon would enforce it.

 

[phillipduran]

Separation of church and state...... Religion has no place in politics. If it does, which religion do you choose? How do we know which one is right? What about the people who don't believe in that religion or any religion?

We don't need to be slaves to a book that was written 1000's of years ago by people that said they talked to god. It's your right to believe and have that faith. But to have us be governed by it is 100% wrong.

Church and state are not separated. State is forbidden from establishing a national church. The people are free to choose and practice their religion including voting and demanding that their politicians uphold and respect their religious views. Religion is protected. Government is not.

Many times the age of the bible is brought up. Why is that relevant? People 1000 or 2000 years ago are people just as we are today.

 

[jlasoon]

Some people do love to exaggerate. Any electronic device you use will have come about from these so-called 'slave labourers'.

They work long hours for a pittance -- well, compared to Western wages -- but guess what? That's their work ethic. Asians don't see a problem in working hard, they're not as self-entitled as us.

And they're not slaves, they're employees. Working for Foxconn is a massive thing over there. They all want to do it.

There's always one grammar monkey.

Anyways Asians do care about this problem, I should know, I married one. And yes they are today's modern day neo-slave. Stop diluting yourself.

 

[keysofanxiety]

There's always one grammar monkey.

Monkey?

 

[rdowns]

Church and state are not separated. State is forbidden from establishing a national church. The people are free to choose and practice their religion including voting and demanding that their politicians uphold and respect their religious views. Religion is protected. Government is not.

Many times the age of the bible is brought up. Why is that relevant? People 1000 or 2000 years ago are people just as we are today.

If only you actually believed that. The fact is, you only believe that for YOUR religion.

 

[e-coli]

...only to die in the House. Because, you know, Constitution, freedom, Jesus, my guns.

 

[Orlandoech]

I don't really think it would be that interesting. Their reasons are strictly moral and for the most part obstructionist.

And completely oblivious to real life, they still live in fair-tale land with their white crayons coloring zebras with their children while perpetuating their ridiculous belief that a white crayon on white paper makes a better zebra then using a black crayon on white paper (not literally).

 

[keysofanxiety]

...only to die in the House. Because, you know, Constitution, freedom, Jesus, my guns.

And don't forget …*

 

[Nunyabinez]

You do need to be careful about claiming that religious exemptions should not exist. I know people hate slippery slope arguments, but we really don't want government telling religion what they should believe any more than we should have religion telling government what to enact into law.

Religious organizations have long held the ability to discriminate on a number of things. For example, a religious university can require that faculty belong to that religion, if they so desire.

However, I am in full support of this law. What difference should it make to a business what a person's sexual orientation is? Even if you take the perspective that a behavior is wrong (don't want to get into that), that behavior is not relevant to the work place.

Should I be able to not hire people who are living together if I think that it is a sin to have sex outside of marriage? That has nothing to do with the person's ability to do the job.

And smart managers should realize that cutting off any portion of the applicant pool is foolish, because the best workers might happen to be in that part of the pool.

This law will help enforce what is a smart business practice in the first place. Not to mention that it simply is morally wrong to deny someone the right to earn a living just because you disagree with their choice of lifestyle.

 

[Orlandoech]

If only you actually believed that. The fact is, you only believe that for YOUR religion.

loll... owned! love it! so true! high five!... another high five!

 

[Demon Hunter]

I'd rather not use the US as an example, because I live in the UK and possibly couldn't comment.

In answer to 'A thought out and reasoned morality. . . based on what': well, based on THE WORLD. Guess what: iPhones aren't mentioned in the Bible. Nukes aren't mentioned in the Bible. Planes aren't mentioned, medical advances aren't mentioned.

To say, or even imply, that you should base your morality on words written at a time that society was less advanced than that of 'Planet of the Apes' is simply ludicrous. It's utterly ludicrous -- completely preposterous that an intelligent person could suggest that.

Yes, mankind needs direction. Mankind's advantage is that it constantly strives to better itself, to advance beyond the norm, for the sum of its parts to exceed the value of the one. Logically, that does lead us in a direction -- the complete opposite of the Bible. If we'd stuck with the rules of the Bible, we'd be eating grubs and we'd be terrified to examine our own blood.

It's genuinely beyond my comprehension that anybody in 2013 can still share your view. I just don't get it.

So based on the evidence that "iPhone" is not mentioned in the Bible, its teaching on morality and universal truth is discredited? Huh?

iPhones are like grass, friend, they are cool one moment and thrown into the furnace the next!

 

[phillipduran]

If only you actually believed that. The fact is, you only believe that for YOUR religion.

My statement was general and can be applied to all religions. In fact, you could even modify my statement to apply to any political view and my statement still stands. I believe that even homosexuals, the core issue of this discussion have every right to lobby their viewpoint as would any religious group. I made no statement in that post to suggest otherwise.