U.S. Senators Claim Apple Has Avoided Paying Billions in U.S. Income Taxes Ahead of Tim Cook Testimony

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, May 20, 2013.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot


    Apr 12, 2001

    A Senate subcommittee has released a 40-page memo accusing Apple of not paying billions of dollars in federal taxes through "extensive tax-avoidance strategies".

    Apple CEO Tim Cook, CFO Peter Oppenheimer, and Apple's head of tax operations Phillip A. Bullock will appear in front of the U.S. Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigation tomorrow. The company issued a statement earlier today in a preliminary defense against the Subcommittee's accusations.

    The full forty-page memorandum (PDF) goes into some detail on the company's tax strategies, and we will likely hear much more about this at tomorrow's hearing.

    Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the comment thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All MacRumors forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

    Article Link: U.S. Senators Claim Apple Has Avoided Paying Billions in U.S. Income Taxes Ahead of Tim Cook Testimony
  2. burnside macrumors 6502

    Jun 8, 2010
    We all gotta pay taxes. If Apple doesn't want to pay them to the Feds, then maybe they should setup shop next door to Foxconn and not in Cupertino.
  3. Four oF NINE macrumors 68000

    Four oF NINE

    Sep 28, 2011
    Hell's Kitchen
    This corporate tax avoidance by the biggest FORTUNE 500 corporations has got to stop. Figure it out, Washington!
  4. Starflyer macrumors 6502a


    Jan 22, 2003
    That's like saying I avoided paying thousands of dollars in sales tax by not buying that new SUV.
  5. hobo.hopkins, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013

    hobo.hopkins macrumors 6502a


    Jul 30, 2008
    The investigators are still not claiming that Apple broke any laws - just that they took advantage of tax loopholes. There's an easy way to "fix" this problem: fix the tax code. Expecting companies to not take advantage of loopholes and blaming them for exploiting them is just ridiculous and doesn't actually solve anything.
  6. RBMaraman, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013

    RBMaraman macrumors 65816


    Jul 25, 2002
    Prospect, KY
    Meet Apple's new CEO: Tim Crook.

    Seriously, there are really two major issues here: The US tax code is in need of a serious overhaul to close loopholes and align practices, and Apple's practices need to be further investigated globally for any potential illegal activities. Yes, Apple appears to have broken no laws here, while doing an excellent job of showing how greedy, unethical and dishonest a company can be and still be loved by the consumer.

    I spent almost four years working at Apple, watching as the company moved from a customer focused culture under Steve Jobs to a focus on reduction in quality, cutbacks on customer service and anyways that can be thought of to increase profits under Tim Cook.

    I love my Apple products enough to voice my concerns with Apple's current leadership.
  7. applesith macrumors 68030


    Jun 11, 2007
    Doesn't the IRS check for these kinds of things when companies file every year? Considering how money hungry the government is, you'd expect them to pay closer attention to large international public companies such as Apple.
  8. SMDBill macrumors 6502

    Apr 12, 2013
    Ironically, if they are still within the letter of the law, the problem is in Washington. The same people who setup laws with ways to sidestep those very laws are the ones laying blame when companies actually take advantage of said laws.

    I don't like it any more than anyone else, but the problem has existed for decades and only now they are trying to address it? Makes me think it took a debt crisis to make congress accountable enough to lay blame on the companies following laws passed by congress? Infinite loop.
  9. Undecided, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013

    Undecided macrumors 6502a

    Mar 4, 2005
    Blame the game not the player. It amazes me that the politicians setup these various structures and then are shocked when people adapt their behavior to maximize their benefit. GET RID OF THE CORPORSTE TAX AND TAX ALL SOURCES OF INCOME AT THE SAME RATE. We have the highest corporate tax in the world. Just lowering it to be on par with the rest of the world would suffice.
  10. cgk.emu macrumors 6502

    May 16, 2012
    Yes, the IRS is doing a real bang-up job these days...
  11. Undecided macrumors 6502a

    Mar 4, 2005
    And people wonder why jobs leave the US...
  12. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    Los Angeles
    To be fair, I didn't pay billions of dollars in federal taxes either. :cool:

    It's easy to conclude that corporations are cheating the rest of us taxpayers by using all kinds of loopholes, but perhaps they are doing their job when they use whatever legal methods best serve their shareholders.

    On the other hand, what's legal seems to depend on IRS rulings and obscure language in the tax code, not on clear-cut distinctions between what's allowed and what's disallowed. Add in the complications of taxes for a multinational company and it's hard for any of us to second guess what the accountants do and what the auditors conclude about it!
  13. japanime macrumors 68000


    Feb 27, 2006
    Note to senators: Do your job first. Close the loopholes that Apple and the others are LEGALLY using to their advantage. Until then, you haven't earned the right to whine and moan.
  14. j4zb4 macrumors 6502a


    Oct 15, 2011
    If I were you, I wouldn't be wasting my precious time on a website focusing on a company I hate/disrespect so much... I am sure that you don't own a single apple product since you view apple in such low light, no one can be such a hypocrite... Surely...!!
  15. roland.g macrumors 603


    Apr 11, 2005
    One mile up and soaring
    So Obama and the U.S government are so broke, have spent all of our tax dollars, don't like the sequester, and can't wrap their heads around the idea of cutbacks rather than increased spending, and have somehow come up with the brainchild that their easy out solution is to target the one company with the largest cash reserves in an effort to win their own Powerball. Sadly enough even if they charge Apple with tax evasion and force them to pay these "billions" they owe, they'll be broke again in no time cause all Obama wants to do is spend spend spend!!
  16. 3282868 macrumors 603

    Jan 8, 2009
    The IRS has loopholes in their system, then uses tax payer money in going after the companies that use those loopholes. How about fixing those loopholes?

    Ban lobbyists while we're at it.
  17. burnside macrumors 6502

    Jun 8, 2010
    Don't get me wrong, I blame the strict and unfair tax laws setup here in the States, but at the same time, if I gotta pay my fair share of taxes, it's only right that big time corporations do the same.
  18. zioxide macrumors 603


    Dec 11, 2006
    Unfortunately that will never happen because corporate america has congress in their back pockets.
  19. Starflyer macrumors 6502a


    Jan 22, 2003
    How much more is fair? $5B? $10B? $100B?
  20. burnside macrumors 6502

    Jun 8, 2010
    Yup. That's where it all starts.
  21. drewyboy macrumors 65816

    Jan 27, 2005
    You guys are freak'n idiots thinking apple should pay more. WHY?! These politicians, either side I don't care, don't know crap. They don't know how to run this country, so they go on a witch hunt to make apple look horrible. Tax havens... how? As far as I've seen in Apple's reports is that tens of billions of dollars are held overseas in the countries that those items were BOUGHT in. They've already PAID those countries taxes. Why the F should they have to pay AGAIN? Just to have the money in the US so the greedy government can double dip?

    Maybe ppl need to get their head out their arses and realize that the society we live in.. it's called a GLOBAL economy. Borders don't matter anymore in exchange of products. Stop living like it's 1950.

    So for all those saying apple should pay their fair share... what is that? Is 6 Billion not enough? that's 1/40 of all corporate taxes collected. All money held off seas is held in the places that the items were bought.

    No "gimmicks" except on the politicians side trying to score constituent points.
  22. burnside macrumors 6502

    Jun 8, 2010
    Whatever their tax percentage rate is. Sorry, I'm not Apple's accountant.
  23. Aragornii macrumors 6502

    Jun 25, 2010
    It's funny how few people get the irony that these obnoxious senators are beating up on Apple for following the tax laws they themselves wrote.

    If the obnoxious trolls Carl Levin and John McCain don't like the way Apple structures their business, all they have to do is pick up a pen.
  24. MikhailT macrumors 601

    Nov 12, 2007
    The problem is that you cannot bitch at a company for doing its job to follow the tax codes to the fullest to remain competitive against all companies and to raise profits at all costs. If the tax codes allows it legally, then don't bitch about companies using it to the fullest.

    You want companies to follow the laws, fix it first so that they cannot get around it. Very simple concept to follow, even for the US congress.

    What the...? Apple is a global company, it's not solely an American company, it is not entitled to bring in profits in US only.

    Apple didn't shift their profits, they made the profits there in the first place.

    In the last quarter, over 65% of Apple's revenue are from international markets, US is not entitled to any taxes on those revenue until the company actually brings it in US.

    BS, if those questionable tax strategies are legal, then make it illegal and go after all companies doing it.

    So, they have admitted the problems are within their tax codes. How about fixing the US tax code first and then go after all companies?

    Do not single out one company for doing and staying competitive with other tech companies who are doing exactly what Apple is doing. Google, Samsung, everybody are doing the same thing.
  25. Plutonius macrumors 604


    Feb 22, 2003
    New Hampshire
    Of course they do but Apple broke no laws.

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