U.S. Senator Raises Questions About Security and Privacy of Face ID

[newellj]

Franken is engaging in either hypocrisy or self-delusion, or both, on a galactic, almost mythological scale.

If there were even a trace of honesty and sincerity in his letter, he would be calling on the federal government (or, better, since he's in a position to do so) introducing legislation to purge the national database of scannable, face-recognition-ready, "face data" images captured through the federally-mandated "secure" drivers license program and other government photo IDs.

 

[star_nerdy]

Why all the negative comments? These questions are 100% spot on, even if we know the answers to some of them. Those of you who have never had your identity stolen, great. Those of us that have, love hearing a reassuring answer to questions like these.

Honestly, some people are jerks. Franken knows his stuff and he's spot on. HP and Microsoft had issues a few years ago with their facial recognition software because they failed to account for people of color. Their system basically couldn't function properly if you're hispanic or black and have a dark background.

That said, I wouldn't use this system to unlock my phone. This tech is scary. Apple will have our fingerprints and facial scans and they will be linked to our Apple ID and credit cards.

But nope, people want to attack the messenger.

 

[Ntombi]

Agree. And most of the other issues were not due to any deliberate malice, just oversights.

That doesn't make them less problematic. Implicit bias affects every day life, in tech and otherwise, and there needs to be a conscious effort on the part of companies and organizations to counteract it. If Apple (or HP, or Google) want their tech to work for most people, they can't rely on pure goodwill.

I wish Al Franken would devote as much time and resources concerning the Equifax or OPM security breach.

Like many of us, he can multitask and worry about more than one thing at a time. He and the rest of that and other subcommittees are demanding answers from Equifax, and both a criminal and civil investigation.

OMG.. China and Russia are hacking our sensitive systems and this dumb comedian is complaining about Apple.

Again, multitasking is a pretty crucial skill for a United States senator. He and others are still working on the Russia investigation, as they should be.

 

[supercoolmanchu]

It is notched off. Its called dead space. Apple gives you the option for dead space if you want it when watching videos.
[doublepost=1505387531][/doublepost]
No one knows if he has brought up these questions with other companies. The news media doesn't report everything that happens in congress if its not a pressing issue. Behind closed doors he may have been doing plenty. I think in this case he should ask these questions especially in the wake of the Equifax scandal.

So you’re going with the theory that he’s only secretly competent at his job behind closed doors? That he even understood what online credit processing companies do, and had the foresight to ask meaningful questions and offered valuable oversight in protecting the financial security of taxpayers? But hasn’t tried to take any shred of political credit for this brilliance?

So then are we agreeing that he’s been either a total moron or cynical attention whore or both in public?

His previous comedy work was kinda before my time, but it must have been something truly magical for some of you to give this guy such reverence.

 

[markscl]

The real problem with this is that Franken is taking on the role of the news media. It is not the government's responsibility to be Consumer Reports. These are the types of questions that should be addressed when the government is the customer negotiating a purchasing contract, not when a product is being launched to the general public. What's next? An electronic device version of the FDA holding up new devices for 12 years and costing hundreds of millions of dollars in studies before consumers are allowed to purchase them?

 

[ravenstar]

Why all the negative comments? These questions are 100% spot on, even if we know the answers to some of them. Those of you who have never had your identity stolen, great. Those of us that have, love hearing a reassuring answer to questions like these.

The negativity is because he didn't make a big deal about asking these questions of other phone manufacturers with their toy facial recognition systems. And his questions seem to show a lack of understanding of elements of the technology which has been widely described already, such as how the FaceID models are stored and processed. I for one expect the person who's responsible for overseeing privacy in this technology to have much more of a clue about it. The lack of comprehension in his questions is very disturbing.

 

[H3LL5P4WN]

Franken's a fairly level-headed guy. I don't see this as being unreasonable. And honestly, Apple's response would just help bolster FaceID's uptake and calm skeptics.

...except for my one coworker, who refuses to use Touch ID, Apple Pay, or pay his bills online.

 

[ravenstar]

No one knows if he has brought up these questions with other companies. The news media doesn't report everything that happens in congress if its not a pressing issue. Behind closed doors he may have been doing plenty. I think in this case he should ask these questions especially in the wake of the Equifax scandal.

Or just maybe we have scandals like Equifax because the people responsible for overseeing these companies really don't understand what it is they're reviewing. Assuming that he's doing his job "behind closed doors" when there are massive public failures by companies to protect privacy doesn't make any sense.

 

[Inframan]

Not to stick up for the senator but he does ask one very good valid question. Where did Apple get 1 Billion photos of people to test with? 1 Billion would be 1/7th of the worlds population. How do you get photos of 1 Billion people? Google Images? LMAO

 

[itguy06]

He has been an extremely good senator for nearly a decade and has been leading the charge to keep net neutrality.

Franken is a fantastic senator and he has a valid point.

Where was he when Microsoft did Windows Hello (biometric authentication)?
Where was he when Google did this with adding fingerprints to Android?
Why has he not taken the credit bureaus to task?

Plenty more examples of his cherry picking.

And he's pretty inept too. I nearly fell out of my chair with the absurdity of the "diversity" BS question. Of course they need to train it on a diverse set of faces. If they only did whites then non whites would have a hard time using it. If they only did blacks then non blacks would have a hard time. Only asians non asians would have a hard time. Get the point - it's diverse because it has to be. Not because some dolt senator is trying to fuel the race fire.
[doublepost=1505392877][/doublepost]

Not to stick up for the senator but he does ask one very good valid question. Where did Apple get 1 Billion photos of people to test with? 1 Billion would be 1/7th of the worlds population. How do you get photos of 1 Billion people? Google Images? LMAO

Google Images, Twitter, Facebook. All have APIs you can sign up for to scrape the feeds. Most include pictures. Then you run it through something like Apache NiFi to parse that data out and analyze it in some Big Data thing like Hadoop.

Many companies have just this sort of thing going on and use it to gauge "sentiment" and other nonsense. So be careful who you friend/like/whatever and what you post.

 

[hetrigger]

OMG. A, He is a comedian. How can we take him seriously? B, of course something racial had to come up.

C, and most importantly, what happened to personal accountability? Apple isn't forcing you to buy this. They aren't forcing you to use face ID. You have the "freedom" to not buy it.

I can understand a complaint if it was mandatory that all people had to own one. This is far from it.

Thank you!!! My wife and I were just talking about this. Of all the companies out there, I feel Apple is the most diverse. I would add, face ID is probably more secure than that of say....gooberment emails and certain candidates. I won't use it to unlock my iPhone (I don't use touch ID to unlock it), I do use it on come apps that have the option. And that is how I would do it with X.

 

[supercoolmanchu]

Why all the negative comments? These questions are 100% spot on, even if we know the answers to some of them. Those of you who have never had your identity stolen, great. Those of us that have, love hearing a reassuring answer to questions like these.

Is it 30-50% of Americans’ tax identity details and credit/banking security are now completely exposed? Basically a worst case data privacy scenario. Would mean most future iPhone X customers are already screwed. Way to go Al, he’s really got our backs on the whole privacy thing.

His only focus has been on flashy gizmos, with zero effort on the real meat and potatoes stuff. Things that would require him reading past page 1 headlines of the NYT. The entire Senate technology committee should be replaced for Equifax, including Franken who embarrassingly is the ‘ranking member’. It’s amazing people are still trying to defend him, must have been some good jokes he told before.

 

[RogueWarrior65]

In the immortal words of Dr.Leonard McCoy, "I'd give real money if he'd shut up."

 

[i75.bjc]

My current iPhone has TouchID. I don't use TouchID.
When I get an iPhone with Facial Recognition, I won't use Facial Recognition.
Problem Solved!

Apple has provided (from my undeerstanding) a working phone with or without the use of FR.
Quite frankly, that solves the dilemma Senator Franken is trying to create and is pontificating about.
Is Senator Franken fishing for a campaign donation?

 

[840quadra]

His job also includes oversight of online data collection and privacy, which is where Equifax happened entirely during his tenure. How many other major online privacy breaches have happened under the watch of Franken? But within 24 hours, he’s press releasing obvious questions about a device feature that doesn’t ship for 6 weeks.

When people use the argument ‘he’s just doing his job’ to support him, it logically cancels because Franken clearly hasn’t been doing his job.

What exactly do you expect he or any other individual senate member to do?

He oversees a committee, he is not president, nor does he have any more voting power than any other single senate member.

Keeping that in context, he has done a fair (not perfect) job of keeping such issues in the spotlight. He is also working to block Equifax (and other large corporate entities) from being protected from legal actions from those impacted by the breech.

He’s got his issues, but if you feel someone else can do a better job, Please vote them in. We clearly need more members of the senate to take IT / cyber / and technology more seriously.

 

[macass]

This will be a terrible method for those who have disabilities and facial damage...

Why? It makes no difference. It simply scans the face in front of the phone it makes no judgement on the face as you have. It seems that everyone is out to Help the "poor" disabled like they can't live a normal life and have to be coddled. As someone who is disabled, "STOP".

 

[usarioclave]

Keeping that in context, he has done a fair (not perfect) job of keeping such issues in the spotlight. He is also working to block Equifax (and other large corporate entities) from being protected from legal actions from those impacted by the breech.
.

So yeah, what authority does he have then, really?

 

[macass]

This is a good question asked by the Senator. Face ID will give access to the device when it is simply held up to an owner's face. No longer is a physical connection required between the device owner and their device. I, too, would like to know what safeguards are in place... if any.

If a bad guy with a gun tries to get me to unlock my phone with my finger or my pass code or sticking my face up to it he is going to get my cooperation. so how this is a valid argument I can not imagine.

 

[JetTester]

I don't recall seeing Al Franken's letter to Samsung on the same subject when they released facial recognition. Did I miss it?

 

[saintstryfe]

He's asking valid questions. Yes, almost all of these have answers from the keynote, but I don't think its appropriate to ask for a single outline of the answers to his questions. And yes, he focuses on apple because everyone knows almost no one uses Windows Hello or any other biometric security - Apple's is by far the most well used. I seriously doubt anyone at Apple will mind making this list. I appreciate Senator Franken's close eye on the problem and wish other Senators would be as concerned.

 

[Gasu E.]

Al should stick to his bad comedy routines...

I think you are wrong. This is great for Apple. Everyone has (or should) have questions like this, and most likely Apple has some very good answers. This is a much better way of Apple getting the message across that this is a secure technology than just making some marketing claims at a promotional event.

Franken is doing Apple a big favor. He is probably aware of that. This is a very friendly act.
[doublepost=1505396839][/doublepost]

And all of the answers to his questions are already available for anyone who knows how to use the Google or has staffers who do. The uncomfortable truth is Al's either not all that bright or a preening showman...or both. I'm going with both.

Via Google, you can get any answer you want, whether right or wrong, to any question you ask. This isn't for the benefit of the Senator; it's for the benefit of the American people to have an official record of Apple's responses. Not a bunch of contradictory Google ****!

 

[mlrproducts]

What a putz. Where is he on Equifax????

 

[MacBergin]

Where was Al on Equifax? Someone shake him and wake him up to the real security issues.
Maybe equifax should be using iphones to store our data.

 

[NoNothing]

I think you are wrong. This is great for Apple. Everyone has (or should) have questions like this, and most likely Apple has some very good answers. This is a much better way of Apple getting the message across that this is a secure technology than just making some marketing claims at a promotional event.

Franken is doing Apple a big favor. He is probably aware of that. This is a very friendly act.
[doublepost=1505396839][/doublepost]


Via Google, you can get any answer you want, whether right or wrong, to any question you ask. This isn't for the benefit of the Senator; it's for the benefit of the American people to have an official record of Apple's responses. Not a bunch of contradictory Google ****!

Every time Al Franken opens his mouth on politics/privacy, something not to smart comes out. He looks for sound bites to get him press but happily ignores really issues like EquiFax.
[doublepost=1505398399][/doublepost]

Honestly, some people are jerks. Franken knows his stuff and he's spot on. HP and Microsoft had issues a few years ago with their facial recognition software because they failed to account for people of color. Their system basically couldn't function properly if you're hispanic or black and have a dark background.

That said, I wouldn't use this system to unlock my phone. This tech is scary. Apple will have our fingerprints and facial scans and they will be linked to our Apple ID and credit cards.

But nope, people want to attack the messenger.

That's because the messenger is asking questions already answered. That's because the messenger often says things making him sound very out of date and not on top of anything in technology. I'm amazed Al Franken keeps getting re-elected. Then again, his comments are par for the course for the sound-bite politicians (and reality stars) we have running this country now.

 

[jinnj]

Seems to me that, with a token made from a very complex mathematical points from the owner's face, it's much more secure than a passcode of four or six numbers, or however many points they use from your fingerprint. They said it was about a one in a million at the keynote. That would be good. The data stays on your phone, in the Secure thingie. Hasn't been breached yet, as far as I know.

The whole issue lately has been what a police officer/TSA/etc can make you do so they can get access to your phone. Only a judge can force you to give up your passcode. If the cops attempt the passcode too many times the device lockdown and keeps extending the cool down period with each incorrect attempt. The Enclave has not been hacked and the only method right now requires a cost that is beyond the reach of any local police department.