Uber Disgusted w/ This Issue: Piracy

StarbucksSam

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Nov 21, 2004
1,414
0
Washington, D.C.
I think that, though it is closed, this thread shows such a lack of integrity that it's really actually very upsetting.

I know that software pirating is very common, and I myself may have at some time done it, however, it really does bother me that so many people are openly admitting that they are basically committing a crime in a public thread. I know this is usually not tolerated on MacRumors, and while I'm not trying to take any shots at anyone specific, these kinds of things are usually a LOT more discreet. If someone wants to make a reference to some kind of piracy, they are very quiet about it and they use hypothetical language here.

This just sort of bothers me because I really have begun to respect copyrights - actually, I just got an invoice from iTunes for 18.81 - I could have stolen that music but I went and purchased it.

It is upsetting to me that such a discussion was not shut off a LOT earlier. The plug really should have been pulled. I also think there needs to be a general attitude on this board that software piracy is wrong, even if some or many people feel otherwise. Some people really destroyed their credibility and dignity in my eyes and some others are probably offended by it to.

I did not bring this up to start a huge flame war, I just feel that there are some ... issues that should really be addressed regarding this matter. You are entitled to your opinions about "sharing" or "piracy", whatever you want to call it, but this is a public family friendly venue and it's not fair to the people who do follow the rules to have this sort of nonchalant and passive crime advertised on the boards.
 

devilot

Moderator emeritus
May 1, 2005
15,532
2
My feelings against the piracy discussion are more self-centered in that I just really would hate for Apple legal to crack down on MR or have MR shut down... or even worse, have their own moderator on this site! :eek:
 

Capt Underpants

macrumors 68030
Jul 23, 2003
2,859
3
Austin, Texas
I think that I moved in reverse. I started out not pirating, and eventually buying my music from iTMS, but now I download illegally. For a while now, it hasn't even seemed wrong to do. I guess I just got desensitized to the legality of it.
 

dotdotdot

macrumors 68020
Jan 23, 2005
2,381
31
But you have to ask yourself: how many of the people in that paticular thread would run out immediatly to the Apple store if Apple announced a new Front Row pack with Front Row software, remote and dock adapter? Even if they priced it at over $50?

But no - Apple is not releasing it, yet. The only way to get it is to buy a new Mac.

So, sharing the files is not technically 'pirating' software, but more like hacking their Macs to run Front Row.

It'd be different if that thread was about Photoshop CS2 or Office 2004.
 

OutThere

macrumors 603
Dec 19, 2002
5,730
0
NYC
I don't think we have a whole lot to worry about MR getting shut down for intellectual property rights...it seems to me that the Mods are really on top of their game, however many new/immoral/unthinking people we get around here. :)

Personally I used to pirate lots of music, and a lot of it is still in my collection, but I only get my music on CD and from the iTMS now. :)
 

bursty

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2004
1,001
3
dotdotdot said:
But you have to ask yourself: how many of the people in that paticular thread would run out immediatly to the Apple store if Apple announced a new Front Row pack with Front Row software, remote and dock adapter? Even if they priced it at over $50?

But no - Apple is not releasing it, yet. The only way to get it is to buy a new Mac.

So, sharing the files is not technically 'pirating' software, but more like hacking their Macs to run Front Row.

It'd be different if that thread was about Photoshop CS2 or Office 2004.
Very well said.
 

bankshot

macrumors 65816
Jan 23, 2003
1,259
73
Southern California
yg17 said:
If the issue of pirating disgusts you, then I'd hate to see what a real crime does to you.
Therefore piracy is morally ok? Give me a break! :rolleyes:

If the issue of auto theft disgusts you, then I'd hate to see what a violent crime does to you.

Gee, then I guess auto theft is ok as long as nobody gets hurt, right? Ridiculous.

I wholeheartedly agree with the person who started this thread. Copyright infringement is not only illegal, but immoral in my eyes. Regardless of the fact that many copyright holders are acting illegally and immorally in their own self interests. Two wrongs don't make a right in my book.

The fact that so many people have this laid back attitude about it just shows how selfish we are as a society, and how willing we are to compromise good moral standards when it benefits us. "Oh, it doesn't hurt anybody, it's not theft because nothing is missing, I wasn't going to buy it anyway..." All poor excuses for a behavior that's morally equivalent to theft (notice I didn't say functionally equivalent).

If you're going to do it, I can't and won't stop you, but that doesn't mean I'll hold a lower opinion of you because of it. Your loss. :p
 

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,888
2,480
St. Louis, MO
bankshot said:
Therefore piracy is morally ok? Give me a break! :rolleyes:
I never said it was morally OK, did I? :rolleyes:

It just seems silly to get disgusted and worked up over petty theft (and yes, "stealing" a $15 CD from an artist who can wipe their behind with 100 dollar bills and not see a dent in their wallet is petty).
 

bankshot

macrumors 65816
Jan 23, 2003
1,259
73
Southern California
dotdotdot said:
But you have to ask yourself: how many of the people in that paticular thread would run out immediatly to the Apple store if Apple announced a new Front Row pack with Front Row software, remote and dock adapter? Even if they priced it at over $50?

But no - Apple is not releasing it, yet. The only way to get it is to buy a new Mac.
Doesn't matter. Apple has chosen not to make it available outside of an iMac purchase, and that's their right. Nobody else has the right to obtain it any other way.

So, sharing the files is not technically 'pirating' software, but more like hacking their Macs to run Front Row.
Absolutely ludicrous! Hacking your Mac to run Front Row would be building an IR receiver device that conforms to the standards expected by the application. And then waiting/hoping for the time when Apple provides way to legally obtain the software. Obtaining the software without their permission is piracy, plain and simple!

It'd be different if that thread was about Photoshop CS2 or Office 2004.
Why? Because those cost more money (in theory -- because we don't even know how much Front Row might cost if it were ever sold separately)? Again, I say ludicrous. Piracy is piracy. Doesn't matter if it's a $5 share/trialware app, or a $50,000 custom software suite.

At this point in time, all we know is that Apple is using Front Row as a way to entice customers to buy a new iMac. It's their right to do so. If you want Front Row really badly, you have to pony up the cash for a new iMac. That's the only way to get it. Again, only Apple has the right to determine how Front Row is distributed. Bypassing the legal method they've provided and downloading it is simply wrong. If Adobe loses $800 on a pirated copy of Photoshop, then Apple loses $1200 (whatever the low end iMac costs) on a pirated copy of Front Row. Either argument, flawed as they are, carries an equal amount of validity.

It would be just as bad if that thread were about Photoshop, Office, Final Cut Pro, Logic, Tiger, iLife, or a major Oracle site license. My opinion anyway. :cool:
 

bankshot

macrumors 65816
Jan 23, 2003
1,259
73
Southern California
yg17 said:
I never said it was morally OK, did I? :rolleyes:

It just seems silly to get disgusted and worked up over petty theft (and yes, "stealing" a $15 CD from an artist who can wipe their behind with 100 dollar bills and not see a dent in their wallet is petty).
Good, we agree on that. :D

I think the original poster's beef (and mine as well) is simply that many people these days act as if it IS ok, simply because it's not really that bad. Like somehow it makes the jump from immoral to ok, simply by being on the less objectional end of the immorality scale. It's still immoral, dammit! ;)
 

ZoomZoomZoom

macrumors 6502a
May 2, 2005
767
0
bankshot said:
Good, we agree on that. :D

I think the original poster's beef (and mine as well) is simply that many people these days act as if it IS ok, simply because it's not really that bad. Like somehow it makes the jump from immoral to ok, simply by being on the less objectional end of the immorality scale. It's still immoral, dammit! ;)
Agreed. Morals are sliding down a slippery slope nowadays...
 

savar

macrumors 68000
Jun 6, 2003
1,954
0
District of Columbia
Oh yeah? Well...

I don't want to dive into the piracy debate, but when it comes to downloading music or hacking FrontRow, let's just get a few facts straight, since most people here are devoid of common sense.

1) There's zero marginal cost for the producer.

2) There's zero opportunity cost for the producer if you were never going to buy the song in the first place.

Notice I'm not commenting on the morality of it. Infer whatever you wish.
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,889
25
Northern Virginia
ZoomZoomZoom said:
Agreed. Morals are sliding down a slippery slope nowadays...
The attitude seems that if laws can be broken, and no one is "truly" harmed, then there is no problem. Just look at red light runners, speeders, and the such.

It has been said that a society can be judged on how they honor their dead. Once upon a time, people stood by the curb as a funeral procession passed by. A time that police were not needed to block intersections as they passed.

I bet we here from one "fool" that says they should just wait their turn at the traffic light.
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,889
25
Northern Virginia
PBGPowerbook said:
crime against property isn't real crime
WTF?! (And keep in mind I hate the use of that in the MR forums)

A crime is a crime. Period. Your attitude is the problem we have in the States with greedy corporate types. With greedy politicians.

Property crime means someone loses. And that makes it a crime plain and simple.

I can't believe that you even had the nerve to say that. Maybe I should come over and take possession of your home and worldly goods. By your reasoning you would not call the police.

Do you want to give us your address, so we can take what you have?:eek:
 

bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
13,951
3
Gone but not forgotten.
dotdotdot said:
But you have to ask yourself: how many of the people in that paticular thread would run out immediatly to the Apple store if Apple announced a new Front Row pack with Front Row software, remote and dock adapter? Even if they priced it at over $50?

But no - Apple is not releasing it, yet. The only way to get it is to buy a new Mac.

So, sharing the files is not technically 'pirating' software, but more like hacking their Macs to run Front Row.

It'd be different if that thread was about Photoshop CS2 or Office 2004.
Very few of those people would buy it, I think.

Call it what you will but the software is not intended at this time to run on any other machines so there is no reason to hack or share the software. It is illegal to run it on a machine other than the intended, at this time.

Should that change, I think it would be nice to have but not exactly amazing.

That thread is closed, as far as I'm concerned, and such things should not continue in public in these forums.
 

.:*Robot Boy*:.

macrumors 6502
Jan 21, 2005
373
0
New Zealand
I think the fact that the functionality of the application is somewhat compromised by running the software on a computer without an IR remote makes this argument rather pointless.

While I'm not advocating piracy, I don't believe that the folks at Apple really care if people are ravenously downloading Front Row. If anything, it's just affirmed that there is a gap in the market for this kind of technology :)
 

rickvanr

macrumors 68040
Apr 10, 2002
3,256
11
Brockville
Some people are so anal. I wouldn't steal something I would buy.

I'm only going to pirate something I wouldn't buy, so in my eyes I'm not stealing anything because that corporation isn't losing a sale.

I'd actually say in the aspect of music, I've gone out and bought more CDs since I started downloading off napster/ irc/ bit torrent. If it's good, I'll support the artist.
 

dephlt

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2005
24
0
the frontrow thread was utterly crazy,

i mean, i've seen sooo many times people here putting down piracy,

And then suddenly, the thread goes on the front page :eek:

i admit that i tried it out, but it is COMPLETELY useless cept for the *wow* factor without the remote,

it's like powermac users suddenly wanting to use battery monitering stuff that you find on ibooks and powerbooks

anway, it's off my comp now and wrt to the other stuff ie music & vids, it's becoming REALLY out of hand. with these new HD DVD and blue ray thingys, i hope that they somehow prevent the data from being read at ALL(cept for when you want to watch your movies... ;)).

only this can prevent it, and i know that it's hard cause the pirates are always trying their best, BUT they really should try harder this time:mad:
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,366
119
Los Angeles
rickvanr said:
Some people are so anal. I wouldn't steal something I would buy.

I'm only going to pirate something I wouldn't buy, so in my eyes I'm not stealing anything because that corporation isn't losing a sale.
Ah, sweet, sweet justification.

So, you enjoy something enough to use it and want to have your own copy, but not enough to actually feel like compensating the people that made it?


Lethal