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University Researchers Who Built a CSAM Scanning System Urge Apple to Not Use the 'Dangerous' Technology

Comparing speeding, including road deaths or not, to child abuse is abhorrent, by the way.
i know what you’re trying to say, obviously. But what a disgusting way to try to prove your point.
Playfoot said:
For me, a simple question is in order. For all those who claim the hash system is acceptable, safe, indeed a moral and societal necessity then using Apple technology in cars to report speeding is also acceptable.

After all, approximately 40,000 people die and over 4 million require significant medical care annually. Compound those numbers with grieving families and friends, and I assume more are impacted than by CSAM.

Apple can and does track routes, and knows when someone is speeding if its technology is in a vehicle. So, if with the introduction of iOS16 Apple starts reporting speeders to the police, obviously with an Apple employee reviewing the data, ALL of those in favour of the CSAM would accept this.

So, supporters of CSAM technology, would you support this? Yes, or no?

A simple question.
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cupcakes2000 said:
Comparing speeding, including road deaths or not, to child abuse is abhorrent, by the way.
i know what you’re trying to say, obviously. But what a disgusting way to try to prove your point.
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Yet, you didn't answer the question....

And yes, I agree CSAM is absolutely terrible. However, having worked as volunteer for an ambulance service when younger, and as a private citizen helping at road accidents, the carnage, sense of loss of the survivors is also horrible. Yet, it seems that one is accepted, and the other isn't.
 
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Schismz said:
Didn't Microsoft do an IBM soul-searching kinda journey to try and figure out what it should do with itself now, while Bill Gates spent more time pursing his sex-life and promoting globalism?

Google started with: don't be evil.
This morphed to: do the right thing.
We're currently at: be evil, and flee the country.

Where are the founders of Google? Well, Sergey and Larry are living on super yachts and buying islands in Fiji and citizenship in New Zealand, while Eric Schmidt has bailed for Cyprus.

googleleaksbook.com

Google Leaks: A Whistleblower's Exposé of Big Tech Censorship

The madness of Big Tech and their attempt to mold our reality into a version compatible with their socialist view of the world has never...
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Google is currently at: Don't be evil. We've got you covered.
 
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Because red light cameras worked so darn well!

Actually, the right to face your accuser in a court of law put those things to rest, and so would if any other digital assitant or AI were issuing tickets. It's unconstitutional, violates due process and the right to face your accuser in court so hopefully will never happen.

I always wanted to see a court though where they have to pull the camera and place it in the witness stand, and the person says "So...you saw me speeding on [insert date here] eh? Oh? Not talking, eh? Your honor, this witness is not speaking!"
 
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Playfoot said:
Yet, you didn't answer the question....

And yes, I agree CSAM is absolutely terrible. However, having worked as volunteer for an ambulance service when younger, and as a private citizen helping at road accidents, the carnage, sense of loss of the survivors is also horrible. Yet, it seems that one is accepted, and the other isn't.
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There is no question to answer. It’s a pointless comparison unless you believe that this function is immediately untrustworthy without even seeing it for yourself and/or reading any audits that are made available upon release.

I’ll continue to make this point until the product is released and properly tested, then I’ll form my opinion on whether I will continue to trust Apples hardware or software.

Doing so before it’s even in anyones hands is folly - regardless of the preconceptions you or anyone has.
 
cupcakes2000 said:
There is no question to answer. It’s a pointless comparison unless you believe that this function is immediately untrustworthy without even seeing it for yourself and/or reading any audits that are made available upon release.

I’ll continue to make this point until the product is released and properly tested, then I’ll form my opinion on whether I will continue to trust Apples hardware or software.

Doing so before it’s even in anyones hands is folly - regardless of the preconceptions you or anyone has.
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Again, you didn't answer the question.

The matter of trustworthy or untrustworthy is not the issue. The question is, do you believe the technology should be used to report speeding. The technology is in place on devices, speeding causes accidents, harms society. Checks and balances can be the same as with CSAM, complete with final human review.

Do you believe the technology should be used to report speeding?
 
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nickdalzell1 said:
Because red light cameras worked so darn well!

Actually, the right to face your accuser in a court of law put those things to rest, and so would if any other digital assitant or AI were issuing tickets. It's unconstitutional, violates due process and the right to face your accuser in court so hopefully will never happen.

I always wanted to see a court though where they have to pull the camera and place it in the witness stand, and the person says "So...you saw me speeding on [insert date here] eh? Oh? Not talking, eh? Your honor, this witness is not speaking!"
Click to expand...
Again, not to be difficult, you didn't answer the question. Rather you raised constitutional issues much in the same was as some have for CSAM on device search and review, the right to face the accuser, etc. Also, it is not the AI issuing the ticket. Final Apple review would send the information to the authorities who would then follow up...

There are many jurisdictions were speed cameras are acceptable under the Law of the land. IF an accused wants to contest, he or she must then attend a hearing in court.
 
Playfoot said:
Again, you didn't answer the question.
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please read:
cupcakes2000 said:
There is no question to answer. It’s a pointless comparison unless you believe that this function is immediately untrustworthy without even seeing it for yourself and/or reading any audits that are made available upon release.

I’ll continue to make this point until the product is released and properly tested, then I’ll form my opinion on whether I will continue to trust Apples hardware or software.

Doing so before it’s even in anyones hands is folly - regardless of the preconceptions you or anyone has.
Click to expand...
 
cupcakes2000 said:
There is no question to answer. It’s a pointless comparison unless you believe that this function is immediately untrustworthy without even seeing it for yourself and/or reading any audits that are made available upon release.

I’ll continue to make this point until the product is released and properly tested, then I’ll form my opinion on whether I will continue to trust Apples hardware or software.

Doing so before it’s even in anyones hands is folly - regardless of the preconceptions you or anyone has.
Click to expand...
Yes there *is* a question to answer. He’s asking you if you support this CSAM reporting (because it helps protect children) it would seem you would also support Apple tracking and reporting speeding behavior (which similarly helps protect victims of speeders). And, if not, why is it different?
 
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hagar said:
And again, what if China somehow does manage to compromise the DB. What then? An iCloud account will flagged, Apple will verify and notice immediately their system has been tampered with.
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China won’t need to compromise the system, Apple will let them walk right in…
 
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The future AppleCar will be interesting. I wonder if Apple will just prevent speeding, or allow it and report it to the police and/or your insurance company. Everyone will welcome the built in Breathalyzer feature that reports drunk driving to the cops.

PC_tech said:
China won’t need to compromise the system, Apple will let them walk right in…
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China still can't make them do what they are are unable to do. Now Apple can't make that argument as they have created an AI driven surveillance module for the iPhone. This is much more powerful than just scanning user data in iCloud storage which they were limited to previously. The fact that Apple is currently limiting it to a specific subset of things Apple doesn't like and to the US and to things illegal there, doesn't take away that the general surveillance is in every device sold and Apple is willing to use it. Even in the US Apple can easily expand it to more things they don't like after people get used to it.
 
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Playfoot said:
Again, not to be difficult, you didn't answer the question. Rather you raised constitutional issues much in the same was as some have for CSAM on device search and review, the right to face the accuser, etc. Also, it is not the AI issuing the ticket. Final Apple review would send the information to the authorities who would then follow up...

There are many jurisdictions were speed cameras are acceptable under the Law of the land. IF an accused wants to contest, he or she must then attend a hearing in court.
Click to expand...
He’s never going to give you a straight answer….
 
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BurgDog said:
The future AppleCar will be interesting. I wonder if Apple will just prevent speeding, or allow it and report it to the police and/or your insurance company. Everyone will welcome the built in Breathalyzer feature that reports drunk driving to the cops.


China still can't make them do what they are are unable to do. Now Apple can't make that argument as they have created an AI driven surveillance module for the iPhone. This is much more powerful than just scanning user data in iCloud storage which they were limited to previously. The fact that Apple is currently limiting it to a specific subset of things Apple doesn't like and to the US and to things illegal there, doesn't take away that the general surveillance is in every device sold and Apple is willing to use it. Even in the US Apple can easily expand it to more things they don't like after people get used to it.
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It’s not an AI driven surveillance module.
 
MadeTheSwitch said:
I’m wondering how many have to say NO to this, before Apple gets it?
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1629926320551.png


They know best.
 
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Playfoot said:
Forgive me if I am mistaken. However, I believe in many of your posts you have been defending the legality, the morality and technology. If my memory is correct, how is answering the clearly stated question any different?
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All I have defended is the simple fact that there is no proof of anything, yet one person here is going mental about the world turning into nazi Germany, among many other huge reaches before anyone knows anything.
pdoherty said:
Yes there *is* a question to answer. He’s asking you if you support this CSAM reporting (because it helps protect children) it would seem you would also support Apple tracking and reporting speeding behavior (which similarly helps protect victims of speeders). And, if not, why is it different?
Click to expand...
Nope. Why do I need to answer any questions?! If you’re asking why finding perpetrators of child abuse is more important than finding people who speed in their car, then I think the answer is fairly obvious. There is always a victim in child abuse. This is not the case with speeding, which only involves accidents.
Road carnage is awful, but it’s not at all in the same league. What a terrible thing to equate.
However, I’m not sure the op was entirely asking this which you have asked - I think they meant more like - opening this door could enable other types of ‘spying’, and am I ok with that as I appear ok with this current casm thing.
And my answer to that is as I have stated many many times - it’s a hypothetical question based around internet hysteria. Until we and researchers have it in our hands then there is no point wittering on about it. I’ll form my opinion when I have some solid facts on it.
PC_tech said:
He’s never going to give you a straight answer….
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I have been giving extremely straight answers.
 
cupcakes2000 said:
I’ll continue to make this point until the product is released and properly tested, then I’ll form my opinion on whether I will continue to trust Apples hardware or software.

Doing so before it’s even in anyones hands is folly - regardless of the preconceptions you or anyone has.
Click to expand...

"We have to pass the bill in order to find out whats in it" -Speaker Pelosi

Shouldn't it be properly tested BEFORE it is released??? Better to stop it now versus allowing it to fail or be abused.
 
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icanhazmac said:
"We have to pass the bill in order to find out whats in it" -Speaker Pelosi

Shouldn't it be properly tested BEFORE it is released??? Better to stop it now versus allowing it to fail or be abused.
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I’m sure it’s properly tested, that’s not what I meant. And it will likely be audited before release - ios security stuff is under normal circumstances.
i just mean I can’t follow the opinions of many in this thread as it’s based off of nothing so far other than hearsay.
 
pdoherty said:
Yes there *is* a question to answer. He’s asking you if you support this CSAM reporting (because it helps protect children) it would seem you would also support Apple tracking and reporting speeding behavior (which similarly helps protect victims of speeders). And, if not, why is it different?
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Thank you.

Stated much better than I ever could have done.

Yes, there is a question. However, it seems no one wants to answer.
 
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