UK Government Seeking Access to Encrypted Messaging Apps in Wake of London Attack

The problem is not Tim Cook. Terrorism gives governments legitimacy to spy on honest people and collect information and it's been that way since 9/11 it is always easier to attempt to control people when they are afraid or living in a state of fear.

Also when it comes to terrorism, it's the media that is the problem, they sensationalise it, and turn idiots into celebrities . The only looser in this is the average joe that losses thier civil rights and lives in fear cause the media remind us daily
 
Politician (usually right-wing)

Have you never heard of Jaqueline Smith? She was the Labour Home Secretary under whose watch the most egregious civil rights abuses were made law. It was Cameron (with a little prodding from Clegg) that helped rewind some of the more flagrant abuses.

The attacker was a Brit, born and raised in the UK as Adrian Russell Elms. He did not change his name to Khalid Masood until decades later. No amount of blocking immigration would have prevented this.

It would have harmed the response to the attack, however, as a significant amount of British emergency crews and medical staff have an immigration background.

I said non-indigenous Brits. He wasn't an indigenous Briton, his genetic makeup does not fit anywhere on this map: www.nature.com/nature/journal/v519/n7543/full/nature14230.html

Massive third world migration has been an unmitigated disaster for Western countries: http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/
 
So would The Right Honourable Amber Rudd like to provide unfettered access to her personal communications / banking / emails? I doubt it.

Of course, such a rule would make sure to keep MP's exempt.

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I'm of the conservative mindset through and through, but the sooner the older generations of MP's vacate office the better. Give the younger generations who seemingly understand these things a chance.

If your spouse or child was killed in one of these attacks, would you still be making snippy comments about Amber Rudd, who has more responsibility for public safety than you do?
 
Amber , he was on your file....no amount of access is going to counter incompetence .

Just so I'm clear, you're saying that this attack showed incompetence on the part of the Security Services? Specifically how?
 
Do you want to bet it will be a deal where Freedom of Movement only applies to Americans wishing to come to the UK but not the other way around?

Well, the US Constitution would prevent UK residents from voting in the US, but they way that is handled is that US residents in the UK cannot vote. I doubt anything asymmetrical would be negotiated. In any case the irony is that Brexit might not result in the immigration-free UK many seem to want.
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Have you never heard of Jaqueline Smith? She was the Labour Home Secretary under whose watch the most egregious civil rights abuses were made law. It was Cameron (with a little prodding from Clegg) that helped rewind some of the more flagrant abuses.

it depends on whether or not one counts 'New Labour' as 'right-wing'. ;) But anyway I said usually for a reason.
 
If your spouse or child was killed in one of these attacks, would you still be making snippy comments about Amber Rudd, who has more responsibility for public safety than you do?

You can't just make a blanket statement along the lines of 'encryption on messenging apps is bad' without understanding its implications in the greater society as was seemingly the case here. All day it has been taken out of context in the media and it really erks me that the general public are 'happy' with this stance.

There is no doubt (nor what it mentioned as such) that the attacks in London were a travesty. They were and as anyone I would be distraught if something like this were to happen to my loved ones. Encryption isn't the cause, seemingly radicalism is. Just because the information is there doesn't mean that the Governement should have access to it by right.

Why not treat the cause, rather than affecting the public as a whole.
 
If your spouse or child was killed in one of these attacks, would you still be making snippy comments about Amber Rudd, who has more responsibility for public safety than you do?

My family are willing to take that risk, and if the worst should happen, so be it. More people in the UK are killed by water than by terrorists, and 'defending our way of life' includes opposing overreactions by knee-jerk politicians hell-bent on gaining more power and curbing individual rights.
 
In the time it took to read this article about a handful of deaths, hundreds died from hunger in Africa.

Yea, leave privacy alone U.K. and focus on real issues.
 
OR governments can stop waging illegal wars and marginalizing minorities from the very same regions. But that wouldn't further the agenda of the power hungry, would it?
 
She's either technologically clueless, or using other people's suffering as an excuse to make a power grab.
Why does it have to be one or the other?

Less flippantly, this is opportunism of the highest order. And the media will stoke the fire that lets the politicians get away with it, then wail loudly at the loss of liberty.
 
Typical responses in here, your all MUCH happier to use social media that actively supports terrorist activities then support national security, what you all think security is to invade and blow up other countries?

If these companies don't give access I can see international laws being drawn up to force them and they won't be able to stop it, and that'll be worst then letting them provide access on their own terms.

People on here are as short sighted as politicians. Case in point are those going on about the West invading other countries, fine, stop working and paying taxes then because you are funding those wars and weapons developments with your taxes.


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More people in London die from push-bike accidents each year (certainly if comparing over the last 10 years) than from any 'terrorist' attack.

Let's put this into perspective.

Would being able to have read any text message have stopped this murder? No.

We must fight for privacy.

The ignorance in this comment... that's because of the tireless work carried out by the countries security forces foiling endless terrorist plots...

So you are saying that is perfectly fine for someone to drive a 40 ton lorry into a mass crowd of innocent people like has happened, killing anyone from young children to old people, all because more people die on push bikes....

I think YOUR the one who needs perspective.
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You can't just make a blanket statement along the lines of 'encryption on messenging apps is bad' without understanding its implications in the greater society as was seemingly the case here. All day it has been taken out of context in the media and it really erks me that the general public are 'happy' with this stance.

There is no doubt (nor what it mentioned as such) that the attacks in London were a travesty. They were and as anyone I would be distraught if something like this were to happen to my loved ones. Encryption isn't the cause, seemingly radicalism is. Just because the information is there doesn't mean that the Governement should have access to it by right.

Why not treat the cause, rather than affecting the public as a whole.

And the implications are supporting social media systems that actively support terrorism because terrorists use those systems, and you want the security and privacy protected at all costs!
I'm more then willing to bet most on here wouldn't sleep at night if they truly knew the dreadful acts that are planned that are stopped every year by security services. Yet when it comes to helping those security services save lives, it's endless protests if it means giving them access to social media services.

FYI these security services will just hack their way in, they actively loo for ways to remotely hack phones, their was even a job advert for engineers for MI5 to do just that! But why should they be forced to hack in? People would really rather have their data entrusted to corporations selling their data for money then allow security services to get court orders and access social media strings made by terrorists.
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Also when it comes to terrorism, it's the media that is the problem, they sensationalise it, and turn idiots into celebrities . The only looser in this is the average joe that losses thier civil rights and lives in fear cause the media remind us daily

I won't argue against that! It's been never ending front page news on television and in the papers since last Thursday! I don't think they could do more coverage if they tried!


Look people, I agree it may seem a less likeable route to allow security services access to social media, but I also feel the arrogance against the idea needs to be dropped, the west has pretty much allowed and created these terrorists (and I mean that as in ALL Of us in the West), so we should also accept we need to allow access to help stop what we have helped to create.
 
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Why is my government so collasally stupid?

Just to point out the obvious; wasn't this a lone wolf attack? How would intercepting whatsapp messages have helped at all?

Second; no, no, no and no. If you are so technically stupid a politician to think this is a good idea or would ever work then I feel you are really not intelligent or qualified enough to be making this sorts of mass dracnonian decisions.

It scares me because they are so simple as to think this is all fine and why would anyone have a problem with it. To me this is the sort of power the Stasi or Gestapo couldn't have believed possible, they had to expend a lot of effort and manpower intercepting letters and phone calls. Now they can just dragnet entire populations and filter the information any way they please.

Wasn't is Goebells who said something like 'if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear'?

I'll take a once in 12 year terror attack instead of giving up every single bit of privacy thankyou very much. This isn't about terror though is it, it's about the state having control over us. I hate these politicians.
 
The closing remarks on this BBC article sums things up for me:

"Even if, say, the UK was to ban encryption or mandate weaknesses be built into WhatsApp and iMessage, those with nefarious intent would simply obtain encryption products from other sources.

"These responses are kneejerk reactions by those who have little understanding of the efficacy and implications of what they're actually proposing."
[doublepost=1490650168][/doublepost]Basically if your remove encryption from the likes of whatsapp etc then do people really think that the terrosits will shrug their shoulders and say it was good while it lasted?

They will find other means to hide their communication, even reverting to good old face to face private chats. Then you're back to square one.
 
Just so I'm clear, you're saying that this attack showed incompetence on the part of the Security Services? Specifically how?

Them having access to WhatsApp messages would not have prevented this.

well you tell me, this guy was know to the authorities . He does such an act and we loose more privacy and rights! Seems like and excuse and incompetence to me . Let's reward the government each time they fail to stop an arrack with even more powers to spy on us. Not rewarding incompetence ?
 
Bollocks!

WhatsApp saves all your chat contents on Google or iCloud by default. Facebook might not have access but both companies have unencrypted access to that content.
 
well you tell me, this guy was know to the authorities . He does such an act and we loose more privacy and rights! Seems like and excuse and incompetence to me . Let's reward the government each time they fail to stop an arrack with even more powers to spy on us. Not rewarding incompetence ?

Answering my question with "you tell me" is hardly a convincing argument. Again, please explain how last week's attack demonstrates incompetence on the part of the Security Services.
 
Answering my question with "you tell me" is hardly a convincing argument. Again, please explain how last week's attack demonstrates incompetence on the part of the Security Services.

You missed the clues I left in my reply. If the word incompetence offends you, ignore it . I actually have lots of respect for the security services, but none for amber or politicians who react like this, its thier decisions and incompetence that leads to us loosing rights so thanks I'm not playing .

Anyway you are the one trying to say I blamed the security services . Not my words , yours
 
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Do you want to bet it will be a deal where Freedom of Movement only applies to Americans wishing to come to the UK but not the other way around?

I hope not. Anything that asymmetrical wouldn't be tolerated by the UK public, and for good reason. I suspect that any UK government would simply drop freedom of movement rather than allow that to occur. Perhaps this might start with student visa's at first and gradually apply to other people needing to move between the UK and US.
 
Have you never heard of Jaqueline Smith? She was the Labour Home Secretary under whose watch the most egregious civil rights abuses were made law. It was Cameron (with a little prodding from Clegg) that helped rewind some of the more flagrant abuses.



I said non-indigenous Brits. He wasn't an indigenous Briton, his genetic makeup does not fit anywhere on this map: www.nature.com/nature/journal/v519/n7543/full/nature14230.html

Massive third world migration has been an unmitigated disaster for Western countries: http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/

Research on that topic is updated and found his findings to be incorrect specifically as he determined causality.
Now, you can believe anything you want about immigration and that is your choice.
 
This is so simple to solve yet these "elite" have no idea. Shall I suggest a solution???

Tim Cook has a way to access any iPhone, iPad or mac with a hidden way. He has a way to drop everything that's been done to a memory card. Anything like this happens, the country goes to Apple and on camera opens the product with a few witnesses from the general public and once they have the info needed, Tim Cook signs out and it's back to secure.

It isn't the back door that people fear, it's he back door open to every agency in the world, most of which they don't trust.

Then family members start disappearing and we get the "you either do this off camera or..."
No. Don't think will work either.
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You can't just make a blanket statement along the lines of 'encryption on messenging apps is bad' without understanding its implications in the greater society as was seemingly the case here. All day it has been taken out of context in the media and it really erks me that the general public are 'happy' with this stance.

There is no doubt (nor what it mentioned as such) that the attacks in London were a travesty. They were and as anyone I would be distraught if something like this were to happen to my loved ones. Encryption isn't the cause, seemingly radicalism is. Just because the information is there doesn't mean that the Governement should have access to it by right.

Why not treat the cause, rather than affecting the public as a whole.

Band-Aids on major wounds. Back door, remove all encryption, and they will find something else to use. The request is folly.
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OR governments can stop waging illegal wars and marginalizing minorities from the very same regions. But that wouldn't further the agenda of the power hungry, would it?

What exactly is an "illegal" war?
 
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