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It all depends on usage. Not every notebook Apple makes needs to conform to your particular professional world.
Very true. I almost added a line like "if I spent more time in airports, 3 lbs might be the 'pro' feature that I want most".

So, in the context of the message that I replied to, I think we both agree that one can have a "pro" laptop without an optical drive.
 
It's overkill to include 3G stuff in a laptop as a standard. Make it an option.
It is an option - but there is an internal socket and antennas builtin. You can get 3G without a dongle or PC/express card.

In a case as slim as the MBP that is unlikely to happen.
Then, IMO, the MBP sacrifices usefulness for style.


Smaller footprint: Yes. Smaller package: No.
Yes, but width and depth are sometimes more important than thickness.


Actually more like 6.1mm :)
D#mn sticky period key.... :eek:
 
No seriously, I got $2800 in a bank account, ready to blow whenever I want, and since my MacBook has discoloration and whining, I'm gonna get it replaced as soon as I can be without a Mac for a few weeks. I might pay the difference up to a MacBook Pro, or something like that.:D


How about donating to a poor college student's mac fund :) jk.

I think a 12" would be cool, and I could see me using it, however I need the screen area offered by the 15" or 17" for website design/video editing.
 
I have used my 12" for over 4 years and love it but....I want more speed. If this rumor is true the MBP 12" would be great. Hopefully it will not be slimmed down in features vs the 15 & 17. I will be ordering a new MBP in January so hopefully the 12" will be released then...if not I will go with the 15".
 
I'm still using a 12" PB 1.5Ghz, upgraded to that from a 867mhz 12". I don't want anything significantly bigger than this machine.

The 15" MacBook Pros are way too big for me to carry around. The 13" MacBooks are close to being too big, but they'll do, size wise.

The PowerBook is my daily use machine, at home and at work. At work, it does just fine for a variety of network engineering tasks, but it sure would be nice to be able to run Parallels so I can have additional test environments under FreeBSD. Be nice to be able to run Visio under Windows as well. Virtual PC isn't a practical option for either of these due to performance.

At home, I'd sure like to be able to run Aperture and not have it be painfully slow.

I use my optical drive quite a bit at home and at work, so I wouldn't want to lose that, though having a swappable bay I can use for optical, extra HD or extra battery would be quite nice.

The only thing keeping me from getting a MacBook is the poor performance of Aperture with the integrated graphics. The only thing keeping me from getting a MacBook Pro is the size.

I don't care about cost. I don't want two machines. I'm willing to pay a premium for a powerful, small Apple laptop. I just wish one existed.
 
I don't really hate GMA, I just don't know enough about it.

I am philosophically opposed to shared memory, but it isn't completely awful. Sure you wouldn't want to play games with it, but the GMA 950 in my X60 supports Vista Aero/Glass, for example. So it's not a complete gimp.
 
When I look for "pro" features in a laptop, my list has:

  1. Docking station - so that taking the laptop from my home office to the work office is one-click detach, one-click attach (how "pro" is a mess of various cables for monitor, power, GbE, Kbd/Mouse, USB, ...)
  2. Removeable drive bay - so that I can have a second full-capacity battery, an optical drive, or a second 160 GB disk drive, depending on the task (and 90% of the time the second battery is in there - for 7-8 hours of real-life runtime ;) )
  3. Builtin a/b/g WiFi and 3G (EVDO/HSDPA) - for networking in the office, in the train, just about anywhere in a populated area
  4. Discrete graphics with 256 MiB plus of usable graphics memory
  5. Socketed CPU for easy upgrades (I've gone from Yonah to a Merom running 64-bit Vista)
  6. A case that strong enough to take a few bumps without denting and bending (magnesium-alloy, in my case)
My Dell Latitude D620 has all that and more - in a package that is half a pounder lighter with a smaller footprint than an MBP 15".

Somehow, all these features are much more important than whether the MBP is ¼" thinner than the Dell (that's about 6.1mm, for those of you who don't live in the colonies).

1 - Sorry, but no. The PowerBook Duo is dead long ago, and not really missed by many...the idea of a docking station presumes leaving features for a desktop, and that is not the idea of a pro notebook. You need power AND mobility, and not to waive on features for the sake of a purported "cleanliness". A pro notebook has it all, and doesn't any other cables apart from, perhaps, a mouse.

2 - Yes, but only for those notebooks that have dismal battery life, like most Dells. Instead, an optical drive must STILL be standard, as most internal HDs more than cover the needs of people.

3 - WiFi is already standard, and EVDO/3G are close to nonexistent or not really needed in 99% of the Western world.

4 - Discrete GPU is also standard for any pro notebook, but 256 Mb are debatable...for most users, 128Mb discrete is enough.

5 - Notebooks are not meant for CPU upgrades, although this might be useful for hobbyists.

6 - Strong cases, but hopefully not as bad-looking as those from Dell or pretty much any Windows notebook out there...Apple is still unsurpassed in design of notebooks. And yep, a thin notebook is much more important than most features above noted...it's not easy to overlook that when you carry your stuff around in a bag or suitcase...
 
a 12" MBP will get Apple 1800 of my student priced dollars the day it releases. I am under the impression that owners who held on to 12" PB's have for the most part been holding out for that "same" machine with today's tech.

No, I know that the 12" PB was NOT a true powerbook by the standards set forth by the 15 and 17. However, the improved keyboard, gfx, higher ram capacity (in the earlier models), HD, and proc speed made it an easy upsell for must of us from the ibook.

A 12" MBP may be an irrational choice over a 13" MB given the very small differences that the products represent, but in a lot of cases those small differences are exactly the reason people will go with the better machine.

I'm holding onto my PB until a true 12" gfx enable MBP is here.
(Optical drive or not, I hardly care)
 
1 - Sorry, but no. The PowerBook Duo is dead long ago, and not really missed by many...the idea of a docking station presumes leaving features for a desktop, and that is not the idea of a pro notebook. You need power AND mobility, and not to waive on features for the sake of a purported "cleanliness". A pro notebook has it all, and doesn't any other cables apart from, perhaps, a mouse.

That's funny; HP, Lenovo and Dell all seem to think docking stations for their machines are a pretty cool idea. Every single laptop user in my corporation has a docking station on his desk. And right now Mac docking stations are a fricking joke.
 
I don't really need the optical drive or a big screen. A USB optical drive and an extra screen at home would do the job just fine for me. But Apple, please make it thin and light, and put a "real" graphic card in this thing!
 
12" MacBook Pro! I want it!

I recently bought a Black MacBook to replace my beloved 12" PB. The 867 processor just wasn't cutting it for the work flow anymore. The feature set of the MacBook Pro was enticing, but I don't want a 15" form factor. The macBook won't fit into my Brenthaven Fusion 12, so I will have to buy a new bag, but other than that, I am quite happy with my MacBook. The Core 2 Duo processor really rocks with 2 gig of RAM. However, I would love to have a MacBook Pro in a 12", widescreen or not. I would orphan my MacBook in a flash if Apple intoduces one at Mac World. I am going to be in the Bay Area during Mac World and I am wrangling for a keynote ticket, but I might hang out at the Apple store instead and buy the 12" MBP if it introduced then.
Oh, for those commenting on docking stations, get a life. Docking stations are for desktop replacement portables, not true laptops. Use a laptop on the road, not as a CPU for your office. I use an external monitor and a wireless mouse, so a docking station would be a waste as well as a nuisance to deal with. If that is your main criteria, get a Dell.:)
 
Apple is afraid to put a discrete graphics card in a Macbook. I don't really expect an optical drive in a 12" MBP while keeping the thickness at 1" or thinner with a discrete graphics card. I do expect some sort of dock that contains a dual-layer DVD burner like the Toshiba Libretto U105.

Here are my predictions:

Laptop:
12.1" widescreen
100GB 2.5" hard drive (upgradable to 200GB)
Core 2 Duo 1.66GHz to 2.33GHz Intel processor
1GB SO-DIMM memory upgradable to 4GB
ATI Radeon X1400 graphics
Expresscard slot
0.95 inch thick
iSight cam
Magsafe power
4 pounds
5 hour battery life

Dock:
6X Dual-Layer DVD burner
0.3 - 0.5 inch thick
DVI out

If it's already 0.95" thick, then that is plenty of room to put in an optical drive. Even my cheap lil' MacBook is only 1" thick.
 
That's funny; HP, Lenovo and Dell all seem to think docking stations for their machines are a pretty cool idea. Every single laptop user in my corporation has a docking station on his desk. And right now Mac docking stations are a fricking joke.

Well, if Apple were to base itself on HP, Lenovo or Dell's "coolness" factor, it would be bankrupt by now...most people don't use docks, and never did, especially in companies.

Due to their normal lack of features (or excess thereof), Windows notebooks might draw some little usefulness from docking stations...Macs don't need them.
 
2 - Yes, but only for those notebooks that have dismal battery life, like most Dells. Instead, an optical drive must STILL be standard, as most internal HDs more than cover the needs of people.

3 - WiFi is already standard, and EVDO/3G are close to nonexistent or not really needed in 99% of the Western world.

4 - Discrete GPU is also standard for any pro notebook, but 256 Mb are debatable...for most users, 128Mb discrete is enough.

2 - How can providing a modular bay be a negative? I definitely think all MBPs should ship with an optical drive, but allowing a user to swap it out (or just to remove it for lighter weight) would definitely be neat. A better reason to rule this out is because it would represent more moving parts that can break. If you notice, Macs have been *simplifying* their design, and I think besides aesthetics, another advantage is fewer things to break.

3 - HUH???? :confused: I just don't think it even makes sense to say that 3G is not needed if you already have Wi-Fi. There is NO national Wi-Fi network that has anywhere near the coverage of what 3G will be soon. I myself am a T-Mobile Wi-Fi customer, but that's basically only availalbe at Starbucks and Kinko's. 3G, on the other hand, will have eventually complete coverage in all metro areas. There is just no comparison. But I don't expect Apple to have 3G modems built into Macs quite yet, though. If anything, that functionality can be added through the Express/34 slot.

4 - MBPs are supposed to be PRO machines. Why shouldn't they have 256 MB of video memory if that is available? The 2.33 15" MBP and the 17" MBP both have 256 MB. The only reason the 2.16 MHz model doesn't is pure marketing. There is just not a big enough difference between the 2.16 and 2.33 models since they both have 120 GB hard drives, so the only differentiators are: miniscule CPU bump, 1 GB more RAM, and yes, the extra 128 MB of VRAM.
 
How about donating to a poor college student's mac fund :) jk.

I think a 12" would be cool, and I could see me using it, however I need the screen area offered by the 15" or 17" for website design/video editing.

Well, I'd love to, but I can't find my bankbook right now. How's 2026 sound?:D

Meh, I think I'm going for a 15" instead. That way I won't need the 20" ACD, and I can instead get an AirPort Extreme Base Station with 802.11n to support my MBP. (My MB gets very low reception in my room from our D-link router:D )

I actually though a about a 8-core Mac Pro. Seriously, think:
$1400 (MacBook refund, if I can get it)
$2800 (Bank account)
=$4200

Mac Pro:
Dual Quad 2.33 GHz Clovertown (8 cores, 2x8 MB L2 cache, 2x1336 MHz FSB)
6 GB RAM
750 GB HDD
Ati Radeon X1950XTX
AirPort Extreme 2 + Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
20" Cinema Display with built-in iSight (1920x1200)
Two Superdrives
Wireless KB and Mighty Mouse
Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard
Around $4000 :D

That would leave me only to get some speakerd, which I might refrain from, as I have my wireless Sennheiser HDR 110 headphones.:p

Or a MacBook Pro for around $2300...:D
 
When I look for "pro" features in a laptop, my list has:

  1. Docking station - so that taking the laptop from my home office to the work office is one-click detach, one-click attach (how "pro" is a mess of various cables for monitor, power, GbE, Kbd/Mouse, USB, ...)
  2. Removeable drive bay - so that I can have a second full-capacity battery, an optical drive, or a second 160 GB disk drive, depending on the task (and 90% of the time the second battery is in there - for 7-8 hours of real-life runtime ;) )
  3. Builtin a/b/g WiFi and 3G (EVDO/HSDPA) - for networking in the office, in the train, just about anywhere in a populated area
  4. Discrete graphics with 256 MiB plus of usable graphics memory
  5. Socketed CPU for easy upgrades (I've gone from Yonah to a Merom running 64-bit Vista)
  6. A case that strong enough to take a few bumps without denting and bending (magnesium-alloy, in my case)
My Dell Latitude D620 has all that and more - in a package that is half a pounder lighter with a smaller footprint than an MBP 15".

Somehow, all these features are much more important than whether the MBP is ¼" thinner than the Dell (that's about 6.1mm, for those of you who don't live in the colonies).


- I think that Apple doesn't provide a docking connector or swappable drive bay for the same philosophical reason: they want a MBP to be self-contained and stand on its own, without a need for external devices for everyday use. At work I have a docking connector for my Thinkpad, but the ONLY thing it's really providing is my ethernet connection, and I could just as easily plug in the ethernet cable directly into the side of my Thinkpad. Personally, I don't WANT to switch the keyboard, mouse, and display that I'm using. I like the Thinkpads' and that's what I use. If I was using an MBP for work, I would have the same preference.

- Kudos to Dell for providing 3G connectivity as a BTO option already, but in the MBP world this functionality can be added through the Express/34 slot.

- 256 MB of VRAM *is* available on the MBPs, at least in the 2.33 GHz 15" and the 17" versions. Unfortunately, the "base" 15" MBP only has 128MB to increase the difference between the two 15" models. Stupid apple marketing tricks.

- Sorry, but socketable CPUs is not a "Pro" option, just a "you" option ;) The vast majority of "Pro" users don't consider the CPU upgradability of desktops, much less laptops.

- I would say the MBP cases are rather durable themselves, but the point is you're rather offbase in trying to argue that the Dell has superior engineering for durability/reliability than the MBP. Let me just list some features that are much more important:
* accelerometer to shut off hard drive in case of fall or rapid acceleration. I looked the Dell site and didn't see this for the Dells
* MagSafe adapter, which reduces the likelihood of an accident with the laptop, or of damaging the power socket itself (which would then only be fixed by replacing the motherboard
* in general fewer breakable parts (e.g. magnetic latch)
Let me put it this way: I still see a lot of Titanium PBs and almost never see ancient Dells from that same time period. And if anything the "durability" gap between Apple and Dell has only increased.

And finally, the Dell is smaller and lighter but only because it's 14" instead of 15.4". If you look at the 15.4" Latitude D820, it would be about 6.5 lbs., or almost a pound heavier than the 5.6 lb. MBP. Apple made the *strategic* decision that since "Pro" users of Macs tend to be more graphically oriented, that it's sweet spot was actually at the 15.4" level. And Apple *will* provide a smaller MBP, but it would be at 13" or smaller since 14" would be too close to the 15" models.
 
I hope Apple will launch a 12" model in the pro line, as I believe there is a market for that ultra-portable laptop. If Dell can make a light weight and small X200, I am sure Apple can make it much slicker looking ultra-portable. With the proper docking options and adequate connectivity (Firewire, USB, PC card/Express card, DVI port), the ultra portable is very usable. It's not going to be a power house as it won't be the full feature notebook like MBP.
If Apple dishes out a ultraportable Mac, I would be very interested in purchasing one (but, I would wait for the rev B:) )
 
3 - WiFi is already standard, and EVDO/3G are close to nonexistent or not really needed in 99% of the Western world.

EVDO/3G is a real need for many users including me. WIFI is not available in many locations that would be accessable with EVDO/3G. Maybe you do not need them in Switzerland but they are needed in the USA.
 
- I think that Apple doesn't provide a docking connector or swappable drive bay for the same philosophical reason: they want a MBP to be self-contained and stand on its own, without a need for external devices for everyday use. At work I have a docking connector for my Thinkpad, but the ONLY thing it's really providing is my ethernet connection, and I could just as easily plug in the ethernet cable directly into the side of my Thinkpad.
Odd. Nearly everyone I know prefers to have their 19 inch or larger monitor, full-size keyboard, full-function mouse, power and network all ready and waiting for them via the port replicator - just carry a second power supply in the bag if you need one while travelling. This goes up to something like 99% when talking about small laptops like the x60s. Certainly for something in the 12 inch range a larger display for office use would be pretty much mandatory, and plugging and unplugging that all the time would get old, fast.
 
...although you, as usual, haven't replied to any...
There's not much point - I stated what was important for *me* in *my* professional laptop. You can't tell me that what I said is not my opinion. An argument is not simply contradiction.

...docking station? Plllllllllease...
They've come a long way since Apple's antique "Duo" - you really should see how convenient they are, and how much wear and tear on the laptop they prevent.

I order laptops for my department, and almost every order gets two docking stations (home and work) and three power adapters. (One for each station, and one for mobile use.)

Several other posters here have voiced support for port replicators and docking stations. I'm not alone....
 
After using both my daughter's 12" iBook and 13" WS MacBook

I really liked the 13" WS display, but much prefer the portability
of the 12" model.

My main wish is that Apple would release a " full featured " 12" or 13"
model without crippling the poor thing as they tend to do.
 
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