UI lag? - Might return

[WillemSleegers]

What Macbook do you have? Also an m3 / m5 / m7? Would be interesting if it lags on all Macbook types.

And about the lag: Have my m3 a couple of days yet. When it has a lot of work to do (like seeing up everything the first time, or using a lot of UI space switching for benchmark purposes) it could lag. But in the daily needs, everything is fine. I think. Of course an MBP is faster, but for Internet / Office work, I for my self noticed, that the macbook is a fine machine to work with. I feel no difference with my old MBA 2013 base model. Even with an external monitor (1080p) plugged in.

At the beginning I also noticed some UI lags from time to time, until I started to work with it. I don't know, but I think that Apple made some optimization with one OS update. And again I think that El Captain is not the best optimization work Apple has done for now. But internet pages like The Verge or Google image search are fine and without lag. Even Facebook works well - as long as it don't have the typical Facebook lag that will be shown on all machines because of how the page is loading stuff.

I noticed it with my rMB 2016, m7, running the latest version of everything.

Webpages are one thing, but I am very certain you can observe UI lag with basic Finder actions and apps such as iTunes. Some posters here are focussing most on the websites, but I consider that to be the least annoying.

 

[NT1440]

You're considering returning a computer for that?

Wow.

 

[WillemSleegers]

You're considering returning a computer for that?

Wow.

The MacBook has limitations enough. It should do what it does right.

 

[NT1440]

The MacBook has limitations enough. It should do what it does right.

Shittily coded web pages are still going to scroll like crap even on the highest end machine you can buy.

Everything in that video has to do with software, to suggest that lag on a web page is related to hardware is to not understand anything about how powerful even the cheapest computers today are.

 

[WillemSleegers]

Shittily coded web pages are still going to scroll like crap even on the highest end machine you can buy.

Everything in that video has to do with software, to suggest that lag on a web page is related to hardware is to not understand anything about how powerful even the cheapest computers today are.

Sure, websites. What about Finder things or the demonstrated iTunes lag?

I am currently working on my MacBook Air and I sadly have to admit that the experience is a lot smoother/crisp than working on a retina Mac.

 

[NT1440]

Sure, websites. What about Finder things or the demonstrated iTunes lag?

I am currently working on my MacBook Air and I sadly have to admit that the experience is a lot smoother/crisp than working on a retina Mac.

Again, software.

We passed the ability for even the cheapest computer to handle web browsing and 90% of what your average consumer does on a computer years ago. For these basic tasks throwing more horsepower behind them is going to accomplish nothing.

Unless you're suggesting that a machine that can actually handle 4K editing surprisingly well somehow does not have the oomph required for page rendering?

It's a software issue, and issue for sure, but not related to the "strength" of the machine.

 

[WillemSleegers]

Again, software.

We passed the ability for even the cheapest computer to handle web browsing and 90% of what your average consumer does on a computer years ago. For these basic tasks throwing more horsepower behind them is going to accomplish nothing.

Unless you're suggesting that a machine that can actually handle 4K editing surprisingly well somehow does not have the oomph required for page rendering?

It's a software issue, and issue for sure, but not related to the "strength" of the machine.

My MacBook Air and my retina MacBook are running the same software, so it's not software.

The main difference? Hardware, specifically the retina screen.

 

[NT1440]

My MacBook Air and my retina MacBook are running the same software, so it's not software.

The main difference? Hardware, specifically the retina screen.

You really don't understand that different hardware has different drivers? Your Air and macbook are different hardware implementations and thus require different drivers. Your method for troubleshooting is lacking to say the least.

You can't honestly think that any computer made today can't handle a web page? Seriously? I have a raspberry pi that can do web surfing.

 

[WillemSleegers]

You really don't understand that different hardware has different drivers? Your Air and macbook are different hardware implementations.

You can't honestly think that any computer made today can't handle a web page? Seriously? I have a raspberry pi that can do web surfing.

Why do you keep focusing on webpages? I think it is way more important that a computer can handle basic UI interactions such as anything you do in the Finder, rather than some crappy websites.

It's fine that you want to blame different drivers for this, although why did you not immediately say that it was a driver issue? Also, why would Apple accept ******** drivers? It seems a lot more plausible to me that the enormous amount of pixels is the cause for lag.

I also don't really care what the exact cause is. It's clear that UI lag exists and apparently Apple is favoring the looks over the functionality in this case; which I think is a bummer.

 

[NICKXXXXXX]

You're considering returning a computer for that?

Wow.

For a such a expensive and new laptop not being able to handle its own damn UI flawlessly yes I'm considering to return it. The webpage is not an issue anymore since it's already been made clear that it's the sites fault but everything else. I should not have to experience lag in iTunes, finder and other UI activities

 

[NT1440]

For a such a expensive and new laptop not being able to handle its own damn UI flawlessly yes I'm considering to return it. The webpage is not an issue anymore since it's already been made clear that it's the sites fault but everything else. I should not have to experience lag in iTunes, finder and other UI activities

So wait for a software update. I don't understand why you think the machine can't handle it from a hardware perspective. I experience the same UI lag in iTunes on my MBP...it's because iTunes is terrible these days, not your computer.
[doublepost=1464009143][/doublepost]

Why do you keep focusing on webpages? I think it is way more important that a computer can handle basic UI interactions such as anything you do in the Finder, rather than some crappy websites.

It's fine that you want to blame different drivers for this, although why did you not immediately say that it was a driver issue? Also, why would Apple accept ******** drivers? It seems a lot more plausible to me that the enormous amount of pixels is the cause for lag.

I also don't really care what the exact cause is. It's clear that UI lag exists and apparently Apple is favoring the looks over the functionality in this case; which I think is a bummer.

Enormous amount of pixels? Any GPU made in the last 3 years can handle retina AND external monitors.

I don't understand where this notion that retina is somehow orders of magnitude more demanding suddenly.

I'm actually doing work on an HP Zbook (http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/workstation-ultrabooks.html) right now. Just took 35 seconds for the Control Panel to show up, guess this workstation laptop simply isn't powerful enough to drive this non-retina screen.

 

[WillemSleegers]

So wait for a software update. I don't understand why you think the machine can't handle it from a hardware perspective. I experience the same UI lag in iTunes on my MBP...it's because iTunes is terrible these days, not your computer.

It's true software optimizations could solve the problem, but it's sad to see that for example my MBA from 2012 has a smoother/crispier experience than my 2016 rMB.

Also, if you buy a retina display laptop with the hope that the UI lag will be solved with software optimizations, then I think you will have a bad time. I don't see it happening anytime soon, if ever. You shouldn't buy something with the hope that it will get better.

 

[NT1440]

Also, if you buy a retina display laptop with the hope that the UI lag will be solved with software optimizations, then I think you will have a bad time. I don't see it happening anytime soon, if ever. You shouldn't buy something with the hope that it will get better.

Then you'll never buy any type of technology again. Look around you. Things are so complex now that all technology is merely a work in progress. In the gaming world games get pushed out to be fixed later, Windows machines (SurfaceBook) need updates at launch to run properly, phones need updates to get better performance. This is the world of complexity we live in.

If you're going to buy technology that is perfect, you're not buying anything.

 

[NICKXXXXXX]

So wait for a software update. I don't understand why you think the machine can't handle it from a hardware perspective. I experience the same UI lag in iTunes on my MBP...it's because iTunes is terrible these days, not your computer.
[doublepost=1464009143][/doublepost]
Enormous amount of pixels? Any GPU made in the last 3 years can handle retina AND external monitors.

I don't understand where this notion that retina is somehow orders of magnitude more demanding suddenly.

I'm actually doing work on an HP Zbook (http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/workstation-ultrabooks.html) right now. Just took 35 seconds for the Control Panel to show up, guess this workstation laptop simply isn't powerful enough to drive this non-retina screen.

But it's not only iTunes!!!!! And a software update in apples world is the same as a new computer... This won't be fixed ever in a software update

 

[WillemSleegers]

Enormous amount of pixels? Any GPU made in the last 3 years can handle retina AND external monitors.

I don't understand where this notion that retina is somehow orders of magnitude more demanding suddenly.

I'm actually doing work on an HP Zbook (http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/workstation-ultrabooks.html) right now. Just took 35 seconds for the Control Panel to show up, guess this workstation laptop simply isn't powerful enough to drive this non-retina screen.

You are being somewhat unfair. You are right in saying that software has a huge effect on the responsiveness of UI, but it's also true that more pixels require better hardware. The whole recent uptake in complaints about UI lag is due to the retina screens. We want our UI to be super crisp and smooth, and it seems that the hardware isn't completely ready for it. Please note that when it comes to UI interactions the machine needs to be very responsible, which means pushing a lot of pixels in a very short time period. Lag is easily noticed, so we expect a lot from the machine.

Now, some of the lag I'm sure can be addressed using software optimizations, but not all of it will be addressed. Apple seems to have prioritized the quality of the screen over UI responsiveness, accepting a small degradation of UI responsiveness in favor of the retina display. This is the current problem some of us have, since we have the opposite prioritization.

The discussion should not really be about the exact cause, but more about whether UI lag actually exists (not everybody is reporting it), so that those who don't like it can make an informed purchase decision.

 

[NT1440]

You are being somewhat unfair. You are right in saying that software has a huge effect on the responsiveness of UI, but it's also true that more pixels require better hardware. The whole recent uptake in complaints about UI lag is due to the retina screens. We want our UI to be super crisp and smooth, and it seems that the hardware isn't completely ready for it. Please note that when it comes to UI interactions the machine needs to be very responsible, which means pushing a lot of pixels in a very short time period. Lag is easily noticed, so we expect a lot from the machine.

Now, some of the lag I'm sure can be addressed using software optimizations, but not all of it will be addressed. Apple seems to have prioritized the quality of the screen over UI responsiveness, accepting a small degradation of UI responsiveness in favor of the retina display. This is the current problem some of us have, since we have the opposite prioritization.

The discussion should not really be about the exact cause, but more about whether UI lag actually exists (not everybody is reporting it), so that those who don't like it can make an informed purchase decision.

You're insane if you thinking pushing a retina screen requires a heavy load on any modern GPU. It's simply not the case.

Look at post #36. It literally just took me 35 seconds for the control panel on a WORKSTATION laptop computer to show up, on a NON retina screen. That machine beats the highest end MBP by a mile in GPU and CPU specs....guess those components just aren't up for the task eh?

 

[WillemSleegers]

You're insane if you thinking pushing a retina screen requires a heavy load on any modern GPU. It's simply not the case.

Look at post #36. It literally just took me 35 seconds for the control panel on a WORKSTATION laptop computer to show up, on a NON retina screen. That machine beats the highest end MBP by a mile in GPU and CPU specs....guess those components just aren't up for the task eh?

Actually, at this point, and consistent with my previous post's final paragraph, I don't care.

 

[John-crichton]

Hey guys,
I have not currently my m5 MacBook with me, but it has seemed to me that this one http://www.apple.com/iphone-6s/ was lagging with Safari.
This is funny enough, even if I feel not so concerned, because it seems to happen on very few Web pages.
I'll test it back when I'll be at home. But I'd be curious to know if you have the same behavior.
I also need to test if it is different on another machine / browser.

 

[Precursor]

it's sad to see that for example my MBA from 2012 has a smoother/crispier experience than my 2016 rMB.

Sorry but I call that BS

 

[where is it]

But it's not only iTunes!!!!! And a software update in apples world is the same as a new computer... This won't be fixed ever in a software update

Just return your Mac and move on.

Stick to what you prefer. If you don't like what your seeing with retina style displays then stick to ones you do like.

You can't please everyone at the end of the day.

 

[cursedearth]

For a such a expensive and new laptop not being able to handle its own damn UI flawlessly yes I'm considering to return it. The webpage is not an issue anymore since it's already been made clear that it's the sites fault but everything else. I should not have to experience lag in iTunes, finder and other UI activities

Return the rMB and get a 2016 iMac .

 

[NICKXXXXXX]

Just return your Mac and move on.

Stick to what you prefer. If you don't like what your seeing with retina style displays then stick to ones you do like.

You can't please everyone at the end of the day.

This post makes no sense... Anyways I just talked to Apple support and he suggested me to try turning off FileVault so it's currently working with that. If I still have these issues I'll just live with it. There is no other computer I want than this one. Only an iPad with OS X.
[doublepost=1464016873][/doublepost]

Return the rMB and get a 2016 iMac .

I just sold my iMac...

 

[where is it]

This post makes no sense... Anyways I just talked to Apple support and he suggested me to try turning off FileVault so it's currently working with that. If I still have these issues I'll just live with it. There is no other computer I want than this one. Only an iPad with OS X.
[doublepost=1464016873][/doublepost]
I just sold my iMac...

Ah FileVault. Yes, that would definitely cause a slight lag.

I tried FileVault on my old 11inch Air and didn't like it.

 

[SchodMC]

Hi folks,

it's not fair to to compare the MBA with the rMB because of the retina display. For example: if you answer en email in Apple mail, there will be an animation when mail opens the new mail. It is a little bit slower on the rMB m3 than on my old MBA 2013 i5. But, ant this is a big BUT, it is a question of the resolution.

You can test it very easy: download RDM, a tool to switch resolution (t's free, you can download it here https://roaringapps.com/app/rdm-retina-display-menu). Switch the resolution to 1440x900 (nit the 1440x900 HiDPI mode!). Test the animation and the UI. And you will notice a difference of UI speed! And why that? Because in HiDPI / Retina mode, you have a gorgeous screen, but a screen that renders at 2880*1800 (for the more space option) - twice the size the MBA has to render, or 2560x1600 (for the default) - twice the size the non-retina MBP has to render. Because of this, maybe the rMBP can be a little bit laggy from time to time. Even if it has more power, the rendering is finally done by the graphics chip. And that is not the hight-end chip in the rMB or the rMBP. And also not in the MBA, but because of the lower resolution, you will not notice it.

I personally think, that if someone is not happy with the rMB, he/she also wouldn't be happy with an MBA retina (if it exists). Because an theoretically retina MBA wouldn't have a more fluid UI than the rMB has.

So there are two options: Enjoy the retina display and wait for upcoming optimizations or for the day when you are comfortable with the UI on the rMB, or go for a non retina MBA. The third option is to go for an rMBP - but don't be sad if there also will be a lag some times.

 

[NICKXXXXXX]

Hi folks,

it's not fair to to compare the MBA with the rMB because of the retina display. For example: if you answer en email in Apple mail, there will be an animation when mail opens the new mail. It is a little bit slower on the rMB m3 than on my old MBA 2013 i5. But, ant this is a big BUT, it is a question of the resolution.

You can test it very easy: download RDM, a tool to switch resolution (t's free, you can download it here https://roaringapps.com/app/rdm-retina-display-menu). Switch the resolution to 1440x900 (nit the 1440x900 HiDPI mode!). Test the animation and the UI. And you will notice a difference of UI speed! And why that? Because in HiDPI / Retina mode, you have a gorgeous screen, but a screen that renders at 2880*1800 (for the more space option) - twice the size the MBA has to render, or 2560x1600 (for the default) - twice the size the non-retina MBP has to render. Because of this, maybe the rMBP can be a little bit laggy from time to time. Even if it has more power, the rendering is finally done by the graphics chip. And that is not the hight-end chip in the rMB or the rMBP. And also not in the MBA, but because of the lower resolution, you will not notice it.

I personally think, that if someone is not happy with the rMB, he/she also wouldn't be happy with an MBA retina (if it exists). Because an theoretically retina MBA wouldn't have a more fluid UI than the rMB has.

So there are two options: Enjoy the retina display and wait for upcoming optimizations or for the day when you are comfortable with the UI on the rMB, or go for a non retina MBA. The third option is to go for an rMBP - but don't be sad if there also will be a lag some times.

I personally have changed the scree so I have more work space. I'll try to change to the lowest resolution and see wag the result is.