Uber Pulls its Self-Driving Cars From San Francisco Streets

[MacRumors]

Uber has removed its fleet of self-driving cars from San Francisco streets on Wednesday after the California Department of Motor Vehicles revoked its vehicle registrations (via Reuters).

Earlier this week, the DMV ordered Uber to shut down its self-driving car test program and comply with regulations requiring a permit to test the autonomous vehicles on public roads. The order came after an Uber car was reportedly seen running a red light in downtown San Francisco, but the company refused to comply with the agency's demand, arguing that it did not require a permit because each of its 16 vehicles are continuously monitored by a driver and an engineer who sit in the front seats.

Uber disputed the interpretation by the DMV that the cars require a special permit and said the state laws were being unevenly applied, owing to the fact that the self-driving capabilities of Uber's fleet matched those of Tesla's vehicles, which have an optional "autopilot" feature.

Uber's defiance brought threats of legal action from the DMV and the state attorney general, but the dispute has apparently come to an end now that state officials have yanked registration for the cars used in the company's pilot program.

"We have stopped our self-driving pilot in California as the DMV has revoked the registrations for our self-driving cars," San Francisco-based Uber said in a statement emailed to AFP.

"We're now looking at where we can redeploy these cars but remain 100 percent committed to California and will be redoubling our efforts to develop workable statewide rules."

DMV director Jean Shiomoto said in a letter sent to Uber on Wednesday that she would "personally help to ensure an expedited review and approval process," for the required permits, which she said can take less than three days. It's still unclear whether Uber will take up the offer.

San Francisco was the company's second testing ground for its self-driving cars. Uber unveiled its autonomous car fleet in September in Pittsburgh. Uber launched its self-driving car program to passengers in the city on December 14 after testing the cars on San Francisco roadways for over a month.

Apple has met with California DMV officials in the past regarding self-driving car laws within the state, with its Apple Car team said to be focusing on in-car autonomous systems rather than developing an out-an-out vehicle.

Google has also scaled back its self-driving car ambitions, and is now reported to be working with established car companies to develop vehicles that will include self-driving features. Google's autonomous vehicles have clocked over two million miles of tests on public roads. Like Uber, the company has complained to authorities about the situation regarding nascent state and federal laws for self-driving vehicles.

Article Link: Uber Pulls its Self-Driving Cars From San Francisco Streets

 

[mrcobra92]

The California DMV is one of the most mismanaged government groups in the entire state. Honestly, the whole organization needs to be completely overhauled.

 

[spentan]

​

Uber disputed the interpretation by the DMV that the cars require a special permit and said the state laws were being unevenly applied, owing to the fact that the self-driving capabilities of Uber's fleet matched those of Tesla's vehicles, which have an optional "autopilot" feature.

Typical Uber trying to defy the law and the governing agencies.

As per this list, Tesla has a Permit to test autonomous vehicles.

As of December 8, 2016, DMV has issued Autonomous Vehicle Testing Permits to the following entities:

• Volkswagen Group of America
• Mercedes Benz
• Google
• Delphi Automotive
• Tesla Motors
• Bosch
• Nissan
• GM Cruise LLC
• BMW
• Honda
• Ford
• Zoox, Inc.
• Drive.ai, Inc.
• Faraday & Future Inc.
• Baidu USA LLC
• Wheego Electric Cars Inc.
• Valeo North America, Inc.
• NextEV USA, Inc.
• Telenav, Inc.
• NVIDIA Corporation

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/autonomous/testing

 

[miniyou64]

Typical Uber trying to defy the law and the governing agencies.

How is it typical of Uber?

 

[spentan]

How is it typical of Uber?

They've offered to pay fines that drivers accrue, based on lack of permits before

An example http://nj1015.com/uber-agrees-to-pay-fines-after-newark-threatens-drivers/

 

[miniyou64]

They've offered to pay fines that drivers accrue, based on lack of permits before

An example http://nj1015.com/uber-agrees-to-pay-fines-after-newark-threatens-drivers/

Oh. Well I'm glad they did that. Monopolies are evil.

 

[Stella]

Uber - a very shady company.

They do shake up the cab industry - which is in dire need of reform and competition.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

The California DMV is one of the most mismanaged government groups in the entire state. Honestly, the whole organization needs to be completely overhauled.

While that may be true, Uber also made (and has done so on multiple different laws, in many areas,) an extreme point of willfully ignoring the law. $150 per vehicle would have gotten then the permission they needed. Instead they just chose to keep going, telling the agency "No, we don't want to." in effect.

"Oh, this city doesn't allow our service? We're just going to go ahead and offer it anyway." Then they only back down when the city actually sues them and gets an order. Or in this case, when the DMV withdrew the registrations of their vehicles (making them illegal to drive, automated or completely driver-controlled.)

 

[fyun89]

The California DMV is one of the most mismanaged government groups in the entire state. Honestly, the whole organization needs to be completely overhauled.

Sure. Is ther any "properly managed" groups in this world? Apple, Samsung, DMV White House, company you're in, company I'm in.........

 

[TurboPGT!]

In before someone who gets their news from Macrumors mentions the location services article and concludes Uber is "having all sorts of problems lately".

Edit: too late.

 

[Pbrutto]

Bummer, I'll be in SF in January and was looking forward to potentially seeing one

 

[OldSchoolMacGuy]

The California DMV is one of the most mismanaged government groups in the entire state. Honestly, the whole organization needs to be completely overhauled.

They were running their cars without approval and one had just run a red light. You're in favor of letting these things on the roads in their current state and without approval?

 

[Jimmy Bubbles]

Uber - a very shady company.

They do shake up the cab industry - which is in dire need of reform and competition.

Dat Lyft tho…

 

[Stella]

There is Lyft, but not as common as Uber.

 

[thewitt]

The technology is not yet here to allow for success in self driving cars. I attended a leading edge conference earlier this year at Georgia Tech called FutureCar. We are several years away from having even automated driving assistance that is good enough to support real world driving.

 

[mrcobra92]

They were running their cars without approval and one had just run a red light. You're in favor of letting these things on the roads in their current state and without approval?

Progress will never be made without mistakes. Sure, it was and after risk, but it only shows the technology needs to be worked on.

 

[cmwade77]

Uber clearly doesn't understand how the Autopilot works on the Tesla. It doesn't stop for lights, meaning that it is not Autonomous, something that the Uber vehicles are supposed to do. Additionally, the Tesla requires the driver to keep their hands on the steering wheel and manually activate the turn signal to change lanes, again something that as near as I can tell the Uber vehicles do not do.

These are some of the key reasons that Teslas do not need individual licenses in California and the DMV says that Uber does need it.

A secondary issue is that Californians really aren't on board with self driving vehicles. While we complain about traffic (and rightfully so), overall we still like the act of driving ourselves and don't want a machine to do it for us.

 

[NT1440]

How is it typical of Uber?

Uber has a long history in setting up in various cities and counties BEFORE they've bothered to comply with the laws and taxes of a given area.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/french-...f-violating-transport-privacy-laws-1465477861
http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news...to-be-arrested-for-violating-the-traffic-law/
http://www.capemaycountyherald.com/news/article_0cc872bc-6946-11e6-bd83-3b5f8e22a4ee.html
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-breaking-local-laws/articleshow/53065407.cms
http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/Uber-flouting-local-laws-alleges-Ola/article14408501.ece
https://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2016/12/uber-vs-law
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-germany-ban-idUSKBN0ME1L820150318
https://www.yahoo.com/news/danish-p...ver-violations-110636249--finance.html?ref=gs

 

[saudade]

They were running their cars without approval and one had just run a red light. You're in favor of letting these things on the roads in their current state and without approval?

Yeah dud im in favor. A loser red light is not a big thing. I use to run red lights all the time so i dont care i just drive my wheel u know what i mean? I dont use uber cause i have cars 4 me and 4 my females. Let thiz company to do what they want. Freedom dude, do u know it?

 

[OldSchoolMacGuy]

Progress will never be made without mistakes. Sure, it was and after risk, but it only shows the technology needs to be worked on.

Aaaaaah yes, risking lives is required. So when your family member is run over and killed because an unlicensed driverless vehicle kills them, you're going to take that same stance and be totally cool with it. You won't sue because as you said, progress can't be made without mistakes (which is also untrue).

 

[Cartoonkid]

The California DMV is one of the most mismanaged government groups in the entire state. Honestly, the whole organization needs to be completely overhauled.

As do most government agencies. However, Uber just learned a valuable lesson:

Don't mess with the DMV. They always win.

EDIT: Sorry Mods! Didn't mean to run afoul of the profanity filter.

 

[miniyou64]

Aaaaaah yes, risking lives is required. So when your family member is run over and killed because an unlicensed driverless vehicle kills them, you're going to take that same stance and be totally cool with it. You won't sue because as you said, progress can't be made without mistakes (which is also untrue).

If you think government regulations are protecting anyone from mistakes, you're way off on that one.

 

[Analog Kid]

Uber: if ever there was a company in need of a corporate ethics seminar, this is the one...

Progress will never be made without mistakes. Sure, it was and after risk, but it only shows the technology needs to be worked on.

Worked on responsibly. Sorry, but you don't get to put the public at risk and call your failures a performance metric.

Uber has a long history in setting up in various cities and counties BEFORE they've bothered to comply with the laws and taxes of a given area.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/french-...f-violating-transport-privacy-laws-1465477861
http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news...to-be-arrested-for-violating-the-traffic-law/
http://www.capemaycountyherald.com/news/article_0cc872bc-6946-11e6-bd83-3b5f8e22a4ee.html
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-breaking-local-laws/articleshow/53065407.cms
http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/Uber-flouting-local-laws-alleges-Ola/article14408501.ece
https://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2016/12/uber-vs-law
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-germany-ban-idUSKBN0ME1L820150318
https://www.yahoo.com/news/danish-p...ver-violations-110636249--finance.html?ref=gs

Then there's the call and cancel attacks on Lyft, the threats to pursue journalists personally if they write critical stories, their avoidance of responsibility for their employees action, price gouging, etc, etc.

Basically Uber is what you'd get if Scientology ran a cab company.

If you think government regulations are protecting anyone from mistakes, you're way off on that one.

Hmmm... seat belts, air bags, crash safety, emissions controls, mandatory training and certification before operation, vision tests, speed limits and enforcement, blood alcohol testing, insurance mandates... You don't think any of that has protected anyone from mistakes?

 

[miniyou64]

Hmmm... seat belts, air bags, crash safety, emissions controls, mandatory training and certification before operation, vision tests, speed limits and enforcement, blood alcohol testing, insurance mandates... You don't think any of that has protected anyone from mistakes?

So do internment camps. And what you listed doesn't prevent everything. All those things would have been created without the government. Believe it or not companies that sell products and services have inherent incentives as a business to keep their customers safe.

 

[Analog Kid]

So do internment camps. And what you listed doesn't prevent everything. All those things would have been created without the government. Believe it or not companies that sell products and services have inherent incentives as a business to keep their customers safe.

Wow. I thought this was going to be a debate about the difference between "anyone" and "everyone"-- wasn't prepared for the full on "corporations are our protectors" line of reasoning.