UK Statutory Rights - antenna issue

[Holty123]

Finger

Using my wife's £40 Nokia I can get a O2 signal in our back room. With my iPhone 3GS I can't. Does that means my 3GS was unfit for purpose?

Really, I'm not throwing this back in anyone's face. I also have a brand new phone that doesn't work and I expect Apple to do something about it. I'm just pointing out that the actual legal situation isn't just as basic as people are saying. That's why companies spend millions of dollars hiring legal experts. So why tell me to grow up?

"I also have a brand new phone that doesn't work"
really it doesn't work? or you cant move your finger out the way? for me this is a tiny inconvenience for what i my opinion is the best iPhone ever

 

[glanv]

So does the Nanny State let you sue of you have to reinstall Windows 7 because it keeps crashing? I had to that after just one month. So where's MY statutory rights?

What's this got to do with being a 'Nanny State'? Statutory law is there to protect the nation, and if a product is not fit for purpose then the consumer should (and has in the UK) be able to get a replacement or a refund. As for the Win 7 analogy, that is a different matter altogether as there is also hardware involved that probably isn't made by MS. If one could prove that Win 7 was not fit for purpose then they would be entitled to a remedy.

Your statutory rights are set out by the legal system in your country, I suggest you investigate what they are rather than asking UK citizens what your (US) statutory rights are?!

 

[sananda]

Not really - if we're talking about "fit for purpose" then the fact is that I CAN make calls on my iPhone 4 - that's the purpose of my phone. I agree it doesn't work if I hold it in a certain way, but that's where the legal argument would come in, basically can you make calls on this phone or not? Is it reasonable to ask people to only hold it in a certain way?

My opinion is that it's not reasonable to expect people to hold the phone in a certain way if they don't want to and, therefore, they are entitled to a refund if that's what they want. The question really is whether people are genuinely having problems making and receiving calls.

 

[ol4ERTH]

Who is this a problem for though?

So here is a my take on this:
The reception on o2 in my house is pretty bad, the reception on o2 at work is pretty good. If i'm at home and my hands are damp in certain places I can make my iPhone4 drop a couple of bars of signal, if my hands are dry then I can get it to drop maybe 1 bar, if at all. If i'm a work then whatever I do I cannot get my iPhone 4 to do this. When i'm actually talking on the phone I would never naturally hold the phone in a way that would in anyway degrade the signal. If i'm using the speaker phone then holding the phone in a way that degrades the signal would also result in covering the microphone so that would never be an issue. The only scenario in which in actual use i can think of this being a problem is when reading, and thats not really a problem because it requires no band width. It's not a problem for streaming video because you would never hold the phone in this way to watch video on the phone.

 

[tallyho]

yea move your finger out the way!

Not sure how you're holding your phone, but it's nothing to do with fingers. It's the base of your left thumb that causes the problem. It's tricky to hold the phone without supporting it with the fleshy part of the base of your thumb/palm of your hand, unless you somehow just hold it with your finger tips? Obviously (as a right handed person) I'm holding the phone in my left hand.

Nobody's getting hysterical about this - of course it's just a phone (although it did cost £600), and if after a week or so the dropping of calls and loss of data connection doesn't improve then I may return it. It's a real shame though, because my 3G did not have this issue, and in other respects the iPhone 4 is a cracking piece of kit.

 

[NightFox]

My opinion is that it's not reasonable to expect people to hold the phone in a certain way if they don't want to and, therefore, they are entitled to a refund if that's what they want. The question really is whether people are genuinely having problems making and receiving calls.

Ahh, and that's exactly it, it's your opinion (and mine too!), and Apple have a different opinion, hence why I was trying to make my original point that it's not just a simple matter of quoting a section or two from SOGA, you need to look at the rest of the act that defines things like 'fit for purpose' and in this case, that would probably be an issue for a court to decide on if Apple play hard ball.

Can I make clear I'm affected like everyone else and am not saying this is a non-issue, I'm just trying to explain that issues like this are more legally complex than was being suggested. That being said, in the name of PR, individual retailers like CPW may choose to honour returns made under the basic principals of SOGA.

 

[glanv]

Ahh, and that's exactly it, it's your opinion (and mine too!), and Apple have a different opinion, hence why I was trying to make my original point that it's not just a simple matter of quoting a section or two from SOGA, you need to look at the rest of the act that defines things like 'fit for purpose' and in this case, that would probably be an issue for a court to decide on if Apple play hard ball.

Can I make clear I'm affected like everyone else and am not saying this is a non-issue, I'm just trying to explain that issues like this are more legally complex than was being suggested. That being said, in the name of PR, individual retailers like CPW may choose to honour returns made under the basic principals of SOGA.

Fair points, but the poster did say it's not reasonable. That is the key word as interpreting statutory law is about what a reasonable person would expect. A reasonable person would not expect a phone to lose its signal when it is held.

If a consumer doesn't have any joy with the manufacturer then they can go to trading standards - I don't think this would have to be decided in court, and if it did, it would most likely be the regulatory body that took Apple to court not the individual.

 

[wentwj]

My opinion is that it's not reasonable to expect people to hold the phone in a certain way if they don't want to and, therefore, they are entitled to a refund if that's what they want. The question really is whether people are genuinely having problems making and receiving calls.

So whats the big deal? Are people being refused refunds? This thing came out 2 days ago, and as far as I'm aware, thats well within the return window at any store.

 

[sananda]

Ahh, and that's exactly it, it's your opinion (and mine too!), and Apple have a different opinion, hence why I was trying to make my original point that it's not just a simple matter of quoting a section or two from SOGA, you need to look at the rest of the act that defines things like 'fit for purpose' and in this case, that would probably be an issue for a court to decide on if Apple play hard ball.

It is just my opinion but based on a familiarity with the relevant legislation. Although I must say I don't know about the situation where it's not a simple contract for sale (ie SIM free phones) but provided subsidised as part of a service contract.

 

[sananda]

So whats the big deal? Are people being refused refunds? This thing came out 2 days ago, and as far as I'm aware, thats well within the return window at any store.

I'm not aware of anyone feeling they have to keep something they're not happy with because a return has been refused.

 

[Stiss]

I think the OP is kind of misleading.

Members are now asking things like my wifes 3GS doesn't get reception in our back room, is that unfit for purpose?

Well yes it is fit for purpose it's just that for one reason or another it doesn't work in that room. Some external factor may be inhibiting the signal.

Also OP fails to mention for situations like the one above that after 6 months it's down to YOU to prove to the retailer that it's a inherent fault. Nigh on impossible to do unless you get a certified engineers report at your own cost. The retailer is well within it's right to ask for this before help, it's known as the Burden of Proof.

Even then the retailer decides the outcome after 6 months. Could be a full refund, a refund deducting usage or a replacement. The consumer does not get a say in this by law but may get offered a choice as goodwill.

This is why I hate threads like this, because people like the OP post without knowing the ins and outs and the facts and then it misleads other members.

 

[Holty123]

Not sure how you're holding your phone, but it's nothing to do with fingers. It's the base of your left thumb that causes the problem. It's tricky to hold the phone without supporting it with the fleshy part of the base of your thumb/palm of your hand, unless you somehow just hold it with your finger tips? Obviously (as a right handed person) I'm holding the phone in my left hand.

Nobody's getting hysterical about this - of course it's just a phone (although it did cost £600), and if after a week or so the dropping of calls and loss of data connection doesn't improve then I may return it. It's a real shame though, because my 3G did not have this issue, and in other respects the iPhone 4 is a cracking piece of kit.

I know exactly were the problem area is!
Answer: move your fingers there are many ways you can hold a phone just find one that suits you best to deal with the minor problem, or take it back and get a refund!