Unauthorized iPhone 8, 8 Plus and X Display Replacements Can Break Ambient Light Sensor

[techwhiz]

Agreed. But instead of disabling features, Apple could simply show a pop-up (or show a persistent message in the settings) that says that the experience may have been compromised. It is then left to the customers' choice. At the moment, all it looks like is Apple is forging new territory in their existing monopolistic market. There is a line...it is my phone after all. I will get it repaired wherever I want and will bear the consequences of a 'compromised' experience.

Also, don't forget what's mentioned in the original article. Even if you swap the displays of two iPhones, the software deems the device compromised. This is not about an aftermarket spare part.

Of course...this might just be an iOS bug. We will never know unless Apple talks about it.

Agreed. Just like they check to see if the display is changed and disable the ambient light sensor, they can put a notification on the lock screen at every boot of the phone that there is an issue.

The can control the experience and let the customer know that if you have issues, it might be your repair.

 

[JediZenMaster]

"HQ" aka back room of your local apple store on a iMac with training material to read. Who knew turning a screw driver was an elegant repair. Does that mean if the cavemen turn the same screws they are now elegant or "Geniuses". I hope one day a person can sit you down and show you how easy it is to fix these devices minus the software locks Apple puts on their stuff to prevent it. Whats elegant is being able to replace parts that are broken and see it work again with your own hands.
[doublepost=1523556380][/doublepost]Those here in opposition are not fighting against or bad mouthing those who buy Apples products. I think apple makes good products its the willingness to throw your rights to fix your stuff out the window, along with thousands of small businesses all over the US. By telling Apple we are ok with you being our only source for repair you create a monopoly where they can do as they please. Is there a limit to what people will put up with? Sure but at the same time you as a customer limit your options to save money and time to have the same repairs done.
If you feel turning 8 screws to swap a screen is far too complicated then I suggest you sit down and actually see how easy it is.
This is more a fight against a company actively moving towards removing consumer rights. I hope that you as a buyer would want free reign to do as you please with your device after you buy it. If you want to only go to Apple because you feel its a superior repair then by all means do so, but to tell others they cant choose how they want to fix their device knowing the possibilities is ridiculous.

HQ actually Cupertino and that’s a fact that all Geniuses are trained there.

 

[prasand]

HQ actually Cupertino and that’s a fact that all Geniuses are trained there.

Interesting, I did not know that. But it makes sense, as not every Apple Store employee can be a Genius, so that's a significantly less number of people that would need to be trained at HQ.

 

[H2SO4]

Sounds good to me!

If your BMW/Audi/VW has an ECU or cluster fault, officially only those manufactures can repair this. Granted, 3rd party companies managed to hack/crack older cars and provide tools to achieve this

In most VW/Audis if you swap the cluster, it will have whats called component protection. The car won't start or certain bits just simply won't work until it is coded/calibrated to the car using an online connection to HQ in Germany. Authorised repairers have this functionally too.

Doesn't look no different to the iPhone repairs case to me. And one that Im willing to accept.

I will for my car as it could kill me, (or you), if my brake by wire or even throttle by wire malfunctions. My phone, I'm less caring about.

 

[LovingTeddy]

You’re an Android user, in an iPhone thread insisting that we need to complain about Apple’s practices? No thanks.




Yes it makes sense, then that means that the screen needs to be calibrated, to work with the ALS input, instead of the ALS being calibrated itself.



Two main points have eluded you:

1. Other phones have inferior security. So what’s good enough for them is irrelevant.

2. There is a difference between owning a device and having say over it, versus being in physical possession of it and having say over it. TouchID can’t / shouldn’t be swappable because it’s impossible for the device to determine if an owner is repairing it, or a thief is hacking it.

What you’re really insisting for, is the right to repair my device, not just your own. No thank you.

I’ve learned my lessons, from third party repair messing up our iPhones, where I’ll never do it again. Only Apple, or authorized third party, ever again.

I have iPads. I have fixed my cracked iPad 4 screen on third party repairs. You know how much I spend on fixing that iPad? 150RMB equivalents of 40 Canadian dollars. You know how much Apple want charge me for fix cracked iPad 4 screen? Over 300 Canadian dollars. I own iPads therefore I have legit concern over Apple’s attitude towards third party repairs.

I don’t care if there is malicious code or whatever on TouchID or whatever with their party repairs. I went to fix it with third party retailer, I take full responsibility on whatever happens. Apple has no right to disable my phone with software updates.

 

[Wanted797]

What does that have to do with this?

If you break your car you pay for repairs to said car. Cheap repairers break things or aren’t as good.

We all accept it’s not the manufacturers problem when it comes to cars.

 

[LovingTeddy]

I doubt that as Apple Geniuses are trained at HQ. You can let the cavemen Touch your devices however no one outside of Apple will touch my elegant products!

The cave men fixed my iPad 4 beautifully. Significant cheaper than these so called Genius.

 

[Cezanne77]

Each replacement display is individually calibrated for the specific device in order to properly adjust color based on the environment. This practice guarantees true colors no matter what the lighting is like. If you’ve ever worked in print media you know how important a calibrated display is.

There is a lot more going on in the calibration process than color matching. The calibration process also includes testing and verification of every sensor on the display including the functionality of the multitouch and 3D Touch features to ensure it meets Apple standards. It reprograms the secure element with the new Touch ID sensor, it verifies that the flex cabling is properly seated and the display is seated correctly after being sealed. It also makes sure the right display has been used in the repair, ie no white for black swaps. Obviously there is also some verification process that matches the sensor circuitry with the iPhone logic board to ensure functionality.
[doublepost=1523572768][/doublepost]

And what about the countries where applecare doesn't exist for the iPhone? You have to bring it to the store for warranty and usually wait about 2 weeks to get a fixed device...

serious question, what country does Apple do business in that has an official retail location, but doesn’t offer AppleCare support?
[doublepost=1523574099][/doublepost]

This problem affects OEM displays.

What kind of lengthy calibration is required for an ambient light sensor?

I agree the repair requires specialized tools that unauthorized repair shops cannot get. That's exactly the problem. This is not about replacing a logic board or something with a security function. The ambient light sensor doesn't work because it requires a specialized tool?

This type of activity to encourage service spending at authorized repair shops has been tried and true for oil changes on some cars. It has not been well received.

See my on page 5 of this thread for an explanation of what the calibration process does, but in a nutshell calibration is a pairing process that binds that particular display to that specific phone. Removing that display and placing it on another iPhone would cripple some features of that display. Also I’m highly skeptical that an unauthorized vendor could easily get their hands on genuine OEM Apple parts for iOS devices, and even if they could, get them at a price that would be profitable to then sell in an attempt to undercut Apple or even be competitive to Apple or other third-parties. If they are genuine then they were obtained in an unauthorized possibly illegal manner. It is possible these displays are ones that Apple rejects for various reasons after manufacturing or they just are not as genuine as they think they are. I can tell you this, all displays are serialized and tracked. There would be no way to guarantee the quality or condition of these parts. So who knows why they don’t work right other than they haven’t completed the repair to Apple standards and that includes being calibrated in some very expensive proprietary equipment an unauthorized vendor couldn’t obtain.
[doublepost=1523574902][/doublepost]

cavemen? You do know an Apple "Genius" could easily be working at your local McDonalds. Just because they give you scripted lines and turns screws in a back room where you cant see doesnt mean they are highly skilled technicians. What an ignorant way to view repair and small business.
[doublepost=1523554262][/doublepost]

Thats not how those systems work at all. You should really learn about these systems. The home button being replaced in no way is a security risk. The scanner is only an input device. It only sends a data package containing the data read from the sensor. Replacing it with another sensor doesnt somehow make the phone open up. It still has to send a data package to the SoC so it can be confirmed by the security inside the die.
The screen needs no calibration. Again QC at the point of manufacturing "calibrates" the screen. It would be very dumb manufacturer processes if all of your devices come off the line not in good working calibration. These are phone screens not electron scanning microscopes.

Actually YOU are incorrect. The secure element requires end to end encryption. The Touch ID sensor must be specially authorized to interact with the secure element chip. Only Apple has the tools to do grant that sensor authorization to maintain security and integrity. This is what part of what the calibration process does.

 

[JediZenMaster]

The cave men fixed my iPad 4 beautifully. Significant cheaper than these so called Genius.

That’s great however not you or anyone else on this board is gonna make me not go to the Genius Bar and I’m not changing my opinion!

 

[Sedulous]

HQ actually Cupertino and that’s a fact that all Geniuses are trained there.

Not anymore. As mentioned before, they watch prerecorded videos in the back of the Apple Store.
[doublepost=1523577000][/doublepost]

That’s great however not you or anyone else on this board is gonna make me not go to the Genius Bar and I’m not changing my opinion!

There are several examples of third party repairs being actually superior to Apple’s. Apple sometimes makes unwise engineering choices. The MacBook c7771 design flaw immediately comes to mind. Apple repairs this by charging $800 for a new logic board and throws the old one in the trash. This capacitor will again burn out and another $800 for another board. Why? Because Apple used a capacitor not rated for the job it has. A third party repair knows to replace the $0.2 capacitor with one rated for job and will not burn out. I have done several of these myself.

 

[C DM]

If you break your car you pay for repairs to said car. Cheap repairers break things or aren’t as good.

We all accept it’s not the manufacturers problem when it comes to cars.

There are plenty of mechanics in the world that repair cars without the involvement of the manufacturer/dealer. Is it then OK for the manufacturer/dealer to make it so that your car doesn't work because it got repaired by an independent mechanic?

 

[LovingTeddy]

That’s great however not you or anyone else on this board is gonna make me not go to the Genius Bar and I’m not changing my opinion!

I be honest, do not care where you want fix your phone or whatever. If you want spend the top dollars for sense of security, then by all means. I care is Apple is actively trying to prevent their party repair. I am not (*｀д´)b OK! with that.

I am not going to spend 300 dollars for a cracked screen, I would spend 50 dollars if I can get someone repair for me. Simple. If Apple managed to get monopoly on Apple devices repair, you will not see affordable options at all.

 

[C DM]

serious question, what country does Apple do business in that has an official retail location, but doesn’t offer AppleCare support?

It's likely that in those places there is an authorized retailer, but not an actual Apple store/location, and thus similarly no actual official Apple presence for repairs/replacements.

 

[LovingTeddy]

There is a lot more going on in the calibration process than color matching. The calibration process also includes testing and verification of every sensor on the display including the functionality of the multitouch and 3D Touch features to ensure it meets Apple standards. It reprograms the secure element with the new Touch ID sensor, it verifies that the flex cabling is properly seated and the display is seated correctly after being sealed. It also makes sure the right display has been used in the repair, ie no white for black swaps. Obviously there is also some verification process that matches the sensor circuitry with the iPhone logic board to ensure functionality.
[doublepost=1523572768][/doublepost]

serious question, what country does Apple do business in that has an official retail location, but doesn’t offer AppleCare support?
[doublepost=1523574099][/doublepost]

See my on page 5 of this thread for an explanation of what the calibration process does, but in a nutshell calibration is a pairing process that binds that particular display to that specific phone. Removing that display and placing it on another iPhone would cripple some features of that display. Also I’m highly skeptical that an unauthorized vendor could easily get their hands on genuine OEM Apple parts for iOS devices, and even if they could, get them at a price that would be profitable to then sell in an attempt to undercut Apple or even be competitive to Apple or other third-parties. If they are genuine then they were obtained in an unauthorized possibly illegal manner. It is possible these displays are ones that Apple rejects for various reasons after manufacturing or they just are not as genuine as they think they are. I can tell you this, all displays are serialized and tracked. There would be no way to guarantee the quality or condition of these parts. So who knows why they don’t work right other than they haven’t completed the repair to Apple standards and that includes being calibrated in some very expensive proprietary equipment an unauthorized vendor couldn’t obtain.
[doublepost=1523574902][/doublepost]

Actually YOU are incorrect. The secure element requires end to end encryption. The Touch ID sensor must be specially authorized to interact with the secure element chip. Only Apple has the tools to do grant that sensor authorization to maintain security and integrity. This is what part of what the calibration process does.

China. Well.. Apple does offer Apple Care, but they don’t have Apple retailmstore in every city. People are not going to ship out their iPhone for weeks to repair. People will just go their party repairs store to get their phone fixed.

I don’t give a damn about how the calibration process work, I expect get quick repair, so I can use my phone right away. People aren’t jus going to ship out their phone for repairs for weeks and without phone for weeks.

I get several Android phone on hand, seems none of these Android phone will have their fringer print sensor connect in such way that replace a screen will destroy finger print sensor. To me, Apple is design in such way to prevent people go other place for repair.

 

[Cezanne77]

China. Well.. Apple does offer Apple Care, but they don’t have Apple retailmstore in every city. People are not going to ship out their iPhone for weeks to repair. People will just go their party repairs store to get their phone fixed.

I don’t give a damn about how the calibration process work, I expect get quick repair, so I can use my phone right away. People aren’t jus going to ship out their phone for repairs for weeks and without phone for weeks.

I get several Android phone on hand, seems none of these Android phone will have their fringer print sensor connect in such way that replace a screen will destroy finger print sensor. To me, Apple is design in such way to prevent people go other place for repair.

If you have AppleCare+, Apple offers express shipment; they send you a box containing a new phone overnight express. You put your damaged phone into the box the replacement came in. It has a pre-printed return label. At least that’s how it works in the US. In scenarios where a damaged product has no coverage, it will be slower, but I don’t think you are looking at weeks but you are looking at days.

Granted I have no idea if any what I said applies in China. So if it works different in China then you are right your options are limited and probably suckier. At the same time you can also buy a working unlocked phones and parts right off the street too so things just work different there.

I think it goes without saying that android phones are inherently less secure than iPhones, so you get to pick your poison; either you can buy and iPhone and should it need service, get it fixed the way Apple wants to do it, but in a way that ensures you get back fully working product that the company can warranty, go to an unauthorized repair place, get it repaired with the understanding that the product may not fully work the same way again, or use android based products where it is the Wild West of options but significantly increases the risk of your privacy and data. Apple is not Burger King, you just aren’t going to have it your way.

 

[Wanted797]

There are plenty of mechanics in the world that repair cars without the involvement of the manufacturer/dealer. Is it then OK for the manufacturer/dealer to make it so that your car doesn't work because it got repaired by an independent mechanic?

You’re suggesting Apple is doing it on purpose. Is there anything suggesting that?

 

[macjunk(ie)]

You’re suggesting Apple is doing it on purpose. Is there anything suggesting that?

At this point, we do not know. Tradition says this may very well be a bug. But tradition also says that this might be a 'feature'. We will have to wait for Apple to get back on this.

 

[C DM]

You’re suggesting Apple is doing it on purpose. Is there anything suggesting that?

I'm not suggesting that any more than you are suggesting that any non-manufacturer/dealer repairs are bad simply in principle and people deserve to have bad things happen to them if they dare to do something like that.

In fact, early in the thread I have brought up the suggestion that it could very well be pretty much the opposite of what you are trying to suggest I'm saying: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...k-ambient-light-sensor.2114612/#post-25974279).

That said, that's not the aspect of it all that you brought up and I commented on in any case.

 

[JediZenMaster]

I be honest, do not care where you want fix your phone or whatever. If you want spend the top dollars for sense of security, then by all means. I care is Apple is actively trying to prevent their party repair. I am not (*｀д´)b OK! with that.

I am not going to spend 300 dollars for a cracked screen, I would spend 50 dollars if I can get someone repair for me. Simple. If Apple managed to get monopoly on Apple devices repair, you will not see affordable options at all.

Enjoy your 50.00 screen replacement and when you find out it’s the wrong screen or a subpar display that’s messed up and will fail you will have no recourse.

 

[C DM]

Enjoy your 50.00 screen replacement and when you find out it’s the wrong screen or a subpar display that’s messed up and will fail you will have no recourse.

Is that what people tell all kinds of people that take their cars to mechanics for repairs for decades and decades instead of going to much pricier dealerships? Why some sort of nonsensical double-standard?

 

[LovingTeddy]

Enjoy your 50.00 screen replacement and when you find out it’s the wrong screen or a subpar display that’s messed up and will fail you will have no recourse.

It just front digitizer. iPad 4 does not have laminated display. I highly doubt anything would go wrong.

 

[til1p]

I believe the message is crystal clear: you'll deal only with Apple and their monopolistic pricing.

As this type of thing has happened before, affecting even authorized Apple service providers, it is no accident and by design. Apple wants particularly iPhone customers entirely within their walls with no outside recourse.

Thus, buyer beware; by purchasing the product you are effectively agreeing to such terms for the life of the product, as Apple dictate same. They are not your friend in this, but a vendor imposing such terms, if covertly.

Or: Apple simply does not want to be forced to provide diagnostic tools, repair tools, training documents, etc. to outside vendors. They work hard to develop and streamline their repair process, being forced to sell parts (and anything else regarding repairs) to others would be a slap in the face to their R&D teams, their engineers, and their employees.

If the phone doesn't work right after you have someone perform unauthorized service, is that not a risk assumed?
[doublepost=1523646372][/doublepost]

Is that what people tell all kinds of people that take their cars to mechanics for repairs for decades and decades instead of going to much pricier dealerships? Why some sort of nonsensical double-standard?

Its a phone, not a car. This is not a double-standard. Why the nonsensical single-standard?
[doublepost=1523646685][/doublepost]

"HQ" aka back room of your local apple store on a iMac with training material to read. Who knew turning a screw driver was an elegant repair. Does that mean if the cavemen turn the same screws they are now elegant or "Geniuses". I hope one day a person can sit you down and show you how easy it is to fix these devices minus the software locks Apple puts on their stuff to prevent it. Whats elegant is being able to replace parts that are broken and see it work again with your own hands.

Without breaching any NDA: I did have Apple "sit down and show me" how to repair these devices. "Easy" is a gross underestimate of the work that goes into training Geniuses and the work involved to repair devices. Sure, any knucklehead can turn a screw driver. Doing it right, timely, and in a manner that meets Apple's standards, is another matter entirely.

On a side note: the software "locks" are there for your protection. If you want to tinker, get an Android.

 

[C DM]

Its a phone, not a car. This is not a double-standard. Why the nonsensical single-standard?

So basically no real rationale, just an attempt at a joke? Got it.

 

[LovingTeddy]

Or: Apple simply does not want to be forced to provide diagnostic tools, repair tools, training documents, etc. to outside vendors. They work hard to develop and streamline their repair process, being forced to sell parts (and anything else regarding repairs) to others would be a slap in the face to their R&D teams, their engineers, and their employees.

If the phone doesn't work right after you have someone perform unauthorized service, is that not a risk assumed?
[doublepost=1523646372][/doublepost]


Its a phone, not a car. This is not a double-standard. Why the nonsensical single-standard?
[doublepost=1523646685][/doublepost]


Without breaching any NDA: I did have Apple "sit down and show me" how to repair these devices. "Easy" is a gross underestimate of the work that goes into training Geniuses and the work involved to repair devices. Sure, any knucklehead can turn a screw driver. Doing it right, timely, and in a manner that meets Apple's standards, is another matter entirely.

On a side note: the software "locks" are there for your protection. If you want to tinker, get an Android.

Hell... That is exactly I went I Android phone instead of iPhone? Because widely available parts and cheap repairs?

I do not need these software lock for my protection.

 

[cirial]

This is happening to my sister in laws iPhone 8 Plus. She got her screen replaced at UBreakIFix, and after updating - her touch doesnt work on the screen.