Yes. They literally are the same and for the exact reason I mentioned. Unless you’re watching a movie in a theater, or on YouTube, you’re watching 23.976. There’s zero perceptible difference. The judder you see is because 24 FPS is antiquated garbage and 60 hz TVs introduce judder. All consumer equipment on ATSC is 23.976. Physical Blu rays included. Anything not ATSC, like in Europe, is 25 FPS. So anything shot on something like a Canon 5D Mark IV at “true 24” would need to be edited to 99.9% speed to fit proper timing for broadcast. It would also run 4 seconds longer per hour.No. They’re not the same. At all. That’s why there’s a massive thread over at AVS. Watching 24.000fps movies/tv shows on Apple TV 4K’s supported 23.976fps output is a juddery mess.
However, I must have missed this piece of news because it appears that FINALLY (it’s been years!) we’re getting proper 24.000fps support on Apple TV 4K with tvOS 14.5!
Apple TV: tvOS 14.5 to support both 24.000fps and 23.976fps
The holy grail of frame rate matchingwww.flatpanelshd.com
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Upcoming Apple TV Could Support 120Hz Refresh Rate According to tvOS 14.5 Beta Code
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If that were true, they wouldn’t have killed the HomePod, time capsule, airport, ...
The only reason the ATV is still around is the integration with Apple’s ecosystem like Arcade, TV+, HomeKit and the App Store. They would piss off a lot of developers. But as a premium hardware device, it’s definitely a failure at 2% market share, and Apple more likely loses money on it. An update could be years away. If it comes at all.
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Just for the record, most non-US TV shows (and, heck - even many of USA Netflix's own shows) are broadcast at EXACTLY 24.000fps. MOST USA movies at home - 23.976fps. This isn't debatable - it's just fact, - easily verifiable by anyone. Most foreign movies, however, are 24.000fps. Please do some reading about this. There's a reason there's a massive thread over on the AVS about this problem:
[fixed!] Apple TV 4K lacks support for 24.000 video
//EDIT 26th April 2021: I still cant believe what I'm writing as I have given up hope. I guess cows are flying and hell is frozen over now. With iOS 14.5 Apple has finally added integer frame rates such as 24.000 and 60.000. The below behaviour does not apply anymore. I recently got an ATV 4K...
Bottom line, prior to these iOS 14.5 betas, watching foreign shows (e.g. Dark) was a joke, since Apple TV 4K would just play back the show at 23.976fps, which is incorrect, causing unwanted judder/skips every 41 seconds. This is now resolved. 23.976fps shows/movies play back at 23.976fps, and 24.000fps movies/tv shows play back at 24.000fps.
Some further reading for you:
Just to push the point home, I don't care if the media is broadcast at 23.976fps or 24.000fps. I just care that the device playing back this media can accurately switch to either frame-rate, which - until tvOS 14.5, - the Apple TV 4K could not, displaying 24.000fps content at 23.976fps - which is just flat-out wrong. My display devices (projectors, OLEDs etc) can play back either frame-rate. This is nothing to do with 2:3 pulldown.
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They don't always sell their consoles at a loss, it's usually only in the first couple of years, plus loss is relative. Apple could afford to hand the things away with the amount of capital they have saved up. You're also missing the fact they don't have to pay for a CPU/GPU from AMD/Nvidia/Intel, they have their own. The cost of the chip R&D and production spread across their entire lineup is unquestionably less than what Sony and Microsoft pay AMD for the APU.
The only real difference between an Apple TV and a PS5 is the chip and memory performance/size - what I was suggesting is using a custom M1X with some DDR5/SRAM mix or GDDR6X with some adequate cooling and you essentially have a game console.
What I'm really getting at is Apple could build a competitive game console for LESS than Sony or Microsoft as they already build their own CPU/GPU/storage controllers etc. Apple also have economies of scale that Sony and Microsoft can only dream of in terms of commodity purchases of memory chips etc.
The real hurdle is getting developers to support ArmV8 along with x86 as emulation will never work for the latest games, plus Apple has no in house studios. From a hardware/cost standpoint I think it's a relatively simple step for Apple, from a games standpoint it seems like an almost insurmountable hurdle, as half baked ports would squander any hardware advantage.
PC/PS5/XSX are essentially running almost the same hardware these days, an M1X console would be a complete departure.
If you think Apple can compete this late in the game with Sony/Microsoft and Nintendo on games I have a bridge to sell you in Manhattan
Apple would need to counter GamePass, even Sony is struggling with that. Having a good list of first party games would be helpful. Yes the hardware matters, but (for consoles) the games matter more.
Never get a Samsung TV in any case: not supporting all TV standards properly, bad picture quality, unnatural colours (even calibration doesn't help much), slow (outdated) cpu inside causing slow GUI control, software support is laughable. Especially in my professional experience... do not use Samsung. Yes their devices are cheaper, but do not expect quality, rugged or functional "smart" software inside.
Personally, I'm waiting for other TV brands to revert to developing a simple TV with very good picture quality again that does not have any so called "smart" things inside. An AppleTV 4K is way better for al "smart" things. Even a RasberryPi is better than the crap that's inside most TV's.
I bought the current AppleTV 4K back in 2017 just as a gimmick. Back then I was very sceptical about IPTV and stuff. I had seen the older AppleTV 2, so I wasn't expecting much, but man... the AppleTV 4K amazed me. The Netflix app alone was way faster than the one on a "state of the art" test set topbox I got from the cable company. Within a month it replaced our cable box at home. My family loves it. With all the subscriptions we use, it is cheaper than cable.
And today, with all the newer services it still works faster and easier than the "smart" top notch TV's. It only requires a ethernet cable or good wifi (802.11ac).
If Apple releases a newer AppleTV, I probably buy one if the graphics performance is exponential bigger. if the device will be the same size and the remote gets a find-my-remote option.
I don’t think smart tv’s are going anywhere. You‘ll probably want to look into short throw projectors to get a device that just displays content with good PQ.
FWIW a lot of people said that about Microsoft comparing to Sony, Sega, and Nintendo when the XBox came out. Remember, Halo was originally a Mac targeted title until Microsoft bought Bungie - and Apple has a lot more money now than MS did then
look at the Nvidia shield also the same price as the appletv4k's. They came out in what 2015 and there was an update in 2017 and another update in 2019 and they really haven't changed much since 2015. Relatively the same chip and speed. Sure there is ai enhanced but its still not on par with appletv4k picture it gives. I have both and I still prefer the look of everything with the appletv. The chips from 2017 to 2019 are basically the same and test shows speed difference is the same so that's a wash. So really they haven't changed these much since the launch 6 years ago.
So what other premium device can compete? The appletv's chip is faster than the shield from my experience. Ive loaded Kodi onto my appletv and it runs faster than on the shield. These lag and there's little bugs all over the place with the shield. The level of fit and finish with apps from apple to an android device from what ive noticed is laughable. I have to restart the shield every 3-5 days or it gives me problems. Sometimes freezes if I go longer. It could be having large hard drives connected but its very buggy and unpolished apps and interface aka 1080p upscaled fuzziness is all there.
That's besides the point I was trying to make that even the higher end set top boxes don't get updated very often and they still cant compete with the older 4k appletv hardware wise. They have more features but that's all.
all apple needs to do to push out Nvidia in the market is release another appletv with usb's and a Plex server and the ability to play passthrough audio. They could add that for around the same price and kill it in the tv streaming home media device with the ability to have your own server built into these things. But that would hurt their sales of the Mac mini.
4k 120hz is the sweet spot for sure. It’s still way too early for 8k. While 120hz is a true leap forward, that is long overdue.
Is it? It's not as if people are doing competitive gaming on the Apple TV. And 4k 120Hz will only be possible on the most basic 2D games that don't really need 120 fps anyway.
The UI will appear smoother, but is it really a leap forward for an interface that you hardly use for scrolling or drawing on screen? Sure, animations will look even better, but 60 fps wasn't bad.
As for 8k, can you actually tell the difference at normal viewing distance? For me, 8k TV is nothing more that a number of a spec sheet and a waste or energy. It can make a difference for VR headsets and very wide PC monitors, but for TVs...
Smart TVs will stop being smart around the same time that mobile phones only work as phones
Its kind of like the first 15 years of the digital mobile phone era: when the internet came along it still took years for applications to mature with lots of crappy phones and crappy software along the way (just remembering Steve's keynote of 2007). AppleTV is following a similar path. Greatly depending on developments in hardware, online services, finding the right user interface and good internet access. I find it fascinating how all these things have turned out so far.
for sure! i always tell people who talk about the insignificance of apple's/iphone's influence on today — (re)watch the first iphone keynote and pay attention to what causes the most applause. we take all these things for granted now, but they didn't exist until the first iphone was released.
To be honest HDMI 2.1 really feels like it was geared towards either 8K or Gamers.
"from a games standpoint it seems like an almost insurmountable hurdle"
Uh, yeah. I know. The article is implying people are buying 120 Hz TVs because of the latest-gen gaming consoles, when 120 Hz sets have existed for several years and are being bought for home video content really.
Apple TV 8k HDR - Apple you barely pay attention to this device so at least make it future proof for a few years.
