uh.. what happened to Apple? [underwhelmed by MBP]

Pandamic

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 31, 2014
3
0
So my Windows laptop died after two years and I decided to go back to Apple since my last MBP lasted several years.

WHAT HAPPENED?!

A $2000 15" MBP will get me INTEGRATED GPU and only 256GB storage? Seriously?! Why? My last MBP was a 2007. From what I remember from MBP, they all contained adequate storage and all had discrete GPU, with the GPU memory being the difference with higher priced models. Now I have to shell out nearly $3000 just to get an underwhelming 750m, underwhelming 512gb storage, underwhelming i7 2.3ghz.
 

yjchua95

macrumors 604
Apr 23, 2011
6,725
230
GVA, KUL, MEL (current), ZQN
So my Windows laptop died after two years and I decided to go back to Apple since my last MBP lasted several years.

WHAT HAPPENED?!

A $2000 15" MBP will get me INTEGRATED GPU and only 256GB storage? Seriously?! Why? My last MBP was a 2007. From what I remember from MBP, they all contained adequate storage and all had discrete GPU, with the GPU memory being the difference with higher priced models. Now I have to shell out nearly $3000 just to get an underwhelming 750m, underwhelming 512gb storage, underwhelming i7 2.3ghz.
The Iris Pro performs like a GT640M.

The GT750M is underwhelming? How is that so when it actually outperforms the GTX660M?

512GB storage is underwhelming? Perhaps you have no idea that it's a PCIe SSD with write speeds of 650MB/s and read speeds of 750MB/s, so the price is justified. Or are you still stuck in 2007 thinking that it's a cheap piece-of-crap spinning HDD?

2.3GHz quad core i7 is underwhelming? It's way faster than a 3GHz dual core i7.

And if you match the processor, RAM and SSD on both Iris-only models and GT750M models, their prices are exactly the same. So the GT750M is a free add-on.
 

Pandamic

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 31, 2014
3
0
I don't understand why their new models are so underpowered.

The 2012 MBP seemed like pretty solid deals -- good price to performance ratio. They were perfect for students. They were quite affordable, were reliable so it would last throughout their undergrad and even grad studies. They were powerful -- which is what you mainly look for when paying premium price. They had adequate storage, which is important for any student and professional. They had discrete GPU, and while they weren't the best mobile GPU they were adequate enough for moderate gaming.

The 2013 MBP has none of those things.

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The Iris Pro performs like a GT640M.

The GT750M is underwhelming? How is that so when it actually outperforms the GTX660M?

512GB storage is underwhelming? Perhaps you have no idea that it's a PCIe SSD with write speeds of 650MB/s and read speeds of 750MB/s, so the price is justified. Or are you still stuck in 2007 thinking that it's a cheap piece-of-crap spinning HDD?

2.3GHz quad core i7 is underwhelming? It's way faster than a 3GHz dual core i7.

And if you match the processor, RAM and SSD on both Iris-only models and GT750M models, their prices are exactly the same. So the GT750M is a free add-on.
For $3000? Yes, all those things are quite underwhelming.
 

yjchua95

macrumors 604
Apr 23, 2011
6,725
230
GVA, KUL, MEL (current), ZQN
I don't understand why their new models are so underpowered.

The 2012 MBP seemed like pretty solid deals -- good price to performance ratio. They were perfect for students. They were quite affordable, were reliable so it would last throughout their undergrad and even grad studies. They were powerful -- which is what you mainly look for when paying premium price. They had adequate storage, which is important for any student and professional. They had discrete GPU, and while they weren't the best mobile GPU they were adequate enough for moderate gaming.

The 2013 MBP has none of those things.

----------



For $3000? Yes, all those things are quite underwhelming.
Nope, it's reasonably priced, especially since it has a PCIe SSD.

You forget about the premium you pay for good design and a superb user experience.

If you can't afford it, don't buy one. I can show you the door to Dell or HP if you want.

Edit: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/380056?baseline=379836

The 2.6GHz i7 (Haswell rMBP) outperforms the 2.7GHz i7 (2012 MBP). Clock speed is not directly proportional to performance.
 

Dekard

macrumors 6502
Sep 7, 2011
394
2
Dallas, Texas
I don't understand why their new models are so underpowered.

The 2012 MBP seemed like pretty solid deals -- good price to performance ratio. They were perfect for students. They were quite affordable, were reliable so it would last throughout their undergrad and even grad studies. They were powerful -- which is what you mainly look for when paying premium price. They had adequate storage, which is important for any student and professional. They had discrete GPU, and while they weren't the best mobile GPU they were adequate enough for moderate gaming.

The 2013 MBP has none of those things.

----------



For $3000? Yes, all those things are quite underwhelming.
Actually.. the 2013 meets 'ALL' of those points except your price point. I play BF4 on my rMBP regularly.. and it's pretty rough game for GPU's.. it sounds like you just can't get over the price point and it's understandable, they aren't cheap. But they are still beefy powerful laptops..

I think the Macbook Air line is gearing itself more for the student, and hence the 'pro' name the macbook pro's are for the professional business folk.

The $3200 rMBP is the one I got and it's the top of the line most expensive one available. So, yes it's expensive but it is planned to last me at least 4 years. (for my uses) others starts at $1199 which is still reasonable.
 
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Merode

macrumors 6502a
Nov 5, 2013
520
332
Warszawa, Poland
I don't understand why their new models are so underpowered.

The 2012 MBP seemed like pretty solid deals -- good price to performance ratio. They were perfect for students. They were quite affordable, were reliable so it would last throughout their undergrad and even grad studies. They were powerful -- which is what you mainly look for when paying premium price. They had adequate storage, which is important for any student and professional. They had discrete GPU, and while they weren't the best mobile GPU they were adequate enough for moderate gaming.

The 2013 MBP has none of those things.

----------



For $3000? Yes, all those things are quite underwhelming.
Go ahead, buy Dell. Just bring thicker wallet for the same quality - it's worse.
2013 rMBPs are much better than 2012 rMBPs. Especially if you go for the top 15".
 

Pandamic

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 31, 2014
3
0
Go ahead, buy Dell. Just bring thicker wallet for the same quality - it's worse.
2013 rMBPs are much better than 2012 rMBPs. Especially if you go for the top 15".
Correction: ONLY if you go for the top 15"
 

trewyn15

macrumors 6502
May 13, 2013
391
0
Nope, it's reasonably priced, especially since it has a PCIe SSD.

You forget about the premium you pay for good design and a superb user experience.

If you can't afford it, don't buy one. I can show you the door to Dell or HP if you want.

Edit: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/380056?baseline=379836

The 2.6GHz i7 (Haswell rMBP) outperforms the 2.7GHz i7 (2012 MBP). Clock speed is not directly proportional to performance.
No, not reasonably priced compared to competitors.

Superb user experience? Right :rolleyes:

How about Asus or HP, equal build quality, equally good operating system if you know how to use it.

It all comes down to whether or not you want to pay the premium to be able to say you own an Apple product and/or really like OS X for some weird reason over Windows.
 

alphaod

macrumors Core
Feb 9, 2008
22,047
1,104
NYC
If you don't like the price, the best you can do is not buy it.

Complaining about it won't drop the price, so the best is to buy something you think is worth your money.
 

panzer06

macrumors 68040
Sep 23, 2006
3,009
70
Kilrath
So my Windows laptop died after two years and I decided to go back to Apple since my last MBP lasted several years.

WHAT HAPPENED?!

A $2000 15" MBP will get me INTEGRATED GPU and only 256GB storage? Seriously?! Why? My last MBP was a 2007. From what I remember from MBP, they all contained adequate storage and all had discrete GPU, with the GPU memory being the difference with higher priced models. Now I have to shell out nearly $3000 just to get an underwhelming 750m, underwhelming 512gb storage, underwhelming i7 2.3ghz.
I have to agree with you. I only have a Mac Mini now because the Apple laptops are sealed, can't be upgraded and cost way too much for what you get. Since I use the mini mainly for office, internet, e-mail etc I just like Macs for the OS and ease of use so fancy retina display doesn't really mean much. I use a Windows tablet for non-OS X compatible apps. For me Windows 8 has been stable and works well with all the Windows games. the 750m is a fine GPU but paying $3000 to get one is in no way acceptable to me.

As others have said you don't need to buy it (I won't) but it would be nice if Apple offered more flexible mobile solutions at a more reasonable price.

Cheers,
 

MacDawg

macrumors Core
Mar 20, 2004
19,708
4,274
"Between the Hedges"
No, not reasonably priced compared to competitors.

Superb user experience? Right :rolleyes:

How about Asus or HP, equal build quality, equally good operating system if you know how to use it.

It all comes down to whether or not you want to pay the premium to be able to say you own an Apple product and/or really like OS X for some weird reason over Windows.
You get what you pay for in my experience, and I have no issues with paying for my MBP

Yep, the user experience on my MBP with Mavericks is superb
As is the customer service I've always received from Apple and my Apple store
(2 MBA's 1 MBP, 1 iPhone 5s, 1 iPhone 5, 2 iPad Mini, 1 iPad 3)

I have never found the build quality of other laptops to be near as good, but that's just me I guess... personal opinion and preference

OS? I use Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 both on a daily basis for work
While they get the job done, I will always prefer my user experience with OSX
When I have a choice, I use OSX
In fact, my Dell laptop for work sits unused on my desk and I run Windows with VMware Fusion instead of using it
I also have my Galaxy S3 work phone forwarded to my personal iPhone

Bottom line OP... buy and use what you find useful and can afford
For me, it is a MBP hands down
 

eneisch

macrumors 6502a
Jul 11, 2008
639
109
Actually I think that Apple is competitively priced. The cost of any Windows PC with the similar specs (SSD, High Res Screen, etc.) are in the same ballpark.

For Example:

Samsung ATIV 9 Plus 13" with i7, 256GB SSD and 8GB RAM = $1799

Macbook 13" with i7, 256 GB SSD and 8GB RAM = $1799

Note that the Macbook has Iris graphics while Samsung has HD 4400. MacBook also has a faster PCIe SSD. Samsung does have a touchscreen for that price though.

I believe most (if not all) ultrabook style computers are sealed and have non-removable batteries these days.
 

KUguardgrl13

macrumors 68020
May 16, 2013
2,485
109
Kansas, USA
Consider what the price increase is covering: PCIe SSD, Haswell processor, retina display, and FREE OS upgrades for as long as the machine supports them. For the two machines I have, it's a $300 difference, but it's well worth it.
 

blooperz

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2013
287
1
Check out Lenovo's higher end models, similar build quality to apple but better value for your money especially if you don't mind the windows OS. If you "must" have mac OS, than you'll have to pay the apple tax I'm afraid.
 

leman

macrumors G3
Oct 14, 2008
9,968
4,551
Dunno, a Dell XPS 15" with very similar specs (a slower CPU and SSD) costs $2,349.99 - compare this to Apple's $2,599.00 Its still a quite good deal for the money. Even despite the lack of the dGPU, the base 15" rMBP is quite good. Of course, if you are interested in gaming, a 2012 model would be a better choice.
 

brdeveloper

macrumors 68020
Apr 21, 2010
2,472
161
Brasil
So my Windows laptop died after two years and I decided to go back to Apple since my last MBP lasted several years.

WHAT HAPPENED?!

A $2000 15" MBP will get me INTEGRATED GPU and only 256GB storage? Seriously?! Why? My last MBP was a 2007. From what I remember from MBP, they all contained adequate storage and all had discrete GPU, with the GPU memory being the difference with higher priced models. Now I have to shell out nearly $3000 just to get an underwhelming 750m, underwhelming 512gb storage, underwhelming i7 2.3ghz.
You forgot the main problem: "retina burner" display.

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Consider what the price increase is covering: PCIe SSD, Haswell processor, retina display, and FREE OS upgrades for as long as the machine supports them. For the two machines I have, it's a $300 difference, but it's well worth it.
Retina display is not a selling point to me once you have to enter the screen lottery to hopefully get a good one.
 

cheesyappleuser

macrumors 6502a
Apr 5, 2011
508
97
Portugal
So my Windows laptop died after two years and I decided to go back to Apple since my last MBP lasted several years.

WHAT HAPPENED?!

A $2000 15" MBP will get me INTEGRATED GPU and only 256GB storage? Seriously?! Why? My last MBP was a 2007. From what I remember from MBP, they all contained adequate storage and all had discrete GPU, with the GPU memory being the difference with higher priced models. Now I have to shell out nearly $3000 just to get an underwhelming 750m, underwhelming 512gb storage, underwhelming i7 2.3ghz.
I can't really agree with you but in the BTO (which is almost always outrageously expensive).
The Iris Pro performs rather nice (about like last year's 650M) and the i7 seems to be a beast to me.
Plus, the 256GB are little storage but they're PCIe-SSDs. You don't get those on a standard PC, and boy they're fast!

And, obviously, you pay the premium Apple price. Amazing software and hardware design don't come for free.
But still, all in all these are great computers. You're underestimating the whole package (amazing battery life, slim and lightness, Retina display, SSD, etc.).
 

Dekard

macrumors 6502
Sep 7, 2011
394
2
Dallas, Texas
Retina display is not a selling point to me once you have to enter the screen lottery to hopefully get a good one.
I would guess it's more of a lottery in getting a screen that has issues, most people don't have issues with the screens, but some do.. I wouldn't say it's the majority of rMBPs