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U.S. Senators Claim Apple Has Avoided Paying Billions in U.S. Income Taxes Ahead of Tim Cook Testimony

As much as I agree Apple needs to pay taxes like everyone else, they can't be blamed for learning all the rules to get around as many taxes as possible.... it's a disincentive to make money here (or spend it here, for that matter). They have paid their US taxes as required the way they're set up, not to mention they've shown initiative to bring back US engineering jobs, improve off-shore working conditions, and drive product innovation to create more environmentally friendly items without compromising their quality. It's too bad none of that matters in the eyes of the government.

I realize Apple is much larger than a small business . . . but coming from someone who's worked with a number of small businesses, the taxes imposed nearly kill out small businesses if they dare taste success... Profits become very difficult to keep, and growth just incurs penalties / more taxes.
 
j4zb4 said:
If I were you, I wouldn't be wasting my precious time on a website focusing on a company I hate/disrespect so much... I am sure that you don't own a single apple product since you view apple in such low light, no one can be such a hypocrite... Surely...!!
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iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro all sitting here with me. I also worked for Apple for almost four years, and saw the company that I loved and respected slowly be dismantled and witnessed a culture shift from total focus on the customer to complete focus on profitability. I love Apple's products, and I love the company enough to speak out on the horrible leadership that is currently in place.
 
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The answer to jobs, taxes, etc. is to simply make it easier to do business in the US. Fewer regulations, lower taxes, and less exposure to absurd extortionist lawsuits. No highest corporate tax rate, no Obamacare, no ADA, and on and on.
 
Small White Car said:
I also did not pay more taxes than I was required to.

This makes me greedy, unethical and dishonest? I disagree, but it's nice to know you think I'm slime.
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Did you purposefully create shell companies offshore to shift your assets and lower your taxable income?

From a shareholder standpoint, Apple is almost god-like! Kudos to them for their ingenuity! But from the standpoint of a citizen, that pays my fair share and sees others struggle to stay afloat because services they rely on are cut because of tax revenue declines, a company that uses tactics like this when they can clearly do their part where I have a problem.
 
drewyboy said:
Wow, do you simply not comprehend what's going on? They HAVE paid every single dime that the US government is entitled to. What is going on here is the Government is playing the mad kid in the corner because Apple WONT bring the money the made over seas here. Why should they? If they have 50 billion in china, they're gona leave it there and pay suppliers, invest in facilities, and etc. There is absolutely no reason they need to bring it home. So Zioxide, they are not exempt, they are paying every penny. So what's the problem here? Why are you so mad? They do pay taxes here with the business they do here. Read up on GLOBAL ECONOMY.
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I'm not mad at all. I don't know where you get that from.

What's the point of this whole circus? More clowns (I mean "senators") doing everything they can do to avoid doing their actual jobs? The way they are calling this hearing it makes it seem like Apple is avoiding paying taxes on business done in the US. What happens out of the country is none of their damn business. I agree with you there.
 
RBMaraman said:
Yes, Apple appears to have broken no laws here, while doing an excellent job of showing how greedy, unethical and dishonest a company can be and still be loved by the consumer.
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Companies, following capitalism, are under no obligation to be "ethical" or follow any other vague subjective rules for how to conduct business. They are only responsible for one thing, to make money, and follow the law. If you don't like what a company does, you can either implement a law for them to follow, or not buy from them. Those are the only two ways to effect the way a capitalist company does business, because those are the only two things they are responsible for caring about.

And trust you me, when I filed my taxes I didn't say "Sure, keep what you have, I'm sure you need it Mr. IRS". No, I filed my taxes and looked at all reasonable ways to lower the amount I gave the feds, within the laws that exist. You say I don't have to pay taxes on student loan interest? Great! I'm going to take that, and I'm not about to voluntarily give it up just because someone else who doesn't have loans says that it's unethical.

Now, do I think the laws should be changed? I do indeed. I think that the types of loopholes being discussed should be closed, but that is for the Federal Government and its citizens to close, not for a company to voluntarily guess at.

Parting shot: If someone approached me next tax season with an odd ball obscure way to keep another 5% of my money, and it was legal, I'd take it. If I'd take it, I'm not about to hold someone else to a different standard.
 
japanime said:
Note to senators: Do your job first. Close the loopholes that Apple and the others are LEGALLY using to their advantage. Until then, you haven't earned the right to whine and moan.
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Well when campaigns are largely funded by corporate entities this tends to happen. Add to that the party centric ignorant sheep voting system with people that refuse to educate themselves of the trash they vote in.
 
Why don't we lower the corporate tax rates to reward them for keeping their money in American banks?

Why don't we cut spending?

We have a debt burdon because Washington is out of control; not because Apple does what it's supposed to do as a corporation looking out for its shareholders.
 
RBMaraman said:
iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro all sitting here with me. I also worked for Apple for almost four years, and saw the company that I loved and respected slowly be dismantled and witnessed a culture shift from total focus on the customer to complete focus on profitability. I love Apple's products, and I love the company enough to speak out on the horrible leadership that is currently in place.
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The goal of any company is to make the most profits they can, without breaking the law obviously.

If they don't keep making more and more money they are not able to continue growing. And do remember, the fact that they continue growing to make more profits, directly creates more jobs and moves the economy.

The job of companies is not to be the good guys that see for their country, that's the job of the government. If the government thinks companies like Apple should pay more money in taxes, it's their job to make new laws. But it's not logical to expect companies to do this out of charity or pure good nature.

Because, even when companies make "good actions", their final objective is making more money.
 
RBMaraman said:
Did you purposefully create shell companies offshore to shift your assets and lower your taxable income?

From a shareholder standpoint, Apple is almost god-like! Kudos to them for their ingenuity! But from the standpoint of a citizen, that pays my fair share and sees others struggle to stay afloat because services they rely on are cut because of tax revenue declines, a company that uses tactics like this when they can clearly do their part where I have a problem.
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And what, pray tell, is the difference between you taking a tax deduction and Apple doing this? And are you claiming that if you found a new and improved and legal way to avoid paying more taxes, you wouldn't take it?

The problem is that the law allows it, not that individuals or companies work within the law to keep money. It's like trying to ask water not to flow downhill. If you want water to flow different, change the terrain.
 
And in other news... IRS investigating Congressional members over Billions of dollars of income they have avoided paying taxes on using perfectly legal deductions and tax avoidance strategies.

This really sounds like the Congressional Kettle calling the pot black.
 
For whatever reason, this reminded me of the movie Iron Man 2, where the senator wants the Iron Man suit because US Government needs it and Tony says no, it`s mine.
 
sbrhwkp3 said:
Why don't we lower the corporate tax rates to reward them for keeping their money in American banks?
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Because apparently rich people, or in this case, rich companies, don't need their money. They should just pay more taxes (%) because they have more.

It sometimes seems illogical, but as you say, the government must makes big companies prefer having their money in their country than elsewhere. And if what it takes to taxing them less, I think it is worth it.
 
Earendil said:
Companies, following capitalism, are under no obligation to be "ethical" or follow any other vague subjective rules for how to conduct business. They are only responsible for one thing, to make money, and follow the law. If you don't like what a company does, you can either implement a law for them to follow, or not buy from them. Those are the only two ways to effect the way a capitalist company does business, because those are the only two things they are responsible for caring about.

And trust you me, when I filed my taxes I didn't say "Sure, keep what you have, I'm sure you need it Mr. IRS". No, I filed my taxes and looked at all reasonable ways to lower the amount I gave the feds, within the laws that exist. You say I don't have to pay taxes on student loan interest? Great! I'm going to take that, and I'm not about to voluntarily give it up just because someone else who doesn't have loans says that it's unethical.

Now, do I think the laws should be changed? I do indeed. I think that the types of loopholes being discussed should be closed, but that is for the Federal Government and its citizens to close, not for a company to voluntarily guess at.

Parting shot: If someone approached me next tax season with an odd ball obscure way to keep another 5% of my money, and it was legal, I'd take it. If I'd take it, I'm not about to hold someone else to a different standard.
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There's a huge difference between someone saying "Hey, did you know that you can cut 5% off your taxable income by purchasing an energy efficient water heater for your house?" and someone at Apple saying "Hey, did you know we can not pay tens of billions of dollars in taxes by setting up shell corporations in these strategic countries, transferring assets and securities to dummy corporations within these shell companies, and shifting these assets around to each other every few years?"

I completely agree that the tax loopholes need to be closed and more reforms and checks/balances put in place! I also admit that I certainly look for ways to lower my taxable income! However, plenty of companies do not use any of the tactics Apple uses.
 
RBMaraman said:
There's a huge difference between someone saying "Hey, did you know that you can cut 5% off your taxable income by purchasing an energy efficient water heater for your house?" and someone at Apple saying "Hey, did you know we can not pay tens of billions of dollars in taxes by setting up shell corporations in these strategic countries, transferring assets and securities to dummy corporations within these shell companies, and shifting these assets around to each other every few years?"

I completely agree that the tax loopholes need to be closed and more reforms and checks/balances put in place! I also admit that I certainly look for ways to lower my taxable income! However, plenty of companies do not use any of the tactics Apple uses.
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As I see it, Apple doesn't want to pay taxes for bringing their money they made outside of the USA to the USA.

So they went out to find where to put it outside the USA. They must have contacted the Ireland government, told them they wanted to bring billions of dollars to a bank in their country, and they made an arrangement to pay less taxes there.

It is an over-simplified explanation by my part, I'm sure. But do tell me why something along these lines is incorrect? Why should they be forced to bring their money to the US if they made that money outside the US?
 
HarryPot said:
The goal of any company is to make the most profits they can, without breaking the law obviously.

If they don't keep making more and more money they are not able to continue growing. And do remember, the fact that they continue growing to make more profits, directly creates more jobs and moves the economy.

The job of companies is not to be the good guys that see for their country, that's the job of the government. If the government thinks companies like Apple should pay more money in taxes, it's their job to make new laws. But it's not logical to expect companies to do this out of charity or pure good nature.

Because, even when companies make "good actions", their final objective is making more money.
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I completely agree with everything you've said. I should've done a better job in most first post by saying that Apple certainly doesn't deserve the majority of the blame here. The real problem is these governments that have allowed these loopholes to remain open. They are who everyone should be blaming, and who I'm sure Tim Cook will blame during his testimony.

Now, I do believe that the more money a company makes, the more they should do to spread that wealth. That means investing in more jobs, providing pay raises to employees, and giving to charitable causes and foundations. When I worked for Apple, you couldn't get them to donate a penny to any charity, and that was so disappointing to me. Yes, they are under no obligations to give anything away. But, when you're out there constantly touting how "life changing" your products are and how they've helped so many people, then you turn down the chance to give money to a charity that's doing the same thing and asking for fractions of fractions of fractions of a penny on the dollar to help them, it makes you think that these guys really aren't good people.
 
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drewyboy said:
You guys are freak'n idiots thinking apple should pay more. WHY?! These politicians, either side I don't care, don't know crap. They don't know how to run this country, so they go on a witch hunt to make apple look horrible. Tax havens... how? As far as I've seen in Apple's reports is that tens of billions of dollars are held overseas in the countries that those items were BOUGHT in. They've already PAID those countries taxes. Why the F should they have to pay AGAIN? Just to have the money in the US so the greedy government can double dip?

Maybe ppl need to get their head out their arses and realize that the society we live in.. it's called a GLOBAL economy. Borders don't matter anymore in exchange of products. Stop living like it's 1950.

So for all those saying apple should pay their fair share... what is that? Is 6 Billion not enough? that's 1/40 of all corporate taxes collected. All money held off seas is held in the places that the items were bought.

No "gimmicks" except on the politicians side trying to score constituent points.
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Isn't that a big part of the issue here, ie that Apple allegedly haven't paid taxes due in other countries?

Here in the UK Starbucks, Google and Amazon have been in the news recently for not paying UK corporation tax. In the case of Starbucks they had massive revenue in the UK, but through clever accounting they didn't make a dime in profit, so despite their millions in revenue, their corporation tax bill was pretty much zero. And the reason Starbucks UK didn't make any money? They paid Starbucks US all that money for things like cups and licensing of the logo.

I don't know the details of the US case against Apple, but I'd be pretty sure they're not paying all the UK tax they should otherwise should be, by virtue of being based in Ireland for tax purposes.

Having said all that, I do agree its up to governments to close all the loopholes that allow big companies to do all of this.
 
I'd rather Apple have the money than the government.

Wonder why companies don't want to open shop in the USA when greedy politicians are ready to drag your CEO in.:rolleyes:
 
These blow hards in congress need to ****. And maybe get out of congress and get a real job that provides real value to the county. :rolleyes:

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iChrist said:
Yes, the people who receive millions in campaign contributions from these companies will "figure it out".

I will start holding my breath..... now!

:rolleyes:
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Just curious which politicians Apple the Corporation gives money too. :confused:
 
Four oF NINE said:
This corporate tax avoidance by the biggest FORTUNE 500 corporations has got to stop. Figure it out, Washington!
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So is Apple being singled out or are they going after every large corp? Because they are all doing it...
 
burnside said:
Don't get me wrong, I blame the strict and unfair tax laws setup here in the States, but at the same time, if I gotta pay my fair share of taxes, it's only right that big time corporations do the same.
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Do you take deductions for student loan/mortgage interest? How about new home discount?
Is it unfair to choose an IRA over a 401k because you potentially pay a lower rate now than when you use it?
 
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