Ultrabooks are Macbook Air clones

[MonkeySee....]

Well having seen prior Sony laptops, I'd say the MBA is their style of design, so it's a yes either way really. The MBA looks great, but there's no denying that it's core design elements can be found in old Sony laptops.

I'm not denying that and its never been the point i'm making. My point is that there is many ways you make a laptop look and it seems that companies are making their "ultra books" look like a MBA.

 

[roadbloc]

I'm not denying that and its never been the point i'm making. My point is that there is many ways you make a laptop look and it seems that companies are making their "ultra books" look like a MBA.

The unfortunate thing is, that is opinion based. I agree that the Zenbook is very MBA. The rest however, look nothing like.

 

[KnightWRX]

Does it look like their other style/design of laptops or does it look a MBA?

It looks like a Sony Laptop, which is what the MBA looks like. 🙄

All the cues in the MBA come from Sony basically. Sony can't "clone" what they came up with, it's the other way around.

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I'm not denying that and its never been the point i'm making. My point is that there is many ways you make a laptop look and it seems that companies are making their "ultra books" look like a MBA.

So what, the MBA is took its cues from Sony... Are you denying that ? (Yes you are, you fail to acknowledge the many features of the X505 from 2004, just because it happened to use a 4:3 screen which at the time was what was found on laptops!)

I dunno why I'm even bothering with you anymore, seems to me you just don't want to see the reality of it all, which is the MBA was not invented in a vaccuum. It borrowed heavily from other sources. Now other sources are borrowing from Apple.

That's how the industry works. Anyway, you can't accuse Sony of anything since they are the originator. Just because Apple decided to use features they did doesn't mean Sony now becomes a clone maker, it just doesn't work that way.

 

[MonkeySee....]

It looks like a Sony Laptop, which is what the MBA looks like. 🙄

All the cues in the MBA come from Sony basically. Sony can't "clone" what they came up with, it's the other way around.

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So what, the MBA is took its cues from Sony... Are you denying that ? (Yes you are, you fail to acknowledge the many features of the X505 from 2004, just because it happened to use a 4:3 screen which at the time was what was found on laptops!)

I dunno why I'm even bothering with you anymore, seems to me you just don't want to see the reality of it all, which is the MBA was not invented in a vaccuum. It borrowed heavily from other sources. Now other sources are borrowing from Apple.

That's how the industry works. Anyway, you can't accuse Sony of anything since they are the originator. Just because Apple decided to use features they did doesn't mean Sony now becomes a clone maker, it just doesn't work that way.

*facepalm*

 

[KnightWRX]

*facepalm*

Facepalm what ? What part of what I said isn't true and what part are you not getting ? What's your goal here anyway ? You keep not responding to posts, only coming back to say everyone is lifting the MBA's looks when we've proven time and again that they are not the MBA's to begin with.

Look, if you really don't want to have a discussion in good faith (not the bad faith you've exhibited here up until now), I will simply move you to ignore. Save us all some grief and tell us what it's going to be.

 

[MonkeySee....]

Facepalm what ? What part of what I said isn't true and what part are you not getting ? What's your goal here anyway ? You keep not responding to posts, only coming back to say everyone is lifting the MBA's looks when we've proven time and again that they are not the MBA's to begin with.

Look, if you really don't want to have a discussion in good faith (not the bad faith you've exhibited here up until now), I will simply move you to ignore. Save us all some grief and tell us what it's going to be.

I have responded to many posts.

You don't get my point.

Lets move on.

 

[MorphingDragon]

I have responded to many posts.

You don't get my point.

Lets move on.

Laptops are only a form factor, their shape and design can be varied wildly.

 

[KnightWRX]

I have responded to many posts.

You don't get my point.

Do you have one ? No, frankly, I don't get your point if you tell me your point isn't harping on and on about how everyone copies Apple.

All the posts you've responded to up to now give me that impression (dismissing any evidence that Apple borrowed elsewhere, and then saying everyone else borrowed from Apple).

 

[GKDAIR]

I honestly don't know how apple isn't suing some companies for blatantly ripping off of the macbook air. I walked into best buy the other day, still debating on getting a windows machine or iMac, decided on an iMac. But I was looking at the ultra books.

Wow, companies are truly pathetic. The machines I looked like were PAINFULLY ripping off of a macbook air. But after holding them and even testing them out they werent nearly as good as the airs. They even felt flimsy, like they were held together with gum. Macbook airs feel solid to me, after owning one for 4 months.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I honestly don't know how apple isn't suing some companies for blatantly ripping off of the macbook air. I walked into best buy the other day, still debating on getting a windows machine or iMac, decided on an iMac. But I was looking at the ultra books.

Wow, companies are truly pathetic. The machines I looked like were PAINFULLY ripping off of a macbook air. But after holding them and even testing them out they werent nearly as good as the airs. They even felt flimsy, like they were held together with gum. Macbook airs feel solid to me, after owning one for 4 months.

Because apple would not have a case. They would be very badly embarrassed as the air is a pretty big rip off of an older sony laptop. There is a lot of prior art and point to a lot of stealing by Apple.

 

[kockgunner]

The Dell XPS 13 takes the cake.

There have been many thin and light laptops before, but you can't seriously think the Sony X505 and the Macbook Air has more similarities than the new ultrabooks and the Macbook Air.

This Dell for example has the same corner radius for the chassis, same port placement, has a battery level indicator button like Macbook Pros, same wedge angle, black edge to edge glass screen with metal surrounding rim, dropped hinge design with black plastic strip. I'm not claiming Apple has exclusive rights to these design elements, but just using all of them in a way that overall is so similar to Apple's design is shameful as a 'designer'.

Many people say Sony invented the chicklet keyboard and Apple is copying it. Well chicklet keyboards were around for in the 70s on computers and on calculators for the longest time, yet no one says anything when people suddenly use Apple's hinge design, black edge to edge glass with metal surround, buttonless glass trackpads, backlit keyboards, and round flat rubber feet.

People take these elements for granted, but before, laptop hinges were floppy things that rested on the base of the laptop making the screen relatively high and ports would be inaccesible on the back. Screens would have thick bezels and latches, trackpads would be small and high friction, keyboards wouldn't be backlit. I'm glad PC OEMs are finally making attractive designs, but writing off Apple completely and being completely blind to unoriginal designs doesn't promote competition.

Even when Apple uses the chicklet keyboard design you claim Sony invented, their laptops manage to look completely different from Sony's. If people want to play the game, then all laptops are 'rip offs' from the Powerbook 100 which first used the palmrest under the keyboard notebook design.

 

[Eidorian]

Even when Apple uses the chicklet keyboard design you claim Sony invented, their laptops manage to look completely different from Sony's. If people want to play the game, then all laptops are 'rip offs' from the Powerbook 100 which first used the palmrest under the keyboard notebook design.

You would be very surprised to see who helped design that PowerBook 100. 😀

 

[OllyW]

You would be very surprised to see who helped design that PowerBook 100. 😀

And made it. 🙂

 

[juliusaugustus]

I don't get why this is a big deal I mean their are many companies who copy each other have you seen the timelinex laptops from Acer while they are nice looking computers they are shameless Sony Vaio Knockoffs everything from the barrel hinge, to colored the aluminum/magesium frame and shell, and the chiclet keyboard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhR1vS8L9C4
or the Samsung series 4 which is a shameless Thinkpad x220 knockoff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbZG4F_kvA8

 

[MonkeySee....]

The Dell XPS 13 takes the cake.

There have been many thin and light laptops before, but you can't seriously think the Sony X505 and the Macbook Air has more similarities than the new ultrabooks and the Macbook Air.

This Dell for example has the same corner radius for the chassis, same port placement, has a battery level indicator button like Macbook Pros, same wedge angle, black edge to edge glass screen with metal surrounding rim, dropped hinge design with black plastic strip. I'm not claiming Apple has exclusive rights to these design elements, but just using all of them in a way that overall is so similar to Apple's design is shameful as a 'designer'.

Many people say Sony invented the chicklet keyboard and Apple is copying it. Well chicklet keyboards were around for in the 70s on computers and on calculators for the longest time, yet no one says anything when people suddenly use Apple's hinge design, black edge to edge glass with metal surround, buttonless glass trackpads, backlit keyboards, and round flat rubber feet.

People take these elements for granted, but before, laptop hinges were floppy things that rested on the base of the laptop making the screen relatively high and ports would be inaccesible on the back. Screens would have thick bezels and latches, trackpads would be small and high friction, keyboards wouldn't be backlit. I'm glad PC OEMs are finally making attractive designs, but writing off Apple completely and being completely blind to unoriginal designs doesn't promote competition.

Even when Apple uses the chicklet keyboard design you claim Sony invented, their laptops manage to look completely different from Sony's. If people want to play the game, then all laptops are 'rip offs' from the Powerbook 100 which first used the palmrest under the keyboard notebook design.

Your wasting you breath here. Even though i'm glad someone sees the point being made in this thread. 🙂

 

[vvswarup]

Dell doesn't sell pc's anymore?

I take that back. Dell still makes PCs but the PC business is no cash cow to Dell. Dell's operating margin on PCs is 1%. Dell makes pennies on the dollar from PCs. But that's the price Dell and other PC OEMs have paid to play in the Windows PC market.

 

[AppleScruff1]

I take that back. Dell still makes PCs but the PC business is no cash cow to Dell. Dell's operating margin on PCs is 1%. Dell makes pennies on the dollar from PCs. But that's the price Dell and other PC OEMs have paid to play in the Windows PC market.

I know that Dell makes peanuts on their pc business as most manufacturers do. The fierce competition has eroded the bottom line to nothing. I'd like to see the Windows based manufacturers start making some better quality machines. A few of the Ultrabooks seem to be on the right track. They need metal construction with better quality displays and better trackpads.

 

[Hellhammer]

They need metal construction with better quality displays and better trackpads.

The problem is consumers unwillingness to pay more for higher quality displays, or even overall construction. Higher quality costs more, always. The average consumer goes to Walmart or Best Buy and buys the cheapest laptop for their needs. You aren't going to look for things like display, as that's not mentioned in the specifications (the resolution may be, but that's not enough). If you have two laptops side by side, one with higher quality display costing $100 more, the consumer is most likely going to buy the cheaper one.

Of course, when we enter the premium PC market (+$1000) where Apple is, then people start to think their purchase a bit more. They use forums and other sources to figure out what's the best laptop for their needs. When you buy a laptop because you just need something for checking email and Facebook, you aren't going to spend a lot time on searching for the best deals and so on.

When you buy small quantities of higher quality displays, the price will be more. It seems that OEMs aren't ready to take the risk of buying a million higher quality LCDs to get the price down, because they would still be more expensive than a million low quality ones. You either end up selling them for very low profit or even at loss if the consumers simply won't buy it.

 

[malman89]

They need metal construction with better quality displays and better trackpads.

I guess you haven't actually looked at almost any of the Ultrabooks. Many are aluminum just like MBPs and MBAs. Most have displays as good as the MBA and quite a few have better screens.

I really don't find the trackpad argument being a major one. I don't have a fancy trackpad on my MacBook and I don't feel like I'm missing anything compared to when I use my work's recent 17" MBP with the glass trackpad. As long as trackpads can handle your average use well, there's little difference past that.

 

[JazzyFizzle]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Ultrabooks just thin laptops? Apple can't copyright a certain thickness...

Yes the designs are similar, but what else can they do? Make the screen round? There's only so much you can do to the design before it starts looking ridiculous. Apple just realised what worked before Dell, Intel, etc.

I agree that they probably have copied to a large extent but you'll never get the same quality from anyone other than Apple anyway and they'll always hold that rank in the market.

What annoys me the most is how Apple's trackpad is becoming standard among these 'ripoffs'. Before

 

[KnightWRX]

What annoys me the most is how Apple's trackpad is becoming standard among these 'ripoffs'.

Does it annoy you that Apple adopted Sony's chiclet keyboard also ? Or are you ok with Apple taking ideas from others, as long as it's only a one-way street ?

A serious question.

 

[MonkeySee....]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Ultrabooks just thin laptops? Apple can't copyright a certain thickness...

Yes the designs are similar, but what else can they do? Make the screen round? There's only so much you can do to the design before it starts looking ridiculous. Apple just realised what worked before Dell, Intel, etc.

I agree that they probably have copied to a large extent but you'll never get the same quality from anyone other than Apple anyway and they'll always hold that rank in the market.

What annoys me the most is how Apple's trackpad is becoming standard among these 'ripoffs'. Before Image

There are a few ways to MAKE a thin laptop but there are many ways to DESIGN a thin laptop.

Seriously....

 

[JazzyFizzle]

Does it annoy you that Apple adopted Sony's chiclet keyboard also ? Or are you ok with Apple taking ideas from others, as long as it's only a one-way street ?

A serious question.

I think it's OK for anyone to copy as long as it's not blatant ripping off. I think copying - or rather taking inspiration from others - actually helps. Without it we wouldn't have competition to progress.

Maybe I was being a bit naive with the trackpad comparison. Perhaps it will force Apple to create something better. Again. 😉

There are a few ways to MAKE a thin laptop but there are many ways to DESIGN a thin laptop.

Seriously....

I don't think you really understood what I tried to say, or maybe I didn't quite put it right. There aren't many ways to DESIGN a simplistic & incredibly thin laptop without it looking like the Air. The Air has a very generic design which is hard not to copy if you just want simple.

 

[Hellhammer]

There are a few ways to MAKE a thin laptop but there are many ways to DESIGN a thin laptop.

Seriously....

Well, if it's that easy, why not provide us with a design that is better and totally different than Apple's?

You are limited to similar panels as Apple, you can't suddenly come up with a 4:3 laptop. That gives your machine its dimensions. Since Ultrabooks need to be thin, they are thin, just like MBA. What's left? You can use a different material, that's true. Then again, Apple doesn't have a patent on aluminum so if it's the best material, why go with an inferior one? If a big button-less trackpad is the best, why shouldn't PC OEMs use it? It's not like Apple owns a patent on it.

And there's pretty much your laptop, unless you want to do something stupid. Please, please enlighten us on how to design an Ultrabook that wouldn't look like MBA in your opinion. Because now it sounds like every ultra-thin laptop is a rip off of MBA, even if they looked different.

 

[MonkeySee....]

I think it's OK for anyone to copy as long as it's not blatant ripping off. I think copying - or rather taking inspiration from others - actually helps. Without it we wouldn't have competition to progress.

Maybe I was being a bit naive with the trackpad comparison. Perhaps it will force Apple to create something better. Again. 😉



I don't think you really understood what I tried to say, or maybe I didn't quite put it right. There aren't many ways to DESIGN a simplistic & incredibly thin laptop without it looking like the Air. The Air has a very generic design which is hard not to copy if you just want simple.

Ahh no my point still stands.

Imagine a Thin laptop Mould. No ports on it nothing. Just shell.

Now each company has a task to design the laptop to make it unique. If each company was in a dark room do you think they would all come out with the same design, same port locations etc?? I doubt it.

Whats happening at the moment is that the MBA is the mould and companies seem to stick a logo on it and making it out of plastic.

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Well, if it's that easy, why not provide us with a design that is better and totally different than Apple's?

You are limited to similar panels as Apple, you can't suddenly come up with a 4:3 laptop. That gives your machine its dimensions. Since Ultrabooks need to be thin, they are thin, just like MBA. What's left? You can use a different material, that's true. Then again, Apple doesn't have a patent on aluminum so if it's the best material, why go with an inferior one? If a big button-less trackpad is the best, why shouldn't PC OEMs use it? It's not like Apple owns a patent on it.

And there's pretty much your laptop, unless you want to do something stupid. Please, please enlighten us on how to design an Ultrabook that wouldn't look like MBA in your opinion. Because now it sounds like every ultra-thin laptop is a rip off of MBA, even if they looked different.

I'm not a designer, Sorry.