UK Government Issues New Order to Access iCloud User Data

[Jodeo]

Does Apple have to do this in China?
If so, then say "We're going to comply with the UK just as we have with China."
If not, then say "We're being demanded to comply with regulations more draconian than China."

Regardless, Apple can say they will cease further sales in the UK as they cannot comply with these measures. Unfortunately, Google and others probably won't care, cease the opportunity to expand market and make the UK officials happy.

SIDE NOTE: I wonder how many comments in this thread would land people in England in jail...

 

[Radeon85]

This government is doing a great job of pissing everyone off. Can't wait until they are gone.

 

[darkpaw]

Does Apple have to do this in China?
If so, then say "We're going to comply with the UK just as we have with China."
If not, then say "We're being demanded to comply with regulations more draconian than China."

Regardless, Apple can say they will cease further sales in the UK as they cannot comply with these measures. Unfortunately, Google and others probably won't care, cease the opportunity to expand market and make the UK officials happy.

ADP is not enabled in China, so it doesn't matter. iCloud data stored in China is stored under Standard Data Protection (SDP), meaning Apple holds the encryption keys, and the data can be decrypted when required by authorities.

Apple doesn't have to stop sales in the UK over this. This is merely an extra layer of protection for certain categories of data stored in iCloud. Most people in the UK haven't enabled ADP anyway, so their data can already be decrypted and accessed with a warrant.

Apple already removed the 'ADP switch' from the UK; you cannot enable ADP as a UK user. The next step would be to force those who currently have it enabled to disable it. Apple cannot do this themselves because they do not have the encryption keys. A UK user would need to disable it themselves, and then they would not be able to re-enable it. Once that's done all UK users would have their data protected by SDP only.

You can read about the different categories of data and their protection level here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651

SIDE NOTE: I wonder how many comments in this thread would land people in England in jail...

None. We aren't subject to the order from the Home Secretary. We can chat about this as much as we want. We have free speech here.

 

[Luis Ortega]

Apple just removed an app from the App Store after the government demanded it. That seems like the best reason not to have a walled garden and let people load apps from wherever they want.
Those who prefer the illusion of security can remain in the walled garden and those who want to decide how to use their phones, can opt to buy apps from other sites.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

When is Apple going to fight back? They already told the FBI (and, essentially, the US gov't) to go away, so why can't they just refuse to comply with this? Will there be a court order? If so, when will it be enough for Apple?

They can do that in the US because of US laws.

The UK has different laws.

So they may have to either comply or leave the market altogether.

 

[I7guy]

Apple just removed an app from the App Store after the government demanded it. That seems like the best reason not to have a walled garden and let people load apps from wherever they want.
Those who prefer the illusion of security can remain in the walled garden and those who want to decide how to use their phones, can opt to buy apps from other sites.

If one is located in the EU you can side load. But no it’s not a good reason to “bring down” the walled garden. What app was removed?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apple just removed an app from the App Store after the government demanded it. That seems like the best reason not to have a walled garden and let people load apps from wherever they want.
Those who prefer the illusion of security can remain in the walled garden and those who want to decide how to use their phones, can opt to buy apps from other sites.

Without question this has provided the most irrefutable example of a major negative of the walled garden.

Apple should not be in the business of censorship at the behest of governments.

It's bad enough what they do in China .. but to do it in the US?

Outrageous.
Everyone should be appalled by it.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

If one is located in the EU you can side load. But no it’s not a good reason to “bring down” the walled garden. What app was removed?

In the United States, users cannot easily install software outside the App Store. The current administration ordered Apple to remove an app (ICEBlock), and Apple complied immediately.

Apple is now an active and willing participant in government censorship. How far does this obedience extend? Will they remove apps from US devices entirely, as they did with ADP in the UK? Implement on-device scanning for politically disfavored content?

If the Walled Garden becoming an instrument of state censorship isn't reason enough to tear it down, what is?

 

[I7guy]

In the United States, users cannot easily install software outside the App Store. The current administration ordered Apple to remove an app (ICEBlock), and Apple complied immediately.

As Apple should.

Apple is now an active and willing participant in government censorship.

You mean Apple obeys local laws?

How far does this obedience extend? Will they remove apps from US devices entirely, as they did with ADP in the UK? Implement on-device scanning for politically disfavored content?

It will be what it will be. Vote with your $$$. Should Apple just ignore the UK? I don’t share your concerns and have no plans to change my buying habits.

If the Walled Garden becoming an instrument of state censorship isn't reason enough to tear it down, what is?

Nope, not a good enough reason.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Wow @I7guy

This is really something 👇

Is there any red line Apple could cross that would make you alter that view?

 

[maflynn]

Nope, not a good enough reason.

So you're cool with losing rights, having a government spy on you and tell you what you can and cannot say, as long as you can keep using your apple products?

 

[I7guy]

So you're cool with losing rights, having a government spy on you and tell you what you can and cannot say, as long as you can keep using your apple products?

I think the downsides outweigh any positives, which is turning the Apple ecosystem into a platform for illegal content.

 

[I7guy]

Wow @I7guy

This is really something 👇

View attachment 2564884

Is there any red line Apple could cross that would make you alter that view?

Apple needs to follow local laws, everybody agrees. And that’s what they did here which has now turned into Apple is complicit in state censorship. Apple should be more regulated is a cry often heard. Yet when they obey local requests they turned into an arm for state censorship.

All this in a thread where government wants to rip down Apple encryption while posters want to tear down the walled garden. All while ticktoc is under attack. Buy an android if all this is important to you.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apple needs to follow local laws, everybody agrees. And that’s what they did here which has now turned into Apple is complicit in state censorship. Apple should be more regulated is a cry often heard. Yet when they obey local requests they turned into an arm for state censorship.

There end up being some problems here, specifically because of the walled garden.

Apple wouldn't be able to be used by a maliciously intended government actor if they weren't insisting on the walled garden only approach. They'd be able to pull things from their store, but not control what any/all iPhone users can do and that would be the end of the "government request".

This is all fun discourse when it's about business objectives and revenue. It gets "real" in a hurry when they are being asked to essentially tread on the 1st Amendment on behalf of the State.

Apple knows all about these sorts of downsides. It's why they have tried so hard to not physically be able to become a tool of law enforcement in the past.

("we don't actually have the encryption keys, so we can't unlock that device for you even if we wanted to")

 

[surferfb]

Apple needs to follow local laws, everybody agrees. And that’s what they did here which has now turned into Apple is complicit in state censorship. Apple should be more regulated is a cry often heard. Yet when they obey local requests they turned into an arm for state censorship.

All this in a thread where government wants to rip down Apple encryption while posters want to tear down the walled garden. Buy an android if all this is important to you.

I think my issue here, is there is no law saying the app is illegal. The government pressured Apple to remove a perfectly legal app because they don't like it.

I think most here know I am strongly against forcing Apple open, but this sort of thing is, IMO, the strongest argument in favor of doing so (even if I still don't agree they should be even after thinking hard about this situation).

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apple needs to follow local laws, everybody agrees.

As an aside, I'm actually really pleased we all agree on that.
At times I've wondered if everyone actually does feel that way, especially when it comes to EU regulatory issues.

 

[maflynn]

I think the downsides outweigh any positives, which is turning the Apple ecosystem into a platform for illegal content.

Far too many atrocities were allowed, just because people said they were following orders.

If we citizens permit such invasive actions in the name of convenience, then we invite governmental abuse and our freedoms removed.

 

[I7guy]

I think my issue here, is there is no law saying the app is illegal. The government pressured Apple to remove a perfectly legal app because they don't like it.

I think most here know I am strongly against forcing Apple open, but this sort of thing is, IMO, the strongest argument in favor of doing so (even if I still don't agree they should be even after thinking hard about this situation).

We all know free speech is an illusion. Open and vape apps are legal also. They aren’t illegal per see but banned the platform. This app should be developed for android and siide reloaded if the intent is show the world ice operations. Or do a website.

 

[I7guy]

As an aside, I'm actually really pleased we all agree on that.
At times I've wondered if everyone actually does feel that way, especially when it comes to EU regulatory issues.

Nobody ever claimed otherwise. Doesn’t mean the local laws are good, great or accomplish their intended end. Or they shouldn’t be challenged.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I'm refreshed to see how abhorrent John Gruber finds the ICEBlock / Apple doing the bidding of the State situation to be. I've quibbled with John's takes on many things over the years, but not here.

Here he's spot on.

Apple’s decision shows that developers cannot trust the App Store to distribute apps that anyone in the Trump administration might “object to”.

But, exactly as many critics of the App-Store-as-exclusive-distribution-point-for-native-software model have long warned about, it’s proven to be a choke point that Apple was unwilling to defend. Apple frequently invokes the word trust as a reason for the App Store model. But their treatment of ICEBlock indicates they are untrustworthy when it comes to showing any sort of backbone regarding Trump’s mad-king slide into authoritarianism, and thus, so too is the entire iOS platform in jurisdictions like the US, where the App Store remains the exclusive distribution source.

AltStore State of the Union

Link to: https://rileytestut.com/blog/2025/10/07/evolving-altstore-pal/

daringfireball.net

 

[turbineseaplane]

John's on fire here, yet again.
Great stuff

Wiley Hodges’s Open Letter to Tim Cook Regarding ICEBlock

Link to: https://substack.com/inbox/post/175351960

daringfireball.net

 

[MBAir2010]

Spoiler: just an epiphany of mine over  and freedoms not gospel.

anyone remember what happened in 2016 after  was asked to relieve data from a phone used by a criminal (now from wiki):Apple declined to create the software, and a hearing was scheduled for March 22. However, a day before the hearing was supposed to happen, the government obtained a delay, saying it had found a third party able to assist in unlocking the iPhone.

so  will do what ever they seem fit that particular day on apps and national security wise issues, or someone else will!

 

[turbineseaplane]

Spoiler: just an epiphany of mine over  and freedoms not gospel.

anyone remember what happened in 2016 after  was asked to relieve data from a phone used by a criminal (now from wiki):Apple declined to create the software, and a hearing was scheduled for March 22. However, a day before the hearing was supposed to happen, the government obtained a delay, saying it had found a third party able to assist in unlocking the iPhone.

so  will do what ever they seem fit that particular day on apps and national security wise issues, or someone else will!

Yep, absolutely. Excellent point.

 

[I7guy]

While some might not like it the iOS App Store belongs to Apple. And Apple did what it thought best. This to me, is not a reason to bust open the App Store and double down on the bad side of the app market market.

I could see some reasons why this app got the reception it did. And if the public reacts negatively, it will show up in apples financials.

 

[Luis Ortega]

If one is located in the EU you can side load. But no it’s not a good reason to “bring down” the walled garden. What app was removed?

No one is trying to bring down your walled garden. You are free to stay in there if you like. Others would like the freedom to choose.