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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
7,813
6,715
Except Microsoft was said, by the court, to be a monopoly.

Well that is wrong. That means Mac are a monopoly too. If I am on a Mac, I am free to get a Windows PC. If I am on a Windows PC, I am free to get a Mac (or use Linux in either case). A true monopoly is when you have ZERO choice. As in my ISP and Cable provider. The ONLY choice I have is to move.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
This is not going to go anywhere because it's not a Monopoly.

actually it is a monopoly, it's just not necessarily an illegal one. just like Apple had a monopoly on smart tablets for a while when the iPad first came out but it was not illegal because it was based on the fact that folks weren't buying what the competition was selling

this lawsuit is saying that Apple shouldn't legally be allowed to restrict where we get apps from, basically that they should jailbreak their own iOS and even make it child's play to sideload without all the nonsense of using Xcode etc so that folks can buy via Cydia and such.
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Not exactly. The notion of a monopoly is about consumer choice across a market... not within a single provider.

it's already been judged that iOS devices are not a market which is why Apple doesn't have to allow Android etc on their devices
[doublepost=1529341365][/doublepost]
Except Microsoft was said, by the court, to be a monopoly.

because the market was personal computers and they had like 95% of the share. but that wasn't really the issue. the issue was that they used that 95% to try to force OEMs to load their internet browser and only their browser.
 
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iisdan

macrumors 6502
Feb 19, 2010
319
331
1: you can download apps outside of the store
2: they should be able to dictate what software runs on their device, you can go to android if you want something else
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,421
Well that is wrong. That means Mac are a monopoly too. If I am on a Mac, I am free to get a Windows PC. If I am on a Windows PC, I am free to get a Mac (or use Linux in either case). A true monopoly is when you have ZERO choice. As in my ISP and Cable provider. The ONLY choice I have is to move.

That's not how legal terms work. They have meanings. Mac is not a monopoly.

You can buy many Android apps in the Amazon appstore instead of Google Play, so that you can also install them in Sailfish or BB10.

Okay. I still don't see how this relates to the topic at hand.

actually it is a monopoly, it's just not necessarily an illegal one. just like Apple had a monopoly on smart tablets for a while when the iPad first came out but it was not illegal because it was based on the fact that folks weren't buying what the competition was selling

this lawsuit is saying that Apple shouldn't legally be allowed to restrict where we get apps from, basically that they should jailbreak their own iOS and even make it child's play to sideload without all the nonsense of using Xcode etc so that folks can buy via Cydia and such.
[doublepost=1529341246][/doublepost]

it's already been judged that iOS devices are not a market which is why Apple doesn't have to allow Android etc on their devices
[doublepost=1529341365][/doublepost]

because the market was personal computers and they had like 95% of the share. but that wasn't really the issue. the issue was that they used that 95% to try to force OEMs to load their internet browser and only their browser.

I know. I was simply pointing out that the rules for monopolies and everyone else are different.
 

cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
17,011
4,972
Okay. I still don't see how this relates to the topic at hand.
- You would likely be able to buy one app license from Amazon or others that would work on iOS, Android, BB10, and Sailfish
- You would might eventually be able to buy one game license from Steam that would work on Mac, Windows, Linux, iOS, and Android (and hopefully forks).
- It opens up the market for other smartphone OSes like Sailfish and BB10.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,421
- You would likely be able to buy one app license from Amazon or others that would work on iOS, Android, BB10, and Sailfish
- You would might eventually be able to buy one game license from Steam that would work on Mac, Windows, Linux, iOS, and Android (and hopefully forks).
- It opens up the market for other smartphone OSes like Sailfish and BB10.

And already underpaid devs can now be even more underpaid. Everybody wins!
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
7,813
6,715
That's not how legal terms work. They have meanings. Mac is not a monopoly.



Okay. I still don't see how this relates to the topic at hand.



I know. I was simply pointing out that the rules for monopolies and everyone else are different.

And how is Windows a monopoly? I have a Mac right here. I am not forced to use Windows like I am forced to use Spectrum at my current residence.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,421
And how is Windows a monopoly? I have a Mac right here. I am not forced to use Windows like I am forced to use Spectrum at my current residence.

That's not what a monopoly is. The Court ruled that Microsoft was a monopoly due to it having 95% of the market. That's not illegal. What was illegal was using that power to kill Netscape.
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Not the fault of license portability.

So you're arguing that having a single product sell and be able to be used on multiple OS isn't lowering the amount devs make? Ludicrous.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
7,813
6,715
That's not what a monopoly is. The Court ruled that Microsoft was a monopoly due to it having 95% of the market. That's not illegal. What was illegal was using that power to kill Netscape.
[doublepost=1529342486][/doublepost]

So you're arguing that having a single product sell and be able to be used on multiple OS isn't lowering the amount devs make? Ludicrous.

That is absolutely what a monopoly is. Only one single choice. It is a regional monopoly where I have absolutely ZERO choice for any other ISP. That is the entire definition of a monopoly. 100% in my region is greater than 95% for Windows.

Just because something is used more does not make it a monopoly. As I said, I have a choice between Mac or PC when I want to get a new computer. I have NO choice as to who my ISP is.
 
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Michael Goff

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Jul 5, 2012
13,329
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That is absolutely what a monopoly is. Only one single choice. It is a regional monopoly where I have absolutely ZERO choice for any other ISP. That is the entire definition of a monopoly. 100% in my region is greater than 95% for Windows.

Just because something is used more does not make it a monopoly. As I said, I have a choice between Mac or PC when I want to get a new computer. I have NO choice as to who my ISP is.

So you're arguing with the Supreme Court about the legal definition of monopoly. Have fun with that.
 

cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
17,011
4,972
So you're arguing that having a single product sell and be able to be used on multiple OS isn't lowering the amount devs make? Ludicrous.
No, I am saying people should not have to buy more than the amount of licenses that they need.

You can have thousands of games installed on a handful of machines with Steam, but can only run one at a time, which is also wrong.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,421
No, I am saying people should not have to buy more than the amount of licenses that they need.

You can have thousands of games installed on a handful of machines with Steam, but can only run one at a time, which is also wrong.

If you want to play a single licensed game in multiple places at the same time, get multiple licenses. If you buy one games disc, it's the same way. Stop acting entitled.
 
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cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
17,011
4,972
If you want to play a single licensed game in multiple places at the same time, get multiple licenses. If you buy one games disc, it's the same way. Stop acting entitled.
Not the same license concurrently. Different licenses.
 

iZac

macrumors 68030
Apr 28, 2003
2,609
2,831
UK
I know this is not a fair comparison and I’ll be evicerated for taking a side, so I’ll try to just state a neutral observation...

It’s interesting that Apple offer a Mac App Store but also allows users to directly purchase/download apps from other sources, at their own risk and by unchecking a restriction in the system prefs.

I know the Mac App Store came a lot later and is a lot less lucrative for Apple, but it’s funny to see Apple offer the consumer that freedom on one platform, and offering a much safer, but limiting option on another.
 
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