Hey Tim, remember when you issued a public letter of apology for the steaming pile that was Apple Maps in 2012?
Yeah, it's about that time now again.
Yeah, it's about that time now again.
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University Researchers Who Built a CSAM Scanning System Urge Apple to Not Use the 'Dangerous' Technology
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I think you'd be pretty hard pressed (other than pedophiles) to find anyone that is actually against CSAM for what it does.
It's the "slippery slope" of what governments WILL do with this.
Google had developed face recognition many years ago...they were going to allow face searches on Google....the feds had them mothball this as it would have destroyed the witness protection program. (Amazon had a similar foray into this recently).
I suspect the feds did get a copy of Google's face search for their own purposes. Maybe there's a contract for that?
And, of course, we see a lot more face recognition going on today - being used in traffic cameras by law enforcement and even Walmart for frequent shoplifters.
It's not an if, it's a when with Governments. China will force Apple to turn this on for their own purposes. The "stick" that China uses is "You do this or you don't do business in our country" - it's not an empty threat. They're a big enough market, you'd be pretty hard pressed to find any company willing to turn away so much revenue. They use the "lawful access" crutch - anti-terrorism - as their justification for the requirement.
It's the "slippery slope" of what governments WILL do with this.
Google had developed face recognition many years ago...they were going to allow face searches on Google....the feds had them mothball this as it would have destroyed the witness protection program. (Amazon had a similar foray into this recently).
I suspect the feds did get a copy of Google's face search for their own purposes. Maybe there's a contract for that?
And, of course, we see a lot more face recognition going on today - being used in traffic cameras by law enforcement and even Walmart for frequent shoplifters.
It's not an if, it's a when with Governments. China will force Apple to turn this on for their own purposes. The "stick" that China uses is "You do this or you don't do business in our country" - it's not an empty threat. They're a big enough market, you'd be pretty hard pressed to find any company willing to turn away so much revenue. They use the "lawful access" crutch - anti-terrorism - as their justification for the requirement.
I'm currently conversing on-line, in real time, with a Russian tech geek colleague (of sorts), on IRC (Internet Relay Chat). In response to this whole brouhaha, he asked "Remember Huawei?" Good point. I wonder how many of Apple's defenders would be putting-forth similar defenses if it'd been Huawei announcing they were doing a similar thing?
Which leads me to another point: Anybody else notice the deafening silence on this issue from the U.S. and other governments?
Which leads me to another point: Anybody else notice the deafening silence on this issue from the U.S. and other governments?
No what you’re talking about his procedure not capability. The 30 matches or what hashes are procedure. The problem is and I think I’ve stated it before is this procedure does not limit capability. There’s nothing hardcoded that would stop Apple from changing this to one match or changing what they’re looking for. Do you really not understand this?
The only reason people got upset about Huawei is their connections with the Chinese government. The problem is Apple will do anything the Chinese government tells them to do when it comes to iPhones in China.
You’re talking about the facts you want to talk about. How about the facts you said you understand? What is your thought on those facts?
indeed, it seems a relatively simple calculation to assume that apple wouldn’t advertise the search threshold if they really want to catch child abuse predators, why shouldn’t one photo be plenty to require the secondary scan ?
to actually say “we need 30 images of children being abused before we’ll do anything” … like if they only get 25 images of children being raped, “hey, none of our business, not 30”
if their scanning / matching algorithm is so sophisticated as to only make one mistake in a trillion, and they get someone with 23 matches, i am supposed to believe that they are just going to let that go ?
this simply makes no sense at all to me
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You’re not speaking in fact sir. You’re speaking in conjecture. You have never seen apple’s implementation, no one has in the wild. Until that’s the case, and until there is a released audit, there are no facts other than what Apple presents us with. Or do you have special knowledge? More likely you’re taking assumptions as fact. Do you know what a fact is?
Again I say.....
"We have to pass the bill in order to find out whats in it" -Speaker Pelosi
By then the damage is done.
It really doesn't bother you at all that the privacy community in general has come out against this implementation? I see from your posts that you have an odd, blind trust in Apple but Apple has already shown that they will adhere to "local" laws imposed by countries in which they operate so how long until the CCP introduces pictures of Tiananmen Square protests or pro Hong-Kong imagery into the hash list or just a completely different hash list and demands Apple report on these matches per local law?
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Read. What. I. Have. Written. I. Don’t. Base. My. Opinions. On. Conjecture. I. Will. Wait. To. Read. The. Security. Reviews. And. Audits. When. They. Come. Out. Until. Then. It’s. Conspiracy. Inspired. Guesswork. Regardless. Of. Whom. Said. What.
<heavy sarcasm> Nice way of talking.
Anyway, you have read what Apple has said about it and those are the real facts, it's not all rumors like you say...
Please explain to me, in your halting, poorly punctuated style, how the written opinions of several respected industry professionals is "conspiracy inspired guesswork" and not just very informed opinions?
Well, hello there, Capt. Kirk!
Fact #1 Apple is scanning your photographs on the iPhone
Fact #2 If Apple determines they meet certain criteria they will physically view (access) your photographs
Fact #3 Apple has access to your photographs on your iPhone
You can defend Apple all you want and pretend this isn't true
Whether they use this to cross reference a CSAM database and view your photos after 30 or use it to cross reference a database provided by CCP and view them after 1 is just how it's implemented and can be changed. Once access is possible it's up to the people to determine what to use it for.
And yet, many people are against it just in general, I suppose every single person against this is now a pedophile?
YOU have never seen it implemented in the wild yet you continually inject what you think is fact when the real fact is, you know just as much as everyone else 🙄 I’m not sure you know yourself what a fact is…
This is why it’s so hard to argue for privacy and rights. Police need to be able to check houses for drugs. What you don’t want your house checked? You must support drugs
Nope I havnt seen it either. But I’m not injecting anything into it. What are you talking about? I’m talking about what Apple has said - which are the only facts we have to go in. You’re all talking about hypothetical futures based on the potential you think the tech allows.
massive difference. I’m not saying anything other than I’m not jumping on the conspiracy bandwagon until I have more actual knowledge. Not fake scary ‘knowledge’ about what may happen.
I am surprised that we have discussion on this matter.
Move on people. This is the new reality. Apple is for dummies now. I don't know many tech professionals who are not switching, after this Apple move, to Linux based desktops or even Windows with hardened security.
Even the hardest of the hardest Apple fans cannot accept the idea that their computer will be searched and scanned. This is absurdity beyond believe.
For the rest of the pseudo tech crowd - wannabe designers, "creators", Tik-Tok "stars" and music producers they will not have a problem, they don't care about this "stuff" and Apple is always right.
My designers are faced with a short list of options: Using Apple hardware with Linux and Windows VM or using macOS in the air gapped scenario. Period. And since we are using Figma which is entirely web-based using versions of macOS after Catalina is really non option.
The good news is that this event removed all marketing ******** from Apple public perception and from the mind of a lot of people. Lot of them are asking the right questions about their deep integration in Apple ecosystem. Searching for alternatives with deGoogled phones and some even moved to old school flip-phones.
Majority of Apple user base thinks like cupcakes2000, they simply believe "what Apple has said" and this is enough.
I don't have problem with this. Ultimately choices that people make define their being and reality.
Move on people. This is the new reality. Apple is for dummies now. I don't know many tech professionals who are not switching, after this Apple move, to Linux based desktops or even Windows with hardened security.
Even the hardest of the hardest Apple fans cannot accept the idea that their computer will be searched and scanned. This is absurdity beyond believe.
For the rest of the pseudo tech crowd - wannabe designers, "creators", Tik-Tok "stars" and music producers they will not have a problem, they don't care about this "stuff" and Apple is always right.
My designers are faced with a short list of options: Using Apple hardware with Linux and Windows VM or using macOS in the air gapped scenario. Period. And since we are using Figma which is entirely web-based using versions of macOS after Catalina is really non option.
The good news is that this event removed all marketing ******** from Apple public perception and from the mind of a lot of people. Lot of them are asking the right questions about their deep integration in Apple ecosystem. Searching for alternatives with deGoogled phones and some even moved to old school flip-phones.
Majority of Apple user base thinks like cupcakes2000, they simply believe "what Apple has said" and this is enough.
I don't have problem with this. Ultimately choices that people make define their being and reality.
And yet I haven’t once said that. I have said wait to see some kind of proof.
You can take what amounts to fake news and whip it how you want, in your imaginary world of designers using Linux and ‘music producers’, yet the absolute simple fact remains is that you know nothing about it, other than what better people than you have guessed at.
I don’t work like that, with anything. It’s got nothing to do with this situation or any other. It’s a simple thing- internet hype and conspiracy hearsay absolutely does not factor as any form of fact. Once it’s released and once people and researchers have issued their findings, then we can all talk about it. Until then- it’s you that is the sheep, not I.
From one of my security newsletters. I'll just leave this here, being as the article and one of the editors nicely make my point for me.
A few dozen or so pages back I posted an article where some person became a prime suspect in a burglary just because he rode his bike past recently robbed house. Google was involved there.