UK Retailer Claims September iPod Touch Refresh to Bring 5-MP Camera, HD Video Recording, FaceTime, and More

[bobthedino]

The Register reports that the guy who made these claims was pretty clear that this was just his own speculation:

http://www.reghardware.com/2010/07/08/john_lewis_ipod_non_leak/

 

[Zunjine]

Anyone claiming the iPod Touch won't be given some serious attention is talking crazy talk. iOS devices are the future of Apple - we know this. The Touch is vital as a 'gateway' device and as an entry level device for those not in the iPhone/iPad income bracket. A kid with an iPod Touch will almost certainly go on to be an iPhone owner if only because he/she has a bunch of apps already.

I think we can expect, at the minimum, the front camera and FaceTime, the Retina display and the Gyro. I suspect it'll look like a cross between the iPhone 4 and the current iPod Touch - metal back but with a more squared off design would be my guess. They want to keep the 'family' feel but not make them so similar that you can't tell which is which.

I have my doubts about the 5MP camera simply because it would muddy the waters and push up the price - not to mention require a thicker device. I think we'll see the A4 chip in there though. It would make no sense to have two iDevices running on an A4 and the third still using an off-the-shelf chip. I'm 50/50 on the increased RAM. I understand it was included in the iPhone 4 because of the high def video recording.

Either way, an iPod Touch with Retina and FaceTime would be a fantastic product and real (I mean REAL) competition for Nintendo and Sony in the handheld game space.

 

[Bubba Satori]

They already released the new iPod, its the iPhone 4 with no reception ... and a bigger harddisk.

Wow! You are funny. First class humor there from someone who doesn't even own an iPhone 4 and hence can't really comment on the reception issue... No reception issues here... Does that mean I have an iPhone 4 or a really cool iPod that makes phone calls to?

Is it true that zombies and cultists don't have a sense of humor?

 

[YoGramMamma]

i hope so

"iChat 6, now with FaceTime"

Anyone else see this? That figure could also reflect Mac sales.

What they also need to do while they're working on the new iChat is OPTIMIZE that stuff. It uses 35-40 percent of my 2.8 Core 2 Duo, yet it looks just OK... on the iphone 4 it looks way better and it does it on a freaking cell phone! Time to get that optimization on Apple!

 

[bushido]

but wouldn't it compete with the iPhone a bit too much?

 

[procrastinasn]

This is interesting. I always thought that Apple intentionally withheld features from the iPod Touch in order to try to persuade people to go with the iPhone. Putting a 5 MP camera w/flash, front camera, Facetime, and improved display on the Touch seems great for consumers, but also removes a lot of the incentive for people to buy iPhones, thus depriving Apple of 2 years of monthly revenue from customers.

That's true.. I remember when I first bought my iPod Touch 1G, I thought of it as "an iPhone without the phone".. later to realize that it didn't stop at that.. There are tons of reasons why the iPhone is superior than the iPod Touch, and I do not see Jobs changing that anytime soon. Why compete with your own product (that makes wayyy more money)?

Here is what I think they are going to do..

16 GB iPod Touch 3rd Gen...$199
32 GB iPod Touch with all innovations from iPhone 4...$299
64 GB iPod Touch with all innovations from iPhone 4...$399

Also I think it is possible that they will have a 128 GB version. If that happens, I think it is safe to say that the iPod Classic will cease to exist.

all innovations? you're kidding right?
and do you realize how much 128gb of flash memory will cost?

I, for one, want to see all the features of the iPhone 4 (minus the actual phone parts) make it into the next iPod touch.

A lot of carriers (such as those in Canada) are asking way too much and giving way too little in return for our money. There's also no competition to speak of, they all offer extremely similar packages for extremely similar prices. So no iPhone for me in the foreseeable future.

So please, add the higher resolution display, the 5MP back camera with video recording capabilities, the front facing camera for FaceTime, the gyroscope, the GPS... everything but the phone. Use the same casing as the iPhone to keep things simple and use the extra space for a bigger battery.

That's not going to happen.. It hasn't for 3 generations.

What I'd want the touch to be...and I know this will always be a pipe dream...but be EXACTLY like the iPhone 4, just without the phone part. Retina display, same camera, same GPS, same gyroscope, same video recording stuff, same everything. I just don't need or want a phone. I don't want to sign away 2 years of my life and $55 bucks a month on a gadget. I know many many others need the phone part, but there are plenty of us out here that don't.

In fact, I'd wish they would do it as a cross between an iPad 3G and the iPhone 4. Same hardware as the iPhone 4...sans the phone....and make it Wife/3G with the same plan you get with the iPad 3G, where you can go month-to-month and opt-out or opt-in at any time.

Again, I'm sure this will NEVER happen because it would sell vast quantities and it's something that people would love to have....but there's always a "gotcha" when it comes to these things.

I've got the feeling that Apple could care less about "selling vast quantities" if their only contracted device's sales goes down the drain.
What will they want to sell more? iPhone 4's or iPod touch 4G's?

Just a bunch of wishful thinking. Not gonna happen.

Reasons:
- already mentioned: iPod is too thin and they are not gonna make it thicker
- even tho iPod touch is still selling pretty well, the iPod is on the decline, they are not gonna invest too much into this product
- two cameras + microphone are costly. flash prices have not come down, so that would decrease their margin quite a lot
- I never got the idea of having a camera in it. Most people with iPods also carry a phone with a camera around. So they are not gonna buy the iPod for the camera.
- they never bothered integrating the camera feature of the Nano into iTunes properly, right? So much love for this feature...
- for Facetime you need a microphone. That would also enable VoIP calls and I have hunch that Apple doesn't want that. That would move the iPod too close to the iPhone.

- gyroscope is pretty likely, doesn't cost much and extends the appeal of the iPod as gaming device

I like your reasons, but there's just one problem.. I'm pretty sure you can VoIP on your iPod touch, using a mic on some headphones (like those provided). FaceTime is inevitable for the new iPod touch.. How does Jobs expect to sell 10's of millions if they only have 1 item that has FaceTime?

It seems to me that if they planned on adding FaceTime to the iPod Touch, they would need to implement two other features that the Touch currently lacks as well: a microphone and a speaker.

That is, unless they plan on making people use the ear buds with mic.

I don't think adding a mic is costly.. and I'm pretty sure the iPod touch has a speaker..

Exactly. They have to draw a line somewhere to differentiate the two devices. Making the Touch virtually identical to the iPhone is about the dumbest thing that Apple could do, from a financial standpoint.




Yes, you need the earbuds with the mic, or another kind of mic, like the Thumbtack.

Someone who understands!

Unless I'm mistaken, Apple gets a percentage of every iPhone user's monthly bill. That's monthly revenue that they can count on for at least 24 months. Common sense says that if you're earning money every month from iPhone customers, you give it premium features that will entice people to sign a 2-year contract with AT&T. If you make the iPod Touch identical to the iPhone, then the incentive for people to leave their current phone carrier and sign a contract with AT&T is out the window. They can stay where they are, buy an iPod Touch, and have all the same features, all without paying anything to Apple outside of the initial purchase. That's why it makes no business sense to make them identical. You're running a huge risk of killing your own profits. The smartest thing that Apple can do is to give the new Touch a couple of features that the iPhone 4 has (new design, front and rear cameras, faster processor) without giving it all of the iPhone 4's features. That way you still upgrade the Touch, but still leave enough premium features exclusive to the iPhone to try to lure people into signing that contract.




If you don't want to switch to AT&T or pay an ETF, and the iPod Touch gives you literally everything the iPhone has minus the phone, then you'll buy the Touch. That's exactly what I did, until I decided that I was tired of carrying two devices.

Very nice

How many people would pay a 2-year contract to get just a few more features?

Everyone who has an iPhone contract right now is doing that.

I'm sure there are many, many people who started out with iPod Touches and moved up to the iPhone. I know of about a dozen myself. It's the gateway drug.

I'm a victim as well.. Got annoying carrying two devices in my pockets..

That doesn't make any more sense. You don't get all the features with a Touch. It isn't a phone. They don't compete with each other. The touch will not cannibalize iPhone sales.

You will have minimal success trying to sell a PMP to someone that actually wants a Phone.

This is the kind of armchair business arguments you get when people don't think it through.

Limiting the touch will not sell more IP4s, it will sell less IPTs. As competitors that aren't laboring under such illusions will not limit their PMPs.

Even when cannibalization arguments have some merit (which they don't here) you are better off cannibalizing your own sales than having a competitor do it for you.

I'll answer that with another quote right before:

Plus the camera & 3G. If I could have gotten an iPod Touch with a full camera and 3G data plan (as some are wishing for), I never would have bought an iPhone. I'd just use Skype or Vonage Mobile for making calls.

Just to clarify for all the fellas, I'm not wishing that the Touch doesn't get these new features. I just don't see Apple doing it. If I'm wrong, then that's fantastic for the consumers.

That makes no sense. We are talking about the potential lost iPhone sales that a fully featured touch would cause (nill).

If you already own an iPhone and are looking for an upgrade. You are not going to choose an IPT4 over a IP4. That is simply senseless.

No one who wants a phone, is going to buy a Touch becuase it has the other features of the iPhone, but isn't a phone. If they want a phone, they going to get the iPhone.

I think you have your periods and commas switch.. Trying to understand that:
If the iPod touch has EVERYTHING that the iPhone 4 had besides the "phone" capability, and if it is contract-free, I'd probably leave my iPhone 4 asap. Really, I use my iPhone for lots of things other than the "phone" part.

 

[fxtech]

Nah, the BOM cost of the iPhone 4 is like $188. Even if they rip out the cellular gear, the BOM for the iPod touch 4 would still be probably around $170.

There's no way they're going to essential sell the iPod touch at cost.

Apple makes so much on apps, they could GIVE AWAY the phones/ipods and still make a boatload of $$$.

 

[Alistair1990]

I know that this is a rumour site and this story is a rumour, but suitable for the front page? Really?

I was there today and, as mentioned with the Register link above, the guy made it very clear that the contents on that slide was his own predictions. The event had nothing to do with Apple and, while the details posted may seem reasonable, they seemed to be merely placeholders to say 'iPods will probably be updated in September, so we expect them to sell well over Christmas'.

 

[herr_neumann]

"iChat 6, now with FaceTime"

Anyone else see this? That figure could also reflect Mac sales.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

but wouldn't it compete with the iPhone a bit too much?

I think ol' Steve is a devious man. First he upsets the cell phone industry, then he starts to go around it! That's one thing I'd love to see.

I think it will be interesting. He may be able to risk ticking off AT&T as they get closer and closer to ending their exclusive deal.

 

[TripHop]

Tripple Dippers Are A Lot Too

The same number of people who currently own an iPhone and therefore have already chosen the iPhone features over the iPod touch features.

I buy a new iPod Touch top of the line every year just like I buy a new iPhone every year and will also be buying each new top of the line iPad too. So not everyone only wants one or the other. I don't trust the iPhone's battery life to use it for music.

Incedentally, has anyone noticed that iOS4 seems to have shortened battery life on all the old devices?

 

[Outrun1986]

Well my thoughts is they have to have something big in order to get current touch owners to upgrade, if they only give the gyro, retina display and more ram I don't think that will be enough to get current touch owners to upgrade, and you know Apple wants touch owners to upgrade every year. They have to make it do something that the touch does not do right now, and that is facetime.

I personally REALLY want to buy one of these but they need to give me something that the current touch does not provide, believe it or not there are adults like me who do not want to pay a huge cell phone bill every month but would like the option of having a digital camera or video camera with them in a super slim device. I would also like the option of video recording so that I could replace my ancient flip video camera.

There isn't any other company that makes a device that is not a phone that does video recording, wifi, video games and a camera in one device, I am sick of carrying around a bulky digital camera, bulky flip video and a Nintendo DS for video games, I want it all in one device.

Apple can get a sale from me and I am willing to pay up to $300 for it if they include a camera that does video recording (it does not even have to be HD video) and takes pictures. Any other features would be a bonus for me.

IMO the App store is totally worth it (and I don't even have a touch yet), Nintendo should be ashamed of themselves, other than their IP's like mario and Pokemon I can get the same games from the App store for free or very very cheap. If I buy Nintendo I have to pay $20 for even a shovelware game that I cannot even try out a demo of, not to mention the flaw that when you download DSi Ware from the Nintendo store it is tied to that DSi so if your system breaks or you upgrade the DSiWare cannot be recovered. Some of the games on DSiWare are the same games that are in the app store, they just cost more money with Nintendo. Apple must be doing something right because almost every kid I talk to is ditching their DS for an iPod touch..

 

[ThugZilla]

the iPod touch will get a FFC, but I don't see it getting a 5MP camera with video recording, that would somewhat cannibalize iPhone sales

 

[Lara F]

For the phone capability?

Nope. For the permanent internet capability. My first gen touch lasted one year before I bit the bullet and got a 3G.

btw, I find the touch *much* less comfortable than the iPhone to hold due to the sharper edges and if the thinness is really what's keeping Apple from adding a camera, all I can say is It's not "sleek", it's less freaking functional.

But as someone who'd rather not extend an AT&T contract till LTE and Verizon come out, I'd be very very tempted to get an iPod Touch that really had all the features of the iPhone4 including the retina display. More reason to hold off on an upgrade even if the whites do come out this month...

 

[iMacmatician]

Everyone who has an iPhone contract right now is doing that.

You might want to look at my subsequent posts on that point. Of course I wasn't counting phone capabilities.

Nope. For the permanent internet capability.

Which comes from 3G - a phone related feature.

 

[organerito]

I was thinking to skip this year's iPod Touch, but if it has the Micro-Sim feature, I'll get it. HD video recording is jut a little plus for me.

 

[wizard]

Why would you be upset? Why? Why?

isnt FaceTime supposed to be one of those ya know...PHONE features. Id be kind of upset if they start putting it on every new device...

The first thing I thought about when I heard about FaceTime was that Appple would be selling many devices with this feature real soon. My expectation is that a app for the Macs will come out real soon now. I'm actually mixed on this happening on the Touch as it is Apples lowend touch device. However I can see it happening. Also I could see apple offering up a suitable desktop video phone, which would sort of be like an iPad but smaller and optimized for video from the desktop. I can even see Apple TV getting into the game. Some of these will happen simply because Steve expects to sell tens of millions of FaceTime capable devices this year. In effect Apple has already said more devices than iPhone will have this tech.

So it is coming but I have to wonder why you object? To make FaceTime a true industry standard Apple will need to get it running on as many devices as possible, as fast as possible. It is all about getting enough market share to get other manufactures to adopt the protocol. Frankly if you actually want to use FaceTime, it will only be valuable to you if a lot of people are reachable on compatible devices. The last thing Apple wants to see happen is to have people forget about FaceTime because there is few device to initiate a conversation with.

All in all good rumors. Done right I might give up my iPhone for such a device especially if it has a cellular data modem.


Dave

 

[spydr]

I don't buy the sim/data angle on the iPod touch. No face-time either — not unless, Apple changes the way it works in iPhone - i.e. without it being only as a part of a phone call.

If it does come with pretty much every feature that the new iPhone has, there is now way it is going to sell for $199 - the current entry price and sweet spot for the device (the same phone without contract, will cost 3x that much, whilst merely adding a minor feature called 'phone', which any $5 device is capable of these days)

 

[iMacmatician]

I don't think the iPod touch will have data either.

 

[goobot]

this is so fake.

 

[wizard]

Good question.

It will be interesting to see what price points they hit at. Will Apple have an iPod Touch with camera, GPS, Gyro, Retina, A4 etc and still hit a starting price point of $199? Or are they going to differentiate the line even more with low and higher end versions?

Apple has even said that the Touch is Apples low end entry into the world of iOS devices. Due to that I can see them coming out with two models. A low end Touch and a higher end model with FaceTime and hopefuly a larger screen. The lowend model would be designed from the ground up to be cheap. The larger device would have the new hardware, optics and so forth.

Apple will likely be completely overhauling the iPod line to try to regain lost sales momentum. In part they need to put features people desire into lower cost hardware. I could see a base Touch model hitting $150. There is a possibility of doing this on a hybrid Nano platform.

Yep I'm speculating that Nano would get some sort of Touch capability. Possibly in a slightly wider case. As iPhone has shown it is very possible for Apple to get a high pixel count display into a Nano.


Dave

 

[iMacmatician]

Apple has even said that the Touch is Apples low end entry into the world of iOS devices. Due to that I can see them coming out with two models. A low end Touch and a higher end model with FaceTime and hopefuly a larger screen. The lowend model would be designed from the ground up to be cheap. The larger device would have the new hardware, optics and so forth.

In a way they are partly doing that already with the iPod touch 8 GB and the iPod touch 32/64 GB. I can see such a distinction getting larger in the future.

 

[xandizitxu]

I wish the GPS on the iPod, it makes more sense then iPhone.

 

[Speedy2]

No they wouldn't. I'm one of those people that really want the rear facing camera from the iP4 to come to the iPod Touch. I carry a company paid cell phone, and my current Touch wherever I go. The camera on my crappy phone is well, crappy. This would be huge to be able to capture stills and short videos of my little guy learning all sorts of new things. However, I'm not about to start paying $65/month minimum for that benefit...

You should realise that you are member of minority. People don't want to carry around multiple devices. That's why camera phones became popular in the first place. Declining iPod sales prove that this is true for MP3 players, too.
Apple saw this coming long time ago and released the iPhone just in time. Now all their resources are directed that way with the iPod touch as some sort of cheap-to-build by-product that will last maybe another 2-3 years, but it will fade away pretty quickly after that.

 

[Speedy2]

Because not everyone wants to pay for a data plan.

Data plans will come down in price and become a regular part of any plan. Not tomorrow, but in 2-3 years. That's when the iPod sales will fall into nowhere land. The sales are already falling which means people are looking elsewhere.