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When I look for "pro" features in a laptop, my list has:

  1. Docking station - so that taking the laptop from my home office to the work office is one-click detach, one-click attach (how "pro" is a mess of various cables for monitor, power, GbE, Kbd/Mouse, USB, ...)
  2. Removeable drive bay - so that I can have a second full-capacity battery, an optical drive, or a second 160 GB disk drive, depending on the task (and 90% of the time the second battery is in there - for 7-8 hours of real-life runtime ;) )
  3. Builtin a/b/g WiFi and 3G (EVDO/HSDPA) - for networking in the office, in the train, just about anywhere in a populated area
  4. Discrete graphics with 256 MiB plus of usable graphics memory
  5. Socketed CPU for easy upgrades (I've gone from Yonah to a Merom running 64-bit Vista)
  6. A case that strong enough to take a few bumps without denting and bending (magnesium-alloy, in my case)
My Dell Latitude D620 has all that and more - in a package that is half a pounder lighter with a smaller footprint than an MBP 15".

Somehow, all these features are much more important than whether the MBP is ¼" thinner than the Dell (that's about 6.1mm, for those of you who don't live in the colonies).

What!!!! ALMOST EXACTLY what I was thinking, minus the docking station. Things like 256 MB discreet graphics you just can't take for granted. I'm living off my integrated graphics macbook.
 
Docking stations are the most annoying pieces of poop ever. They never seem to work right and the look like ass.

As for a 12" ultraportable....ugggggggggggggggg. I would start drooling instantly at the announcement.

I've been worrying off and on about how I'm going to replace my 12" powerbook (still going strong) when the time comes. I could never use a larger laptop, and I like the metal case so much more than my old iBook or the MacBooks I've played with. The screen size doesn't bother me. I have a 20" monitor that I hook into (yay clamshell mode) when I'm at my desk. No problem there.

I take my 12" everywhere with me. There's no question of "oh, should I bring my laptop? It's a pain to carry it around", I just pop it in my backpack and go. It comes to class, the library, around my dorm, to the student union, etc. My whole college campus is wireless, so it's super easy to grab 'n go.

Ooh man, now I'm excited for a speedy, intel 12", with a metal case and dedicated graphics. *drool*
 
Originally Posted by lmalave View Post
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I disagree with you about 12" being too narrow, though. I used to have a 12" MacBook and it never seemed too narrow for me. And that was at 1024x768 resolution. I expect the 12" MBP will be fairly pixel-dense at 1280x800.


I think you mean you used to have a 12" Powerbook. I might be wrong, but I thought it was 4:3?
I'm not sure if narrow is the right word for it, but what I mean is the height of the screen. 12" in 4:3 is just fine, but in wide screen format it might get quite low. 13" is still usable, although you need to scroll up and down quite a bit already. I know the difference is not actually that much, but I hope the screen size will be usable.

That took longer than I thought for someone to pick up on. With all the sharks on these forums, I had my money on two post max.
 
Docking stations are the most annoying pieces of poop ever. They never seem to work right and they look like ass.

As for a 15" ultraportable....ugggggggggggggggg. I would start drooling instantly at the announcement.

With the slight modification from 12'' to 15'' i couldn't agree more with this post.
 
er... may I disagree?

Why would Apple want to encourage the purchase of physical DVDs when you will soon (knock on wood) be able to d/l a plethora of movie content on the iTS? A movie player, maybe... but it'd probably be a video iPod.

-Clive

Because iTMS exists solely to support their hardware purchases. And the number of support calls from the mummies who bought this computer about "how to import CDs into iTunes" will be not worth it.

You seem to be of the opinion that pushing your own belief that optical drives are NOT required will actually influence in some way Apple's ultimate hardware design. Well I got news for you, Apple does not care about your opinion, that's for sure. So yes, you choose to disagree, that is your choice. Don't push your opinion any further that it is meant to go. Thank you.
 
6 - Strong cases, but hopefully not as bad-looking as those from Dell or pretty much any Windows notebook out there...Apple is still unsurpassed in design of notebooks. And yep, a thin notebook is much more important than most features above noted...it's not easy to overlook that when you carry your stuff around in a bag or suitcase...

I beg to differ on this one. SIZE is more critical than thickness. Try traveling through a crowd with a 1" thick laptop that is in a bag the size of an A3 sheet of paper for one.
 
1 - Sorry, but no. The PowerBook Duo is dead long ago, and not really missed by many...the idea of a docking station presumes leaving features for a desktop, and that is not the idea of a pro notebook. You need power AND mobility, and not to waive on features for the sake of a purported "cleanliness". A pro notebook has it all, and doesn't any other cables apart from, perhaps, a mouse.

I have to disagree vehemently, and this is one of my biggest complaints about Apple's notebooks.

I have been using my MacBook Pro at home and at work as my main machine for about 6 months. When I get to work, I plug in the power, the mouse, and the ethernet. When I go home, I unplug it. Every frigging day. There are also a pair of external hard drives and a monitor that I'd LIKE to attach, but they stay on my Dell -- which has a docking station.

A new colleague in my group just started and he also has a Macbook Pro that he insists on attaching to an external flat panel, so he's in just as bad shape as I am. It's clutterred, unprofessional, and inconvenient to attach/detach, not to mention the wear and tear on the connectors. Apple is remiss to leave out a docking architecture.

2 - Yes, but only for those notebooks that have dismal battery life, like most Dells. Instead, an optical drive must STILL be standard, as most internal HDs more than cover the needs of people.

And once again I have to disagree. I have had two Thinpad X series ultraportables, which feature a MODULAR bay architecture that lets me have whatever I want -- an optical drive, a 2nd hard drive, or a 2nd battery. When I go full battery (8 cell internal + 2nd battery) I am good for 8-10 hours of use on a single charge -- all day computing. Match that!

5 - Notebooks are not meant for CPU upgrades, although this might be useful for hobbyists.

Remember that the next time you shell out $3k on a laptop that lasts for 18 months before it's obsoletel.
 
Well, if Apple were to base itself on HP, Lenovo or Dell's "coolness" factor, it would be bankrupt by now...most people don't use docks, and never did, especially in companies.

Due to their normal lack of features (or excess thereof), Windows notebooks might draw some little usefulness from docking stations...Macs don't need them.

You must never move your Mac and actually use it in more than one place. I also want to know what companies you are visiting that don't use docks. Your opinions run completely 100% to the opposite of my experiences in 15 years of working. I work for a large semiconductor manufacturer and every single notebook given to every single employee has a docking station. Everywhere I have been, this is the case. Even in the startups I've worked at, road warrior executives insist on having a docking station. That might be one reason none of them used Macs.
 
Surely, it's always easier to number them anyway...although you, as usual, haven't replied to any...docking station? Plllllllllease...

I agree that a docking station would not be so handy for the 15"/17" MBP's, but for a 12" it would be perfect.

A 12" will be perfect as a little lightweight laptop for on the road, but once you get to the office, it would be handy to plug it in and get a nice big display for doing all the stuff that's too hard to do on the road. Like editing photo's (precision mouse work!), working on big spreadsheets, etc.

With a big display you will need a separate keyboard and mouse, so you'll have the following to plug in (numbered then as you seem to prefer this :) )

1. Power
2. Display cable
3. Keyboard
4. Mouse
5. Network (ok optional, but most companies prefer to limit wireless use to meeting rooms due to security and bandwidth concerns).

That is still an awful hassle. I'm glad I have the docking station for the Thinkpad T42 from work, because I also have an external USB headset for my softphone, and speakers connected. Now I can just plonk it in the docking station. It even has an on/off button so I can keep the screen closed while using it and can still turn it on. For my mac I would also want an external drive connected while in the office once leopard comes out, so I can use the excellent time machine feature.

I think a docking station for a 12" would be great in the pro market. It would be just too small to be used in an office.

I did agree with your other points by the way.

Edit: Oops, there have been others pointing this out as well, I should have read on before posting :)
 
I have been using my MacBook Pro at home and at work as my main machine for about 6 months. When I get to work, I plug in the power, the mouse, and the ethernet. When I go home, I unplug it. Every frigging day. There are also a pair of external hard drives and a monitor that I'd LIKE to attach, but they stay on my Dell -- which has a docking station.

Well, that's your opinion (as is Aiden's); the parts you have to plug are pretty much basic parts that everyone else plugs...power and internet, and mouse for those that prefer it...it's not much, if you compare to the ugly and undesirable footprint of an extra docking station...no, thanks...and don't forget...slow sales were among the main factors behind the phasing-out of the Duos, notwithstanding their GREAT implementation, as is usual for Apple.

And once again I have to disagree. I have had two Thinpad X series ultraportables, which feature a MODULAR bay architecture that lets me have whatever I want -- an optical drive, a 2nd hard drive, or a 2nd battery. When I go full battery (8 cell internal + 2nd battery) I am good for 8-10 hours of use on a single charge -- all day computing. Match that!

I still don't see the use for that, because the main thing here is the optical drive. Portables are NOT meant to have 2 HDs (not even desktops have that, normally)...and if you really need that extra space, just plug some flash drive...case closed.

Extra batteries follow the same principle...if you have one that works well, no need for another swappable part in your bag. I need full functionality, not replaceable volumes in my jacket.

Remember that the next time you shell out $3k on a laptop that lasts for 18 months before it's obsoletel.

Sorry, but that's progress. You should base your purchase on your CURRENT and FUTURE needs, in accordance with your plans TODAY. Obsolescence does not exist on the grounds of the latest and greatest, but on your own use of a computer. I've paid CHF 2500 for my damn awesome iMac G5 2.0, and it lets me do ANYTHING I want as a moderate/normal user...it's been here for 2 years, its processor cannot be swapped and I am happy...as are 99% of Apple customers out there...you guys must see beyond the "MR community needs" and check whether there is a REAL mass demand for that...I don't think so.

You must never move your Mac and actually use it in more than one place. I also want to know what companies you are visiting that don't use docks. Your opinions run completely 100% to the opposite of my experiences in 15 years of working. I work for a large semiconductor manufacturer and every single notebook given to every single employee has a docking station. Everywhere I have been, this is the case. Even in the startups I've worked at, road warrior executives insist on having a docking station. That might be one reason none of them used Macs.

Let me just say that every company/org. for which I have worked so far had NO docks whatsoever...perhaps this is different for "techie" companies; but as a lawyer who has worked for an investment bank, a power company, a telecom company, a NGO and an international organization, I've never seen any mass-usage of docks.

So in your world people are all self employed in little illegal unregistered businesses? Because otherwise they would constitute a "company". I certainly can see the utility of a dock, nevermind Apple's idea of kool.

I didn't really understand your statement, but anyway...as Mr. Shaw said above, I also must be on the "right track"...after all, I've got more than 3 replies defending ugly and bulky docks in this forum...perhaps we should roll back the Duos...they had a neat mechanism, at least...:rolleyes:
 
Yes please

Let this dream become reality! I sold my 12" PB 4 months ago because the screen had become quite dark and yellow after 3 years of heavy use. The MacBook I bought then isn't bad really, but it's simply not the perfect portable. I carried my PB everywhere, I don't do the same with the MacBook. I mean it's got the same size like my girl friend's 15" PB.
Please, it want my 12" back - with intel inside!
 
Why are some of the Mac FanBois so afraid to "think different" ?

This discussion has a number of the short-sighted "I don't want it, therefore Apple shouldn't offer it" arguments.

What's wrong with offering a docking station - you don't have to buy it if you don't want it! What's wrong with the ability to carry a spare battery - you don't have to!

...if you compare to the ugly and undesirable footprint of an extra docking station...no, thanks...:
Where's the spirit of innovation here? What if Apple's docking station were a Mini-mac-sized (or even smaller) port replicator that connected to the laptop with a fibre? Or even used the GbE port (auto-sensing whether a network or the dock was connected)? Or a small lump that mounted on the ACD?

Surely the Archangel Ives could think outside the dock! :rolleyes:


...Portables are NOT meant to have 2 HDs...
This is nonsense - how many pros are forced to carry an external USB or 1394 drive?

...Extra batteries follow the same principle...if you have one that works well, no need for another swappable part in your bag.:
If the main battery is 6 hour, there will be times when you need 8. If it's 12 hour, there will be times when you need 16.

With a bay battery, you can swap without pausing or sleeping....

...You should base your purchase on your CURRENT and FUTURE needs, in accordance with your plans TODAY.:
That's exactly what I did when I purchased a Yonah machine last winter. And this fall, I turned it into a Merom running a 64-bit OS.

It met my CURRENT needs then, and my FUTURE needs.
________________

These arguments are basically saying "if Apple doesn't offer it, it's bad and you shouldn't want it".

Sometimes the fanbois are the most entrenched neo-Luddites around.
 
What's wrong with offering a docking station - you don't have to buy it if you don't want it! What's wrong with the ability to carry a spare battery - you don't have to!
I haven't read much of the thread recently, but I just came across this http://www.belkin.com/highspeeddock/ in a Xmas Dell catalog, and it seems like a good fit for a "dockable" Mac IMHO, as longs as it has ExpressCard. Too bad Belkin doesn't provide Mac drivers for it...

B
 
Anyway do the ULVs come at the same speed as the current C2D chips we see in the MBP?

No they don't. The ULV is up to something like 1.2GHz. The L7400 a low, rather than ultra-low, voltage chip will be released in January. That's 1.5GHz. It sports a full 4MB cache though.

I think any super small apple notebook is likely to be equipped with a low voltage chip. This is why I picked up my macbook and stopped waiting.

I think this rumour is unlikely to happen btw. I think Apple will wait for the 1.6GHz chips and santa rosa with robson (all due end of H1 2007) before getting this kind of machine out. We'll see.
 
I still don't see the use for that, because the main thing here is the optical drive. Portables are NOT meant to have 2 HDs (not even desktops have that, normally)...and if you really need that extra space, just plug some flash drive...case closed.

I use it not just for extra storage, but I use it as a swappable drive bay, so I can run XP, Vista, and Fedora Core 6 on a single notebook. I could do OSX86 if I feel so inclined, to create the first sub-3 pound Macbook ;)

Extra batteries follow the same principle...if you have one that works well, no need for another swappable part in your bag. I need full functionality, not replaceable volumes in my jacket.

Are you saying there is such a thing as too much battery? No such thing. The vast majority of the time I'm on two battery config, no extra parts in my jacket as I don't normally need to install CDs or boot my secondary operating systems.

Of the three UltraBay devices I have (2nd battery, 2nd hard drive, optical drive) I use the optical drive the least. Thank you IBM for giving me the choice.
 
this may have been said already, but could they use a large 18" drive? or are the speedss not high enough? and mybe a large flash drive as an isolated boot disk. and i'd love a docking station if it looked good, and of course it would if they do include it. maybe a height adustable one, with a sort of icurve built in.
 
This discussion has a number of the short-sighted "I don't want it, therefore Apple shouldn't offer it" arguments.

What's wrong with offering a docking station - you don't have to buy it if you don't want it! What's wrong with the ability to carry a spare battery - you don't have to!

If the main battery is 6 hour, there will be times when you need 8. If it's 12 hour, there will be times when you need 16.

That's exactly what I did when I purchased a Yonah machine last winter. And this fall, I turned it into a Merom running a 64-bit OS.

These arguments are basically saying "if Apple doesn't offer it, it's bad and you shouldn't want it".

Sometimes the fanbois are the most entrenched neo-Luddites around.

Well, Mr. Shaw, thanks as usual for your compliments...I am a "fanboi" indeed (although I still don't understand why the Internet community likes so much to destroy normal language...fanboi = fanboy / pwned = owned)...:rolleyes:

The problem with most ideas written here is that people think Apple is a monstrous factory of all gadgets...it's not, and it shouldn't be...Apple has much bigger fish to fry, instead of amusing us at MR with all our crazy wishes.

1 - If 3rd party companies can offer a dock, go ahead and buy it. Most don't need a docking station, and never will...and Apple sells to such public as it deems fit, not to a handful of hardcore customers.

2 - Your argument on batteries just proves my point...people are never satisfied, be it battery life or HD size...that's why a second battery is a fallacy, even if you get 1 extra hour of life for your notebook.

3 - My point on swapping chips is that, as exhaustively said before, there will ALWAYS be something better and faster around the corner. Does this make your machine obsolete? Surely not...because sensible people plan their purchases on their present and, as much as possible, future needs...I am not talking about future-proof, I am talking about personal and future personal needs.

And please, let's be honest...do you really think Apple is one of those companies fostering chip-swapping in notebooks? This is a matter for soldering iron fanatics, not normal users...and the difference between Yonah and Merom is a big YAWN in real terms for normal people, if I may say...:rolleyes:

It's not that Apple doesn't do it...it's more like "Apple cannot do everything you want"...otherwise it would be bankrupt, just as in the late 90s, with a thousand models and projects at the same time.
 
this would be absoluetely amazing, except the 1700 price tag, 12 inch should be a macbook price range

Ummm...why?????? Most customers are willing to pay a PREMIUM for smallness. Go to a Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. Observe how in general 15.4" laptops are selling for around $1000 whereas 12" or smaller laptops are selling for around $2000.

I actually expect the 12" MBP to sell for $1800. That would actually put it at about $400-$500 *less* than its competition from Sony, etc.
 
1 - ... Most don't need a docking station, and never will...
So, if Apple came out with a gadget:
  • About the width of a MiniMac, but 1/3 the height and 1/3 the depth
  • that had a magsafe plug to connect to the laptop
  • that said magsafe plug had a pair of small optical fibres or a pair of 3 Gbps serial connections
  • next, that said magsafe receptacle became a standard feature in the next rev of every laptop
  • furthermore, that said optical or serial connections carried the DVI signals, USB, network, 1394, audio, etc to the dock
  • and finally, your honor, that said dock could be attached to the back of the ACD, completely out of sight

what would your response be?

Would you still want to connect and disconnect half a dozen cables or so whenever you moved the laptop?

ps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boi_(gender)
 
sockets have other advantages

And please, let's be honest...do you really think Apple is one of those companies fostering chip-swapping in notebooks? This is a matter for soldering iron fanatics, not normal users...
In addition to upgrades, socketed CPUs reduce the number of motherboards that repair centers need to stock.

When I've had to have a motherboard replace on most laptops, the tech comes out with a standard motherboard, and transfers the CPU to the new mobo.

Knocking several hundred dollars off the price of a mobo replacement isn't a bad thing.

...and the difference between Yonah and Merom is a big YAWN in real terms for normal people, if I may say...:rolleyes:
Unless you want to run 64-bit software - then the Merom is much, much faster.

We should reopen this talk after 10.5 comes out with good 64-bit support, and all those Yonahs aren't invited to the party.
 
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