Updates from New York Media Event

[Stella]

If your concerned about the performance of having the two different memory types: The PB can't use the DDR2 memory to its full potential due to its lame front bus speed.

Going from 512MB to 1Gig made a huge improvement in Tiger - performance wise. 512Mb in Tiger was very painful and disappointing.

Apart from having more memory for apps to play with of course, i don't know what noticeable performance improvements you'll see going from 1.5Ghz to 2Ghz.

Interesting. Do you all think it would be better (benefit/cost) to just keep the internal 512 and buy an additional 1GB stick (from newegg) that I can install myself OR buy two 1GB sticks, have an apple retailer install the one chip in the interal slot ($50) and put in the other chip in the user-accessible slot? Is the extra 512MB worth it? I don't think it would be worth the hassle but what do you all think (using Adobe CS, FCP, gaming).

 

[Frobozz]

Nice update

The PB upgrade is really nice. Incremental, but nice. Lower prices, faster and larger HD's (notice a 7200rpm 100 gb model and a 120gb 5400 model), longer running battery, faster RAM, more standard VRAM, and brighter and more dense screens. Also does closed-lid mode now. Kudos.

The PM update is HUGE for Apple, though. Let's face it-- up until now the PM line was pretty much a glorified iMac. It has some extra oomph and expansion slots but not a whole lot extra. Now you have so many new features aimed at workstation-like graphics, science, and music applications that it's too many to count here.... oh, who am I kidding. What an amazing update!

Faster processors plus a Quad configuration. (Clock speed be damned.)
4 PCI-E slots. Wow.
Workstation OpenGL cards (Quadro FX)
7800 GT card option (not available yet?!)
ECC or non-ECC DDR2 533 Ram (the ECC part makes this truly a workstation)
Increased RAM capacity (16gb)
Two gigabit ethernet ports standard!

... and the list goes on. Great update. Can't say enough good things.

 

[Kid Red]

So anyone care to compare the single dual-core 2.3ghz machine to something current? How does it compare to the dual 2.5ghz G5s for example?

Oh, and odds that these machines don't suffer from that bird chirping phenomenon?

 

[mongoos150]

If your concerned about the performance of having the two different memory types: The PB can't use the DDR2 memory to its full potential due to its lame front bus speed.

I understand that. My question still stands on which would be better performance/cost efficient, to buy two 1GB sticks for $95each on newegg and then an additional $50 to have an apple retailer install one of them at the internal slot, or just have the std. apple 512 internal and put in my own 1gb additionally.

 

[LagunaSol]

Cute, but your analogy is silly. For one thing, PowerMacs will have a bunch of empty slots available. You don't need to replace anything. You want Apple to add more standard RAM for you? OK fine, you'll now get four of your RAM slots filled with 256 MB DIMMs (which you'll have to throw out later if you want to add a lot more RAM), and pay $200 more for your PowerMac. Is that really a good idea? Would that really make you happy? The point is, I want to make those decisions myself, not have Apple make them for me (and charge me extra). If you really want Apple to give you more RAM and install it for you, you do, right now, have the option of paying them for the privilege.

OK, how about this (there are plenty of "silly" analogies to fit your argument): if you pay $80k for a car, do you expect to get floormats standard? Or should that be an upgrade?

No one is arguing that 1) you can't put RAM in a PowerMac yourself, or 2) that RAM purchased through Apple isn't horrendously overpriced, or even that 3) OS X won't boot on 256 megs. The point is if you're paying 2 grand for a PC in today's world, 512 megs of standard RAM is insulting (as is the entry-level-iMac-sized 160 GB hard drive, no?).

I want Apple to include more RAM as standard without charging me extra. Why does that not compute for you? I think that's a reasonable expectation in the world of $2k+ computers, wouldn't you think? Give me one slot filled with 1G of RAM, and 3 empty slots for me to put in whatever I want, wherever I can find it reasonably-priced.

Single processor (dual-core notwithstanding), 512MB RAM, 160GB hard drive, mediocre video card in the year-end 2005 A.D. = $1,999? There's nothing wrong with that??? We're not all used to San Francisco prices you know...

My dual G4 867 was $1,699 3 years ago. You'd think I could get a bigger bang for my buck for its replacement than what Apple is offering now in the PM line.

 

[williedigital]

for everyone talking about how "there is nothing close on the pc side", i'm not really sure if that's the case. You can get dual core p4's for under $250, a mb with all the stuff the pm one has (gig-e, pci-x, etc) for around $100. Lian-li look-alike g5 cases for $200. Video card to your needs. If those reports about the single p4's in the develope kits being faster than dual 2.0 g5's are even a little true, then that means a dual-core p4 would def be pushing the performance of anything under the quad, and not so far behind it really. All for well under $1000. Sure, you can't "really" run osx on it, but it's pretty rediculous the premium they are charging. Haven't those reports of 200% markups on other apple machines made you guys cringe? I only wonder what they are like for powermacs...

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

Those are supposed to be High Definition displays??

I'm so disappointed with Apple with this upgrade to the screen resolutions. Its still pretty poor. At the very least there should be the ability to custom spec a 15" or 17" powerbook to have a 1920x1200 screen. If I could buy a Dell 15.4" screened laptop over two years ago that has a resolution of 1920x1200 then I really don't see why Apple, who are meant to be HD this, HD that, cannot manage to make a laptop that can actually display 1080i HD video. You can get a Dell with a 1920x1200 resolution on a 15.4" screen for £738. Its a £94 upgrade over the default spec of 1280x800.

If Dell can do it, why can't Apple?? I really want to go the whole hog and switch over to Macs in every aspect next year when they go Intel but the low resolutions are putting me off.

 

[Stella]

I understand that. My question still stands on which would be better performance/cost efficient, to buy two 1GB sticks for $95each on newegg and then an additional $50 to have an apple retailer install one of them at the internal slot, or just have the std. apple 512 internal and put in my own 1gb additionally.

Performance / cost for your two options, I'm not sure.


Anyone?

 

[hulugu]

I agree with the OP. There should be a Mac in the sub-$1500 range that has some open expansion ports, upgradable GPU, and a free drive bay or two. Preferably it should be under $1000. They should ditch the iMac and sell something about the sane size/shape as the cube PM in two flavors that come in at $1000 and $1500 depending on the CPU, preinstalled RAM, GPU, and HDD size. Sell 20" ACDs at a discount if you buy them in a package.

You shouldn't have to drop $2000+ on a midrange desktop if you want to use your own/old display and be able to upgrade more than adding RAM or REPLACING the harddrive in a year or two.

You had me until you said ditching the iMac, that's just nuts. A low-end PowerMac would be great, but the iMac was Apple's saving grace in 1997 and continues to be one of its flagship machines.

 

[mongoos150]

In addition to my other question, I'm not sure whether to spring for the 100GB @ 7200 or go with the 120GB @ 5400. I have an external LaCie 300GB at 7200, It doesn't seem any faster than my PB's internal drive...

 

[Cali_Man]

I understand that. My question still stands on which would be better performance/cost efficient, to buy two 1GB sticks for $95each on newegg and then an additional $50 to have an apple retailer install one of them at the internal slot, or just have the std. apple 512 internal and put in my own 1gb additionally.

Perhaps I'm not understanding you correctly, but if you're buying anything other than the 12" powerbook, you can access the 'internal slot' as you call it yourself. Apple calls it the lower slot because it's directly underneath the upper slot, not because it's tucked away where only their technicians can get to it.

 

[lcde]

I am now a proud owner of the new 15" powerbook.

Thanks for the rumors. See you during Gen2 of the Intels

 

[Demon Hunter]

As for that new top-of-the-line PowerMac... "Quad Damage"!

I was really, really hoping for a 7448 and X700... or at the very least a 9700 with a BTO option of 256MB. Ah well.

The new hard drives and screens should be great for Photoshop.

 

[Soccertess]

Those are supposed to be High Definition displays??

I'm so disappointed with Apple with this upgrade to the screen resolutions. Its still pretty poor. At the very least there should be the ability to custom spec a 15" or 17" powerbook to have a 1920x1200 screen. If I could buy a Dell 15.4" screened laptop over two years ago that has a resolution of 1920x1200 then I really don't see why Apple, who are meant to be HD this, HD that, cannot manage to make a laptop that can actually display 1080i HD video. You can get a Dell with a 1920x1200 resolution on a 15.4" screen for £738. Its a £94 upgrade over the default spec of 1280x800.

If Dell can do it, why can't Apple?? I really want to go the whole hog and switch over to Macs in every aspect next year when they go Intel but the low resolutions are putting me off.

Couldn't say it better my self!!

 

[deanwaterman]

I was going to buy an UPDATED 12 PB but the specs on current model blow. Mr. Jobs let me Down hard this time. I'm blaming apple on this one and no one else. There are alot of things they could have updated that are not to do with IBM. In nine months Apple couldn’t even come up with ONE damn update for the 12 PB. MY KID was made IN 9 MONTHS!! I don’t know about you guys but I was hoping for a new video card, 7884, and something to blow me away. I got blown today, but it wasn’t from Apple as hoped. Also, Nano screen also busted last night.

sounds like you are having a bad day... I know what you mean about the 12" I got one last week, figuring they wouldn't do the update. Only good thing is the pricing got changed and Apple Store WILL refund the difference in the lower price. $1500 with SD is a great price point for the 12" But, I think i will use my ED discount and bump up to the 15".

you know, I only use the laptop for preaching... Maybe a iMac 17" or 20" and a cheap iBook to use for my keynote presentations... What do you guys think?

 

[shooterlv]

Wow, great deal.

Quad G5
16GB of ECC RAM
1 terabyte HD
Quadra Video card
dual 30" ACDs

All yours for only $22,000. I hope I can get the educational discount

Don't forget to add Wireless and blutooth for only $99

 

[tjwett]

am i just reading this system requirements list wrong or am i actually not able to use Aperture on my Dual 1.8 G5 w/GeForce FX 5200?!?

 

[mongoos150]

Perhaps I'm not understanding you correctly, but if you're buying anything other than the 12" powerbook, you can access the 'internal slot' as you call it yourself. Apple calls it the lower slot because it's directly underneath the upper slot, not because it's tucked away where only their technicians can get to it.

Wait - I can access BOTH chips??? *goes to find screwdriver*

 

[Whyren]

I'd definitely have to say Aperture is the biggest here. Everything else was bound to happen anyway, and didn't come with any much more than minor updating. Now, what shall happen next Wednesday?

Smaller Music Hardware->Consumer Photo/Video->Professional Photo/Video->???

 

[weg]

Too bad about the 12inch PB. The superdrive standard is nice, but it would have been nice to see a backlit keyboard. And this thing still doesn't comes with 512 sodered in, it has 256 and a removable 256. So the ram of the 12inch ibook is more upgradable than the 12inch PB.

Well, but by now it's pretty obvious that there won't be any updates to the 12" PowerBook anymore. So, I'm be able to claim that I own the fastest 12" PPC Powerbook ever made!

 

[JCT]

If the teaser they are showing us at apple (http://www.apple.com/aperture/) is true, this software is HUGE.

THIS COULD DO TO DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY WHAT FINAL CUT PRO DID FOR DIGITAL VIDEO!

As a professional photographer who's been doing digital for 5 or 6 years, I've got several key day to day concerns:

1. work flow issues
2. RAW handling capabilities
3. editing
4. backup of digital images

It seems that the move to non-destructive editing, built in backup (vaults) and a much improved work flow will make this thing rock.

I am very impressed with Apple to see this specific need and dive right in.

I agree 100% , it should be a true lightbox app with digital loupe, cataloging capabilities, some editing (great for those pics that are mostly "there" right out of the camera) -- I am thrilled with this app. If it does what it says maybe sitting down at the computer with a handful of flash cards filled with 20Meg RAW images won't make me want to cry....

JT

 

[eric_n_dfw]

Okay, just buy a Mac Mini then.

Well now that wouldn't be as powerful as an iMac now would it? (thus my comment about a desktop G5 machine)

 

[Deanster]

Just to clarify my earlier comments - I think the PowerMac upgrade is a huge win for true pro users who are buying on major technology budgets. If you're in scientific applications, pre-press, imaging, etc., the new PM's are seriously outstanding.

Similarly, the iMacs are great for consumer use.

As someone said a few posts ago, it's us pro-sumers who are left in a quandry. What I really need is all the basic speed I can buy for $1500 - I don't need super-capable video, I don't need 16GB of RAM, I don't need optical audio out, etc.

I just need a moderately fast-bus, fast-proc, fast-hd (1G bus, 2x2.0 proc, 7200HD would be fine) machine to support my 20" dell monitor and 17" Samsung monitor. I don't feel like I'm some barking mad user in the woods - I need more oomph than a slow-bus G4 can provide, and I don't need a screen.

I just need a moderately fast Mac CPU at a mid-range price, and they don't exist.

 

[sai_digitalle]

Kind of funny that the majority of apps will be faster on the older DP 2.7 G5 than the DP Dual Core 2.5 G5...

Who told you that ZildijanKX???

 

[Evangelion]

The single-processor dual cores look like they're probably slower than the machines they replace (or at least that any speed gain is due to the DDR2 memory)

What makes you think that dual-core is slower than two single-core CPU's? Besides, you get faster vid-cards, faster RAM, twice as much L2-cache, faster expansion-slots... What exactly makes you thik they will be slower?

and they no longer offer any video card with an ADC option, just a choice of a not-quite-top-of-the-range mainstream nVidia card (why a 6 series and not a 7 series?) and a "it costs HOW Much?" professional video card.

Uh, the Quadro IS 7-series! IIRC it's the fastest vid-card NVIDIA currently offers!

At least they kept the memory down to 512MB. I don't see why people keep complaining about this. Nobody actually uses them with 512MB, and nobody in possession of their marbles pays Apple's memory prices. You buy the thing with 512MB and on the same day order the amount of memory you really want from Crucial, where a 1GB DDR2 DIMM is around $140 now. When the Mac arrives you pull out the 512MB, and put the real memory in.

Or, Apple could offer 1GB of RAM by default, with no extra cost?