Uber and Lyft plus tipping

[BigMcGuire]

If you ever get a chance peruse the "Uber" message boards and see what the drivers say about tipping. They are absolutely ruthless with downgrading folks who don't tip. Mine has also gone down after experiencing a dirty/filthy car or the ride was less than five or ten minutes.

It actually soured my approach to tipping. I know not all of them are like this, but the vocal few was enough for me. I still use them, but I only tip if the ride was above and beyond. If my rating goes down, it goes down.

Saw that in the forums as well... Am I the only one offended by that? Seems incredibly offensive to me to downgrade someone just because they don't tip. I'm already against tipping but this really pushes me over the edge. (I tip but feel very obligated to do so).

 

[rhett7660]

Saw that in the forums as well... Am I the only one offended by that? Seems incredibly offensive to me to downgrade someone just because they don't tip. I'm already against tipping but this really pushes me over the edge. (I tip but feel very obligated to do so).

Some of the comments about a short ride and down grading people was also prevalent in different conversations. Not that it would matter, as long as I don't get banned, and if they want to keep it up and down grade people who don't tip. They may find the pool of people wanting to use their app "might" go down.

I wonder if Uber is aware of this practice by its drivers?

 

[AlliFlowers]

Everyone should have to work a service job so they understand the importance of tips. You don't have to do it for long. Just long enough to really get it.

And yes, this country needs to get its collective act together and not allow anyone to pay below minimum wage.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Everyone should have to work a service job so they understand the importance of tips. You don't have to do it for long. Just long enough to really get it.

And yes, this country needs to get its collective act together and not allow anyone to pay below minimum wage.

Trust me I've done some terrible paying jobs. I left school at 15.

None of them had tips.
If you are paying for a meal, the price should be sufficient that the business can pay a decent wage. Not relying on the generosity of others.
Then if the customer feels the service warrants it, they can still give a tip.

 

[Videomanmac]

Everyone should have to work a service job so they understand the importance of tips. You don't have to do it for long. Just long enough to really get it.

And yes, this country needs to get its collective act together and not allow anyone to pay below minimum wage.

I tip based on service. I don't believe in handouts.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Trust me I've done some terrible paying jobs. I left school at 15.

None of them had tips.
If you are paying for a meal, the price should be sufficient that the business can pay a decent wage. Not relying on the generosity of others.
Then if the customer feels the service warrants it, they can still give a tip.

Agree completely.

I think that this is one of those "cultural differences" that is thrown into stark relief on either side of the Atlantic.

That said, I think that @AlliFlowers has a point, not so much re tipping (as that is less of a cultural thing in Europe, given that even grim service jobs usually pay wages one can live on) but re the argument that it is a good life experience to have worked in a horrible service job, just to experience it, and realise that for some people, opportunities and life chances mean that things won't get much better.

I worked as a chambermaid in Germany one summer in my undergrad days, and - while German service jobs were very well paid by European standards at that time - it was still an eye-opener for someone (me) from a protected, cultured, middle class background to see - and experience - how some people had to live life.

Suffice to say that I have been quite sympathetic to - and understanding of - the lot of chambermaids ever since. And yes, that is one place, where I do leave tips, - sometimes very generous ones - and have done so across three continents for the past three decades.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Agree completely.

I think that this is one of those "cultural differences" that is thrown into stark relief on ever side of the Atlantic.

That said, I think that @AlliFlowers has a point, not so much re tipping (as that is less of a cultural thing, given that even grim service jobs usually pay wages one can live on) but re the argument that it is a good life experience to have worked in a horrible service job, just to experience it, and realise that for some people, opportunities and life chances mean that things won't get much better.

I worked as a chambermaid in Germany one summer in my undergrad days, and - while German service jobs were very well paid by European standards at that time - it was still an eye-opener for someone (me) from a protected, cultured middle class background to see - and experience - how some people had to live life.

Let us say that I have been quite sympathetic to - and understanding of - the lot of chambermaids ever since. And yes, that is one place, where I do leave tips, - sometimes very generous ones - and have done so across three continents for the past three decades.

Yes - it is a HUGE pain to me when people treat those in difficult positions like that badly (waitresses/waiters especially). I haven't had the opportunity to work in a service job like that but I see enough of those people being treated horribly that I try to go out of my way to be an opposite force.

My lowest job? Worked Wal-Mart TLE in 2005 for $5.40/hr in Wisconsin. How anyone is supposed to afford rent and live life on that is beyond me. Didn't have great experience with customers there either...


I wonder if putting up the DND sign (do not disturb) at a hotel is helping or hurting chambermaids... Most of my work trips are 3-4 days so to help I usually put up the DND so they have one less room to clean, but if they're paid per hour... is that hurting or helping them?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Yes - it is a HUGE pain to me when people treat those in difficult positions like that badly (waitresses/waiters especially). I haven't had the opportunity to work in a service job like that but I see enough of those people being treated horribly that I try to go out of my way to be an opposite force.

My lowest job? Worked Wal-Mart TLE in 2005 for $5.40/hr in Wisconsin. How anyone is supposed to afford rent and live life on that is beyond me. Didn't have great experience with customers there either...


I wonder if putting up the DND sign (do not disturb) at a hotel is helping or hurting chambermaids... Most of my work trips are 3-4 days so to help I usually put up the DND so they have one less room to clean, but if they're paid per hour... is that hurting or helping them?

Sometimes, you do need to put up the DND sign.

Last week, in Nairobi, I had a preliminary interview for a position I had applied for; I had taken leave from my current position, in order to be available for this, and I explained to the hotel staff that I had stuff to do, and that I really would prefer not to be disturbed until lunch time after which the room was theirs; they were most understanding, - I was a regular guest, and at that time, I staying there for the best part of a week, and yes, I did leave a very generous tip.

Re rates of pay: In Germany, I was paid a proper, taxed, wage per month (a wage one could live on and have a decent social life on; I also got tips - not least from Americans - but also because, even though I was a spectacularly useless chambermaid, I could chat with guests and was confident and articulate and full of useful and useless information which some thought worth tips) not per hour.

It never crossed my mind to ask how the staff in Nairobi were paid. They were competent, welcoming, and polite and professional, and I would have no hesitation in recommending any of them.

 

[hallux]

I see nothing wrong with the state refusing to allow businesses pay less than the minimum wage; nobody should be paid less than the minimum wage - otherwise, it is exploitation and/or slavery

To be clear, at the end of the day nobody's total pay as claimed to the state is less than minimum wage. When I worked in a restaurant, when a server clocked off their "service" rate to do prep work they were paid at least minimum wage for the prep work hours. When they clocked out of the service rate if they did not claim enough in tips to at least cover minimum wage for those hours worked the business was responsible for making up the difference. Now - if the server claimed ONLY enough to cover the minimum wage or all of their tips was up to them but they were also taxed on whatever they claimed. I bet you can't guess how much they usually claimed I know one server that would rake in at least $150 in tips in a 9 hour shift on tables on a Friday.

 

[yg17]

My Uber customer rating dropped on a recent LA trip from 4.9+ to less than 4.6, and I’m certain the reason is tipping. However, some of the cars that turned up in LA were actually dirty, and on one trip I had to share the back seat with plastic bags full of college coursework. Why should I tip in those circumstances? In London and Lisbon where I’ve used the service previously the Ubers are typically immaculate. Take pride in your work and the tips will always come.

I'm actually fairly certain that Uber drivers can't see who tipped, they just see at the end of the day they earned $X in tips.

That being said, some drivers are jerks and will dock you for no real reason. I had a sub 5 star rating as a rider long before in-app tipping was even a thing, and I have no idea why. I have never been drunk in an Uber, I have never made any sort of mess, I have never made a driver wait. Perhaps the fact that I can sometimes be an introvert and would rather sit in the backseat and screw around on my phone rather than share my life story with some random stranger makes me come off as rude. Or maybe because I didn't offer some people a cash tip, who knows.

Anyways, my overall take on tipping is this: Yes, it sucks. Yes, almost everyone hates it. And yes, restaurant owners should pay a decent wage. However, it is what it is, and as long as it is part of US culture, if you don't tip, you're a dick. And "I don't tip in my home country, why should I tip in the US?" isn't a valid excuse either. Part of traveling is adhering to the culture and social norms of the place you're visiting.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Anyways, my overall take on tipping is this: Yes, it sucks. Yes, almost everyone hates it. And yes, restaurant owners should pay a decent wage. However, it is what it is, and as long as it is part of US culture, if you don't tip, you're a dick. And "I don't tip in my home country, why should I tip in the US?" isn't a valid excuse either. Part of traveling is adhering to the culture and social norms of the place you're visiting.

What I don't get about the US - one of the many things I don't get - is this fatalism about your culture and a complete lack of interest in trying to change it. On a number of things - the second amendment (shrugged off as something that is just the way it is), tipping, the ghastly prison system, and so on.

Why tolerate a business model (and worse) seek to export it where the staff aren't paid for their work by the managers or owners, but there is an expectation that paying customers - already paying for the good or service - should also pay the wages by way of tips of those who serve them?

Part of the problem is when you start exporting such dreadful "cultural and social norms" because of the size, cultural reach and economic power of the US. Keep such culturally specific horrors at home, please.

A decade or so ago, the appalling - and morally egregious - concept of unpaid interns was unknown in Europe, but now, unfortunately, unscrupulous employers are attempting to introduce such practices in areas deemed attractive - such as the media; it will take government intervention (which should be the case in the US) to eradicate this pernicious practice.

Again: I don't care how culturally specific this is: If you employ staff, pay them properly. Anything else is exploitation.

 

[yg17]

What I don't get about the US - one of the many things I don't get - is this fatalism about your culture and a complete lack of interest in trying to change it. On a number of things - the second amendment (shrugged off as something that is just the way it is), tipping, the ghastly prison system, and so on.

Why tolerate a business model (and worse) seek to export it where the staff aren't paid for their work by the managers or owners, but there is an expectation that paying customers - already paying for the good or service - should also pay the wages by way of tips of those who serve them?

Part of the problem is when you start exporting such dreadful "cultural and social norms" because of the size, cultural reach and economic power of the US. Keep such culturally specific horrors at home, please.

A decade or so ago, the appalling - and morally egregious - concept of unpaid interns was unknown in Europe, but now, unfortunately, unscrupulous employers are attempting to introduce such practices in areas deemed attractive - such as the media; it will take government intervention (which should be the case in the US) to eradicate this pernicious practice.

Again: I don't care how culturally specific this is: If you employ staff, pay them properly. Anything else is exploitation.

Why hasn't it changed? Because it would require legislation abolishing the lower minimum wage for tipped employees, and that's nearly impossible. The issues in the US go far beyond how we pay waiters. You have one political party that doesn't give two ***** about the lower and middle class. You have another political party who says they do, but doesn't actually have the balls to do anything about it when they get in power. Both of them will gladly kiss a lobbyist's ass and do anything they want if enough money is waved in front of them. We could change the system by voting for the right people, but voting against your best interests is as American as baseball and apple pie.

Also, when it comes to waiters, they might not want the current system to change. A very good waiter or bartender at a busy, pricey restaurant may make a lot more with tips than they would if they got paid above the standard minimum wage without tips. Ultimately, if the people who are paid with tips don't want it to change, then it's probably not going to change.

And TBH, the more I think about it, I don't even mind the tipping system in restaurants. It does help encourage good service (I've had some crappy service in foreign restaurants that would not fly in the US). If we got rid of the tipping system, menu prices would increase 15-20%. The end result would be the same. I take issue with tipping being expanded into further industries where it didn't exist before, like Uber.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

If you take a cab uber or lyft and get normal or above service, IMHO you should at least tip even just a buck. I drove just three times for uber and people are so cheap, is disgusting. Picked one woman up from a supermarket and helped her load my car up with groceries. I then helped her unload it too. Which was on my time since ride was done. It was a measly 5 buck fair. Couldn’t even give me a dollar.
[doublepost=1529690312][/doublepost]People like to tip waiters in my opinion because they are handling your food and are the difference between what a good meal and a bad meal could be (second only to the cook). If they all worked on salary, why would service be any better? It would be average. I’ll get the food out when it’s ready not check back and see if I can get you something else or hurry a little if u say you’re in a rush

 

[yg17]

If you take a cab uber or lyft and get normal or above service, IMHO you should at least tip even just a buck. I drove just three times for uber and people are so cheap, is disgusting. Picked one woman up from a supermarket and helped her load my car up with groceries. I then helped her unload it too. Which was on my time since ride was done. It was a measly 5 buck fair. Couldn’t even give me a dollar.

See, that is something I would absolutely tip for. She's taking up time that you could be using for another paying fare. But I shouldn't feel obligated to tip when I have no luggage and am on the street waiting for the driver as they pull up. If the driver never has to leave the drivers seat, I'm not sure why that's deserving of a tip.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

See, that is something I would absolutely tip for. She's taking up time that you could be using for another paying fare. But I shouldn't feel obligated to tip when I have no luggage and am on the street waiting for the driver as they pull up. If the driver never has to leave the drivers seat, I'm not sure why that's deserving of a tip.

IMHO, it’s a **** job with **** pay. Giving a buck to someone is just good karma in my book. Rich people tend to be worse. Can spend god knows how much on all night babysitting, dinner and room at fancy NYC hotel and can’t give the driver three dollars? These people are gonna tip waiter and bartenders all weekends.

 

[yg17]

IMHO, it’s a **** job with **** pay. Giving a buck to someone is just good karma in my book. Rich people tend to be worse. Can spend god knows how much on all night babysitting, dinner and room at fancy NYC hotel and can’t give the driver three dollars? These people are gonna tip waiter and bartenders all weekends.

I guess my issue with Uber is that the entire reason it was started was to be the anti-taxi. No shady drivers. No "Oh, there's a 10% credit card fee" after you arrive. No taking unsuspecting out-of-towners on longer than necessary routes to run up the meter. And no tipping. And now tipping is the norm.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

If you take a cab uber or lyft and get normal or above service, IMHO you should at least tip even just a buck. I drove just three times for uber and people are so cheap, is disgusting. Picked one woman up from a supermarket and helped her load my car up with groceries. I then helped her unload it too. Which was on my time since ride was done. It was a measly 5 buck fair. Couldn’t even give me a dollar.
[doublepost=1529690312][/doublepost]People like to tip waiters in my opinion because they are handling your food and are the difference between what a good meal and a bad meal could be (second only to the cook). If they all worked on salary, why would service be any better? It would be average. I’ll get the food out when it’s ready not check back and see if I can get you something else or hurry a little if u say you’re in a rush

If someone - such as a taxi driver - helps me load and unload stuff, yes, of course they will get a decent and generous tip. As a middle aged woman who often travels with large suitcases, I am grateful and pleased when someone offers that sort of service, and does so pleasantly.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

I guess my issue with Uber is that the entire reason it was started was to be the anti-taxi. No shady drivers. No "Oh, there's a 10% credit card fee" after you arrive. No taking unsuspecting out-of-towners on longer than necessary routes to run up the meter. And no tipping. And now tipping is the norm.

If someone - such as a taxi driver - helps me load and unload stuff, yes, of course they will get a decent and generous tip. As a middle aged woman who often travels with large suitcases, I am grateful and pleased when someone offers that sort of service, and does so pleasantly.

I understand. I don’t think it’s the norm yet because in my short experience, most don’t tip. Maybe that’s changed or I was just unlucky.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I understand. I don’t think it’s the norm yet because in my short experience, most don’t tip. Maybe that’s changed or I was just unlucky.

Some (taxi drivers) don't help, either.

I have struggled with suitcases, with large male drivers comfortably ensconced in their seats, unwilling and uninterested in helping. There and then, it is already clear (in my mind) that they cannot expect to receive a tip. Sulky attitudes, dirty cars, don't help.

Those that see me - short, middle-aged, with suitcases, - and immediately make a move to assist, will guarantee themselves something extra.

The best drivers treat their cars as an office; they drive neat, clean cars, and are well turned out, and appropriately, or well-dressed (in Kenya, my driver - and those he engaged to stand in when he was unable to be present) always wore pressed trousers and sometimes a shirt and tie; call me old-fashioned, but I'd prefer not to see shorts worn in a car which I have hired. This is a profession, a job, not a holiday.

 

[LizKat]

I use Instacart to have certain perishables and produce delivered from a participating warehouse club in a city that actually delivers to surrounding townships within I guess 10 or 15 miles. I tip them 15% generally and change it up later to 20% if I thought they did a spectacular job navigating stuff like expiry dates and checking squash or peppers for soft spots etc. I would never order most grocery or household items that way because the markup is high, but since it's a warehouse club and I don't pay the membership fee (Instacart manages that for the shopper/driver), the things I do buy end up well worth the price to me.

Unless they have chosen my ordered items extremely poorly (not the case so far) or omitted delivery of an item that was marked as shopped and was charged but not bagged (happened once, I was credited by customer service), I also give them 5 stars just for coming over the darn mountain... especially since there's roadwork at the bottom right now where they're making a roundabout to remove some bad intersections. None of them has ever shown up outside the two-hour range I selected for the delivery time. What's not to like?!

Must say I wouldn't take that job unless I were just about out of food and short on the rent too. It has the makings of a completely thankless job, and there appears to be a fair amount of churn. Using one's own vehicle for the deliveries... ugh. So far all the shopper/delivery people I've met have been very pleasant, although I'm not always around to see them: I just have them put the stuff inside the back porch, which I suppose pleases them too, as there's a place right behind the porch where they can park to unload. But I imagine them carrying warehouse-bargain-sized packs of bottled water or grapefruits or whatever up people's walkways... and customers may not always be very nice.

I hope Instacart does manage to make it as it tries to expand its business; they do seem to have some management-labor issues from time to time, keep tinkering with the pay and hours arrangements etc., and online remarks from employees are sometimes quite negative. Sounds like some really enjoy it. A lot of variables in there...

 

[0388631]

I use Instacart to have certain perishables and produce delivered from a participating warehouse club in a city that actually delivers to surrounding townships within I guess 10 or 15 miles. I tip them 15% generally and change it up later to 20% if I thought they did a spectacular job navigating stuff like expiry dates and checking squash or peppers for soft spots etc. I would never order most grocery or household items that way because the markup is high, but since it's a warehouse club and I don't pay the membership fee (Instacart manages that for the shopper/driver), the things I do buy end up well worth the price to me.

Compare that to Google Checkout/Express that requires you to submit your credentials for membership stores. Instacart does have high pricing on certain items, but it's not much. And, honestly, when we and the kids were sick, it was a godsend to use Instacart.

 

[Foggydog]

I seldom tip for anything anymore.
The only place I tip is food servers.
When I went to Vegas 2 weeks ago my eyes were so dry I could barely open them. We looked at the line to check in and there was over an hour waiting time. I called the bellman and he took our bags and walked us to the front of the line for VIP. He saved us a lot of time and I tipped him generously. I also tip valet 2 bucks which is cheap compared to having to pay for parking by the hour.

So what does TIP stand for?

To
Insure
Promptness

The barber, bartender the lyft driver, and any others with their hand out get nothing.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

I seldom tip for anything anymore.
The only place I tip is food servers.
When I went to Vegas 2 weeks ago my eyes were so dry I could barely open them. We looked at the line to check in and there was over an hour waiting time. I called the bellman and he took our bags and walked us to the front of the line for VIP. He saved us a lot of time and I tipped him generously. I also tip valet 2 bucks which is cheap compared to having to pay for parking by the hour.

So what does TIP stand for?

To
Insure
Promptness

The barber, bartender the lyft driver, and any others with their hand out get nothing.

I wouldn't go back to the same barber again and don't complain about bad service from the bartender.
I always thought it was TIPS: To Insure Proper Service.

 

[Foggydog]

I wouldn't go back to the same barber again and don't complain about bad service from the bartender.
I always thought it was TIPS: To Insure Proper Service.

You mat be right.

 

[shinji]

IMHO, it’s a **** job with **** pay. Giving a buck to someone is just good karma in my book. Rich people tend to be worse. Can spend god knows how much on all night babysitting, dinner and room at fancy NYC hotel and can’t give the driver three dollars? These people are gonna tip waiter and bartenders all weekends.

Fair point, though I think those same people would've tipped a licensed cab driver from a taxi/limo service because that kind of tip is widely understood to be customary.

Uber, on the other hand, didn't have in-app tipping for a long time and marketed themselves as a cashless service. They really deserve some of the blame for rider confusion on what's expected.