The only difference between the Core i7 920 and the quad-core Mac Pro's Xeon is ECC support.
So, like I said, if you're happy without ECC RAM, there it is.
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The only difference between the Core i7 920 and the quad-core Mac Pro's Xeon is ECC support.
So, like I said, if you're happy without ECC RAM, there it is.
The big vendors like Dell and HP haven't updated yet as they are waiting for Xeon parts to be released, unless you are happy with a "consumer" system. There are plenty of companies shipping workstations with i7 processors that will be no different than their eventual single socket Xeon systems aside from ECC support.
If Dell continue with their current price ideology then I'd expect something equal to the quad Mac Pros replacing the precision T3400 to cost $500-700 less than Apple's offering and include 3 years warranty so maybe $1000 less depending how you look at it. The other difference being the Dell will also probably be available with much more minimal specifications than the Apple models for those looking to cut costs.
DP systems will probably be of a similar price to Apple, though something with two 2.26GHz processors might be under $3,000.
Everytime I've custom configured a Dell to match a Mac Pro or a PowerMac (yes I've done it since then) the Dell was always more. And when I say match, I mean configured the way I want; nothing watered down.
-mark
Let's get to the bottom of this, and start by asking if you actually bought a new Mac Pro, like I did? The new MP is great, but also very much manufactured in China. Not to mention that mine didn't work very long, that is my power supply started to produce weird noises and the smoke came out of it. Yet I'm not mad, but boy was I disappointed.
Yes, the new MP's are the fastest Apple computers, but I'm afraid that I have bad news for you: we received three new motherboards today, all three support dual Xeon 5500's and can run at higher clock rates - this because of the over clock abilities.
Just keep reading the usual hardware sites, and you'll see what we found out today.
Not really, because I have one. And I also like it very much - despite the fact that the first one had to be replaced after a few days only. I'm also editor of a certain Mac magazine, so I'm a long time Apple user.
However, I am neither an Apple nor PC fan, but Apple PC's are just PC's too these days. And because of this it is fair that people try to compare hardware components, but I admit that the casing and mother/daughter boards are hard to compare with other hardware at this moment.
Yes, I did OC my 2008 MP, and that worked great - some of us need more power, to do more things in less time. You know efficiency... so that's why I look beyond the usual and standard hardware/settings. I tell you that can be a lot of fun.
Let's go back on-topic: It's great to have a great looking internal casing, as long as you don't have to pay a heavy price for it - I rather have a PC that works, and for a long time without any trouble (I'm not much of a case mod guy anyway).
The fact that you can't really upgrade your memory (memory limit for single CPU MP) and can no longer add that second CPU (for many people a deal breaker) which basically means that your benchmark results (hello) will most likely stay put forever
Think about this: Why are there two different systems? But since Apple didn't really sell that second CPU, really, I'm not surprised. Not at all.
Yes that was the case with the past Mac Pros even when Dell heavily discounted to clear old processors for the upcomming ones. Apple even advertised the fact when they introduced them. However Apple have changed the value now by putting in cheaper components and charging more. So the gap will likely close.
Fantastic post. This was a pleasure to read.
Maybe. Or, things might end up just as they have been in the past; with Apple offering a very competitively priced workstation. We'll have to wait and see.
For interest sakes, my Hackintosh seems to work reliably at 3.42GHz but anymore kernel panics start to happen. This is achieved by increasing the clock speed under the BIOS.
Added the Mac Pro results from the story and my MacBook Pro for a comparison
And here are the results:
Added the Mac Pro results from the story and my MacBook Pro for a comparison
And here are the results:
Attachments
For interest sakes, my Hackintosh seems to work reliably at 3.42GHz but anymore kernel panics start to happen. This is achieved by increasing the clock speed under the BIOS.
Added the Mac Pro results from the story and my MacBook Pro for a comparison
And here are the results:
why does the 2.66ghz FLOGG your 3.4GHz hack?? or is the 2.66GHz an octo?? you dont specify..
acutally wait yes you do.. mybad, eyes are getting old
p.s. how much did u pay for that? in australian please
im also here.why does the 2.66ghz FLOGG your 3.4GHz hack?? or is the 2.66GHz an octo?? you dont specify..
acutally wait yes you do.. mybad, eyes are getting old
p.s. how much did u pay for that? in australian please
The longer the bar the better it is in this test. The 2.66GHz is my system at regular speed, 3.42GHz is when its Over Clocked to the maximum stable speed.
Go to page 3 of this thread there I have put up a PDF of the whole system including cost of parts.
lol yes i know the 2.66ghz is the standard clock. the 2.66 octo seems to flogg your hackintosh.. id hate to see what an octo 2.93ghz would do to it in multitasking!
aahh that was your PC, ill take a look at it!
why does the 2.66ghz FLOGG your 3.4GHz hack?? or is the 2.66GHz an octo?? you dont specify..
acutally wait yes you do.. mybad, eyes are getting old
p.s. how much did u pay for that? in australian please
You know, when you own a MacBook pro, have high end audio gear, editing software and can bud a pc that overclocks and run stable for 2-3 years, it sure is hard to not build a hack for $500 dollars and get near octo performance for 1/5th the price. Not bad for the cost of a drum pad really and the hack crowd has come a long way.
In fact, sort of hard to justify when Apple still doesn't use the i7 chips and lower clock speed. I suppose for me, I wonder what you can build that runs as quiet. That is worth the price, especially with audio production.
you write very confusingly!!!!!
i currently have a hack, it cost me $500 (australian, so way less then where you are) and its great! im all for building a hack if you want to! there is nothing wrong with it, however i dont know what your saying...why do drum pads come into it??
Yeah no doubt about that, considering the Mac Pro 2.66GHz Octo is AU$8449, you'd hope it would beat my $1653 system. I also think the 2.26GHz Octo (AU$5899) would beat my system a fair bit in some other benchmarks that could utilise the 16 virtual cores better. Also imagine over clocking the Octo Mac Pros, what results that'll give! Only a matter of time before someone figures out how to do it.
yea the prices are pretty rediculous but thats what you get i guess... cant change it.. they are the only computers available in their class at the moment, no other company in the world currently sells them!!
its virtually impossible to overclock an apple computer, basically because of the locked multipliers and harder to access EFI
You could build yourself a really silent i7 Hackintosh:
Firstly you need a silent case, the Lian Li P60F I have is very silent, but you can get better. I have a friend with the Antec 900 its dead silent.
Then you need a silent Power supply, most quality ones these days are including the one I used (Seasonic S12 Energy+ 650W).
Then you will remove the heat sink fan from the i7 and the Graphics card and replace them with passive heat sinks.
For most graphics cards: Artic Accelero S1 Rev.2 (I have ordered one)
For the i7: Cooler Master Hyper Z600
Pro machines
MAc PRO machines are expensive, but they are designed for PRO users. Those who gets paid $100 /h and then an expensive machine is not much.
I just bought an Dell T7400 they start at $1500 but my machine ended at $7500 (2xX5460, 16G, 2 SAS 300GB, 2 x FX3700) so PRO machines are expensive!
Pro users wants PRO support, the software we have installed are normally more expensive then the machine, and the support local computer support and infrastructure: backup, network, storage, etc is at least as expensive as the computer per year.
PRO users do not want hackintosh built different every time without support, they want reliable solid computers, that works. I cant call my software support hotline with a problem running a Hackintosh, they will just tell me -get a certified computer and come back.
MAc PRO machines are expensive, but they are designed for PRO users. Those who gets paid $100 /h and then an expensive machine is not much.
I just bought an Dell T7400 they start at $1500 but my machine ended at $7500 (2xX5460, 16G, 2 SAS 300GB, 2 x FX3700) so PRO machines are expensive!
Pro users wants PRO support, the software we have installed are normally more expensive then the machine, and the support local computer support and infrastructure: backup, network, storage, etc is at least as expensive as the computer per year.
PRO users do not want hackintosh built different every time without support, they want reliable solid computers, that works. I cant call my software support hotline with a problem running a Hackintosh, they will just tell me -get a certified computer and come back.
That is fair enough. I'm also not debating the Pro-ness of the Dual CPU Mac Pros, I think they are excellent machines and you do get what you pay for.
But the single CPU machine is just an i7 with ECC, and has less memory support than most regular i7 machines, with a maximum of 8GB of RAM in a Dual-channel configuration. Rather than the "Consumer's" maximum of 24GB in Triple-channel. So a pro would step up to the Dual CPU configuration (since money isn't an issue apparently). Thus the low end Mac "Pro" is targeted for consumers who love to spend lots of money (AU$2500) on a pretty case/ apple tax.
Network, backup, storage, software works the same on a Hackintosh as on a normal Mac, its basically the same thing minus the EFI, but you add on the EFI on the EFI partition on the hard drive, or purchase an EFI-X rather than having it on the Firmware chip.
But I understand for a large business with an unlimited budget and corporate leaders who know nothing about computers will go "oh, nah, not the same thing, doesnt have the Apple logo on it"
Of course I agree with you.
But the more I read the thread, the more I understand that most of the users (non pro) won't get any of the argument you put on the table and will just keep on saying that there is cheaper stuff with same stability, that ecc is not useful, that you can build a dell for less $$ and hardware equivalent (please stop those post!! We use OSX at work and have more the 10000$ software on this os!) or that you can build yourself a custom system... without considering elements like the fact that pro DON'T HAVE TIME to open a box, even if THEY DO KNOW ABOUT COMPUTER. (And there are many others elements i won't repeat but that can be found on previous posts)
It is totally useless to try to justify a 6000$ computer's expense to a person who's not earning anything from his machine, and probably using a cracked version of cs4 suite, fcp, maya.
Yet again, the constant rationalization for a woeful lack of competitive cutting edge technology with the ludicrous claim that Apple is ahead of the curve instead of far behind what its high-end content creators needed last year.
Apple takes that long, and it will be in the Amiga graveyard where it will belong.
Still relevant to your Blu-ray rants:
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/7252115/
You don't understand the issue - it's not whether the 13.3" screen is ideal for seeing full 1080p quality.
The issue is that we're buying BD movies for our home systems, and we can play them on our Windows machines just fine.
Apples can't play them, though. Are we supposed to buy both BD discs and DVD discs just because of Apple's pig-headedness? Or are we supposed to buy Windows systems from other companies if we want to play BD discs? (The latter works for me. )
By the way, I'd rather watch a 1920x1080 BD movie scaled *down* to fit the 13.3" 1280x800 screen, rather than the 640x480 (or sometimes 720x480) DVD movie scaled *up* to fit!
And, of course, the video professionals and amateurs would like to author Blu-ray titles on their Macs, but that's another discussion entirely.
Perhaps you should look and see that 10 of the top 16 bestselling TVs at Amazon are 40" or larger.... In fact, 6 of the top 16 are 52" sets. http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172659/ref=pd_ts_e_nav
And, while you're at Amazon, notice that 3 of the top 5 selling "DVD" players are actually Blu-ray players! http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172514/ref=pd_ts_e_nav
Fortunately, your opinion doesn't match up with the facts about Blu-ray.
and
and
You don't understand the issue - it's not whether the 13.3" screen is ideal for seeing full 1080p quality.
The issue is that we're buying BD movies for our home systems, and we can play them on our Windows machines just fine.
Apples can't play them, though. Are we supposed to buy both BD discs and DVD discs just because of Apple's pig-headedness? Or are we supposed to buy Windows systems from other companies if we want to play BD discs? (The latter works for me.
)By the way, I'd rather watch a 1920x1080 BD movie scaled *down* to fit the 13.3" 1280x800 screen, rather than the 640x480 (or sometimes 720x480) DVD movie scaled *up* to fit!
And, of course, the video professionals and amateurs would like to author Blu-ray titles on their Macs, but that's another discussion entirely.
Perhaps you should look and see that 10 of the top 16 bestselling TVs at Amazon are 40" or larger.... In fact, 6 of the top 16 are 52" sets. http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172659/ref=pd_ts_e_nav
And, while you're at Amazon, notice that 3 of the top 5 selling "DVD" players are actually Blu-ray players! http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172514/ref=pd_ts_e_nav
Fortunately, your opinion doesn't match up with the facts about Blu-ray.
Blu-ray Sales on the Rise in Japan
March 6, 2009 by Josh Dreuth
According to a recent report from GfK Marketing Services Japan Ltd (GfK Japan), sales of Blu-ray Disc recorders increased by over 800% last year in Japan. In 2007, only 160,000 Blu-ray Disc recorders were sold in the country, but that number jumped to 1.34 Million units in 2008, representing a huge uptake in adoption of the high definition format.
The overall optical disc market decreased by 1%, but DVD recorders dipped by 26% as the format gives up ground to Blu-ray. Last year, Blu-ray recorders represented 37% of all optical recorder sales (53% of revenue), and that number is expected to grow substantially this year.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=2469
March 6, 2009 by Josh Dreuth
According to a recent report from GfK Marketing Services Japan Ltd (GfK Japan), sales of Blu-ray Disc recorders increased by over 800% last year in Japan. In 2007, only 160,000 Blu-ray Disc recorders were sold in the country, but that number jumped to 1.34 Million units in 2008, representing a huge uptake in adoption of the high definition format.
The overall optical disc market decreased by 1%, but DVD recorders dipped by 26% as the format gives up ground to Blu-ray. Last year, Blu-ray recorders represented 37% of all optical recorder sales (53% of revenue), and that number is expected to grow substantially this year.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=2469
and
Blu-ray is being adopted faster than DVD
January 3, 2009 by Mike Ferro
It was a stellar holiday season for Blu-ray with movies like The Dark Knight breaking records. According to two research firms, Blu-ray movies and players were top on most holiday shopper's list. This is pretty much what I predicted a few months back when I compared Blu-ray as this year's Tickle me Elmo.
According to DVDFile, surveys conducted by both, Greenfield and Zogby International, Blu-ray players and movies were ranked high on holiday shopper's lists. In the survey conducted by Greenfield, it also indicated that Blu-ray players were number one on the list of HD TV owners. The survey conducted by Zogby revealed similar results ranking Blu-ray players as second on the list after HD TV.
I indicated that there will be a strong correlation between HD TV adoption and Blu-ray, and these two studies definitely show this to be true. Blu-ray sales are starting to eat away at DVD sales, similarly to how DVD sales ate away at VHS sales over 10 years ago. According to Richard Greenfield, analyst for Pali Capital, indicated that results for 2008 are expected to show a decrease in DVD sales by 6%. This is in contrast to original predictions of flat sales for the year.
Greenfield also indicated that the adoption rate for Blu-ray is much faster than DVD was. He states, "Interestingly, two years into the standard DVD cycle, the DVD installed base was only 1.2 million and players were not nearly as inexpensive as $129 [BD players were] on Black Friday." As indicated before, Blu-ray sales are twice of that of DVDs at the same point in its life.
I predict that the Blu-ray adoption rate is actually much faster than twice that of DVDs when you consider out of the two years on the market, only one year was really spent as the sole format. The first year was spent battling it out with HD-DVD splintering the market in half while leaving many on the fence. This holiday definitely showed that consumers have made the jump to Blu-ray.
http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.cfm?ID=18670
January 3, 2009 by Mike Ferro
It was a stellar holiday season for Blu-ray with movies like The Dark Knight breaking records. According to two research firms, Blu-ray movies and players were top on most holiday shopper's list. This is pretty much what I predicted a few months back when I compared Blu-ray as this year's Tickle me Elmo.
According to DVDFile, surveys conducted by both, Greenfield and Zogby International, Blu-ray players and movies were ranked high on holiday shopper's lists. In the survey conducted by Greenfield, it also indicated that Blu-ray players were number one on the list of HD TV owners. The survey conducted by Zogby revealed similar results ranking Blu-ray players as second on the list after HD TV.
I indicated that there will be a strong correlation between HD TV adoption and Blu-ray, and these two studies definitely show this to be true. Blu-ray sales are starting to eat away at DVD sales, similarly to how DVD sales ate away at VHS sales over 10 years ago. According to Richard Greenfield, analyst for Pali Capital, indicated that results for 2008 are expected to show a decrease in DVD sales by 6%. This is in contrast to original predictions of flat sales for the year.
Greenfield also indicated that the adoption rate for Blu-ray is much faster than DVD was. He states, "Interestingly, two years into the standard DVD cycle, the DVD installed base was only 1.2 million and players were not nearly as inexpensive as $129 [BD players were] on Black Friday." As indicated before, Blu-ray sales are twice of that of DVDs at the same point in its life.
I predict that the Blu-ray adoption rate is actually much faster than twice that of DVDs when you consider out of the two years on the market, only one year was really spent as the sole format. The first year was spent battling it out with HD-DVD splintering the market in half while leaving many on the fence. This holiday definitely showed that consumers have made the jump to Blu-ray.
http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.cfm?ID=18670
and
Blu-ray Dominates Christmas Sales
Jan 5, 2009 by Scott Nichols
Back before Thanksgiving I predicted that Blu-ray sales would suffer during the holiday season due to the high cost of both the player and HDTVs combined with the current economic recession, among other reasons. But after seeing the report from the British Video Association declaring Blu-ray sales have risen almost 400 percent for the 2008 holiday season over the same period of time last year, it is clear that I was wrong.
Across the whole holiday season 3.7 million Blu-ray units were sold in Britain, and that doesn't include sales of Sony's Playstation 3 console, which also plays Blu-ray movies. A large contributing factor to the rise in Blu-ray sales was the release of the movies The Dark Knight and Mama Mia on Blu-ray. The Dark Knight sold almost 300,000 copies in its first few weeks, becoming the fastest selling Blu-ray title to date. Mama Mia was no slouch either selling 5.1 million copies by year-end.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/156327/blu_ray_holiday_sales.html?tk=rss
Jan 5, 2009 by Scott Nichols
Back before Thanksgiving I predicted that Blu-ray sales would suffer during the holiday season due to the high cost of both the player and HDTVs combined with the current economic recession, among other reasons. But after seeing the report from the British Video Association declaring Blu-ray sales have risen almost 400 percent for the 2008 holiday season over the same period of time last year, it is clear that I was wrong.
Across the whole holiday season 3.7 million Blu-ray units were sold in Britain, and that doesn't include sales of Sony's Playstation 3 console, which also plays Blu-ray movies. A large contributing factor to the rise in Blu-ray sales was the release of the movies The Dark Knight and Mama Mia on Blu-ray. The Dark Knight sold almost 300,000 copies in its first few weeks, becoming the fastest selling Blu-ray title to date. Mama Mia was no slouch either selling 5.1 million copies by year-end.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/156327/blu_ray_holiday_sales.html?tk=rss
Not bad for a stillborn technology !
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Yet again, the constant rationalization for a woeful lack of competitive cutting edge technology with the ludicrous claim that Apple is ahead of the curve instead of far behind what its high-end content creators needed last year.
Apple takes that long, and it will be in the Amiga graveyard where it will belong.
not last year, the high-end creators would have been using BluRay burners, media and HD video a good 5 years ago (at least).
not sure why apple hasnt incorporated it into the OS, its very odd..has to be something deeper
Yet again, the constant rationalization for a woeful lack of competitive cutting edge technology with the ludicrous claim that Apple is ahead of the curve instead of far behind what its high-end content creators needed last year.
Apple takes that long, and it will be in the Amiga graveyard where it will belong.
not last year, the high-end creators would have been using BluRay burners, media and HD video a good 5 years ago (at least).
not sure why apple hasnt incorporated it into the OS, its very odd..has to be something deeper
Possibly the High Definition Content Protection (HDCP), its a horrible DRM that wont allow non HDCP compliant hardware display movies, such as Apple's Cinema Display. Screens from Dell support it BUT you must change the screen to the equivalent 1080 resolution or lower. Its such a pain, a horrible horrible pain. And you know what, HDCP is not preventing piracy/ripping but encouraging it, because it has been circumvented. Only way to play a Blu-ray movie on a Mac or Linux system or non HDCP compliant windows system is to rip it to the hard drive first. And if you want to play it on your non HDCP compliant HD TV, you could burn it back to blu-ray without the protection.
Maybe Apple is waiting for them to drop HDCP, the DRM that makes everything a pain.
excellent points, jobs himself said "BluRay is a bag of hurt" (or something like that), the reasons you stated must be the answer.
i knew HDCP limited playback, but not on that level!! thats terrible, it sure does encourage ripping the movies (whether it be for archival purposes or illegal purposes).
apple dropped DRM on their mp3's in itunes, maybe they want Sony etc to drop the HDCP from BluRay, as hard as that may be to actually do. maybe they are developing some kind of software fix as we speak to decrypt it all??