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U.S. Warns Apple Tax Probe in Europe Could Set 'Undesirable Precedent'
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Nothing wrong with setting up a company in Ireland and paying taxes there. The sketchy part is apple selling patents (that used resources from USA to make ) to the Irish subsidiary for cheap. That results in very little taxes collected in USA. That Irish subsidiary then makes millions from licensing fees for all that patented tech in the iPhone, with zero taxes from that going to USA.
Aka double Irish Dutch sandwich
Yes and this interpretation is why this is a dangerous precedent to set. If a company is always at risk that they will owe back taxes because some politician decides to change the rule, companies will have a hard time estimating their cost of doing business. this will bring uncertainty and risk which means less investment as the horde cash to protect against these activities. Bad business all around.
There's also
It is not a politician changing the rule, but the people in charge of overseeing the proper application of the rules determining that there was a violation.
Sure... after all those dollars pay the right amount of taxes in the places where they are generated
Apple, especially through its CEO, has repeatedly made statements and taken actions supportive of government interventions. This time, it may be their turn to pay the piper else the guns will be pointed at them. Who cares about some stinking ex post facto.
Psst, hey Apple, I think some of the US citizens want their piece of the action too, or maybe they're really trying to defend your interests?
Psst, hey Apple, I think some of the US citizens want their piece of the action too, or maybe they're really trying to defend your interests?
Yes by running away doing nothing and taking the own economy down. Great resolution!
Taxes are a responsibility of the one who has to pay them, not the country who is collecting them. Ireland may offer a lower tax (probably taking advantage of a loophole within EU legislation) that companies may take or not... but it is the company's responsibility face any consequences of that action as it is under EU legislation (thank goodness for that supra-national tax entity that the US government blames the EU for... thanks to that the EU countries have decent roads... among other services).
If Apple thinks Ireland has any responsibility on this... then Apple should sue Ireland if they think so (I doubt it they will do it because they will admit they chose Ireland for that reason). But in any case, Apple will have (I hope so) to pay all unpaid taxes (including interest), maybe face a fine as well, and at the same time, Ireland will be forced (and possibly fined too) to change its legislation to close this loophole for once and for all.
But what matters here is that we have two topics: Apple may be forced to pay due taxes and Ireland may be forced to change its legislation. Making Ireland pay for Apple's taxes is impossible because I doubt Ireland has signed any liability agreement with Apple...
All dirty laundry needs to be hung out in sunlight. May be bad for Apple and US companies I don't know. But what we do know, is a lot of shady sh*t is going on and the US citizen as well as citizens around the world are being sh*tted on by shady tax dealings.
Bring on the sunlight, bring in spotlights, let's clear the air once and for all.
Bring on the sunlight, bring in spotlights, let's clear the air once and for all.
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That would be a EU-US trade problem, not an Irish taxation problem.
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yeah but that's the question. If the EU has no jurisdiction over the taxes of a given country, what legislation can they use to enforce what they want it to be?
It's called "bait and switch."
When you switch right before attempting the sale, it's deception. When you do it 12 years later, it's thievery.
Whatever the legal technicalities may be, this is unethical. If the EU had really cared, they should have done something 12 years ago, not try to steal $8bn from them today.
When you switch right before attempting the sale, it's deception. When you do it 12 years later, it's thievery.
Whatever the legal technicalities may be, this is unethical. If the EU had really cared, they should have done something 12 years ago, not try to steal $8bn from them today.
Who violated the rule. Apple? There position is that they paid the taxes based on the law. So, if true, the violation was by parliament and the politicians that passed the law. Or are you trying to say that Apple should have told parliament, "hey I know you passed a law so I only have to pay 1.5% taxes, but I know that's wrong so I will 10%, because otherwise I will have violated some rule in Brussels that says I should not follow a law set by parliament."
America protecting its own, no surprise there, if Trump was president he would just nuke Europe.
Thankfully Europe isn't bullied by giant American corporations and will rip apart and fine where appropriate if they don't play by the rules.
I just love the nativity of posters on here about why the EU is investigating Apple.
Thankfully Europe isn't bullied by giant American corporations and will rip apart and fine where appropriate if they don't play by the rules.
I just love the nativity of posters on here about why the EU is investigating Apple.
It could be just a deal, not part of a law.
In any case, if it's an error of the Irish government, they can just apply a tax adjustment, like everywhere.
I actually agree with Apple on this.
EU is a trade arrangement, but not a fiscal arrangement. They do not have a deal like USA where each state is supposed to have a balanced budget so the unfair distribution of taxes from rich states to poor states is politically acceptable to its citizens.
EU has each country running deficits WITHOUT printing its own localized money. They should require balanced budgets and allow other factors to distribute some funds from strong actors to weak actors until the economies can normalise. It was designed by politicians not accountants or intellectually honest economists.
Of course that would require fewer transfer payments and less taxation to accomplish. In dozens of countries essentially all at once.
The dramatic improvement in growth, employment, and value for each currency unit would be well worth it, with some "dislocation and transition issues". They survived WW II, with our help. This would require a similar commitment.
EU is a trade arrangement, but not a fiscal arrangement. They do not have a deal like USA where each state is supposed to have a balanced budget so the unfair distribution of taxes from rich states to poor states is politically acceptable to its citizens.
EU has each country running deficits WITHOUT printing its own localized money. They should require balanced budgets and allow other factors to distribute some funds from strong actors to weak actors until the economies can normalise. It was designed by politicians not accountants or intellectually honest economists.
Of course that would require fewer transfer payments and less taxation to accomplish. In dozens of countries essentially all at once.
The dramatic improvement in growth, employment, and value for each currency unit would be well worth it, with some "dislocation and transition issues". They survived WW II, with our help. This would require a similar commitment.
Nice try - they're politicians! Take your choice: you can go by Mark Twain's definition, or you can do rudimentary Wikipedia research which shows that the EC president is elected, and the members' profiles call them 'politicians!'
No, and this wasn't my point. Apple did absolutely NOTHING wrong here! They tried to minimize their spending and they are obliged to, since they ultimately have to answer to their shareholders.
I would have done the exact same thing - any day.
But the European Union is in the verge of changing their taxation laws. And someone seems to not like this too much... Guess everyone wants a piece of that fresh warm apple pie...
Meanwhile in the UK we will look forward to all future Apple products costing 10-20% more due to the pound tanking against the dollar. Thanks Brexitiers.
Anyway with regards to Apple and Ireland - if thats what was arranged between Apple and Ireland then fine, if anyone needs to be punished for dodgy tax arrangements then Ireland should be - after all they allowed it to happen.
Sometimes I have the impression that the UK believes they belong more with the US than with Europe.