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Upgrade from Sierra to High Sierra now?

Lioness~ said:
Uhmmm, think I believe casperes who seem to be involved in the beta testning of Mojave over some guy who posts very random here concerning 32-bits software on Mojave.
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Thanks for the trust, but I'd just like to say the following:

macOS Mojave currently supports 32-bit apps. It shows a warning like HS, but supports 32-bit just fine.
In a tech session at WWDC, Apple said that "A future release" would kill off 32-bit. Now I took "A future release" as meaning 10.15 (They may have said next year's release actually, but still)
@SoCalReviews may either have more/different information, or may have taken that some quote differently. I don't want to seem like I am against him/her, cause we may well just be understanding the same words differently.

Oh, and yes, I do indeed test Mojave :). Fortunately all the code I've written has been 64-bit, hehe
 
casperes1996 said:
Thanks for the trust, but I'd just like to say the following:

macOS Mojave currently supports 32-bit apps. It shows a warning like HS, but supports 32-bit just fine.
In a tech session at WWDC, Apple said that "A future release" would kill off 32-bit. Now I took "A future release" as meaning 10.15 (They may have said next year's release actually, but still)
@SoCalReviews may either have more/different information, or may have taken that some quote differently. I don't want to seem like I am against him/her, cause we may well just be understanding the same words differently.

Oh, and yes, I do indeed test Mojave :). Fortunately all the code I've written has been 64-bit, hehe
Click to expand...

Ok, would be good to save an installtion of HS on another disk or so before upgrading to Mojave then....

Ah well, I’m sure we will hear more precise information about this as it gets closer to Mojave, sharp version.
I’m most certainly not the only one who wants to have accurate information about this, who have some 32-bits programs.
 
casperes1996 said:
Personally, I always archive the installers for OS X/macOS systems so I can always make a bootable flash drive with that OS later on if I need it
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Me too. I have saved them all way back to Lion. Wonder why I didn’t save the earlier, haha. Know I had Panther ;)
Not that I think I need to travel that far back in time.
But it’s good to keep the installers for awhile.

Was thinking rather have a functional clone with old HFS+ file system and knowing it works with 32-bits too. Before installing and making the shift to Mojave.
This is really the biggest change since we left Classic (damnit) & embraced OSX. :)
 
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Lioness~ said:
Uhmmm, think I believe casperes who seem to be involved in the beta testning of Mojave over some guy who posts very random here concerning 32-bits software on Mojave.
But I agree, it'a better to be on HS then Sierra if you would stay there and not upgrade to Mojave and the new APFS filesystem.
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Believe whoever you want but I actually believe Apple and it's developers which is where I got the information I posted. The 32bit application warning was posted as part of an on screen pop up notice right after I upgraded my Mac Mini mid-2011 from Sierra 10.12.6 to High Sierra 10.13.5... When I opened an MS Office 2011 which is a 32bit application there was a pop up notification appearing to be included as part of the HS 10.13.5 update saying 32bit support would soon be dropped in future MacOS releases and the notification advised me to look to upgrading to 64bit applications if available. This notification appeared to be a general MacOS notification and not simply a MS Office update notification.

This doesn't necessarily mean the first releases of 10.14 Mojave would not support 32bit applications but unless Apple is lying about the information in their own notifications then I would assume it means support could likely be dropped in any future 10.14.x release thereafter... That is why I used the term "rolling the dice" in my post relating to future support.
 
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casperes1996 said:
Thanks for the trust, but I'd just like to say the following:

macOS Mojave currently supports 32-bit apps. It shows a warning like HS, but supports 32-bit just fine.
In a tech session at WWDC, Apple said that "A future release" would kill off 32-bit. Now I took "A future release" as meaning 10.15 (They may have said next year's release actually, but still)
@SoCalReviews may either have more/different information, or may have taken that some quote differently. I don't want to seem like I am against him/her, cause we may well just be understanding the same words differently.

Oh, and yes, I do indeed test Mojave :). Fortunately all the code I've written has been 64-bit, hehe
Click to expand...

Yes, that is correct. HS had a pop up notification warning about 32bit support being dropped in future MacOS releases. That I can verify as being from Apple's own notification. I didn't mention another part because it came from other sources online that discussed future MacOS releases dropping 32bit support. This has actually been known by many developers since before High Sierra was released. Some thought 32bit support would be dropped during the HS releases but now it looks like 32bit support will be dropped sometime during the Mojave releases.... that is... unless Apple pushes the date for dropping 32bit support farther out.
[doublepost=1529462664][/doublepost]
chrfr said:
No, 10.14.x will support 32-bit applications. It will be the last version of macOS to do so.
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/06/05/mojave-last-macos-release-to-support-32-bit-apps/
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That's fine. If MacRumors 6/5/2018 info is correct then it looks like Apple is giving us a year and a half advanced warning with their pop up notice in HS. You'd think Apple would have just waited for Mojave to give us pop up notice warnings. Again that's why I posted "rolling the dice". It doesn't mean your 32bit applications will all work. The application developers have been dropping 32bit support for their own applications as well. Just as what happened with HS 10.13.... many 32bit applications may stop working with Mojave due to lack of MacOS 10.14.x support. As I just posted.... Apple has been pushing the date out for dropping 32bit support since before High Sierra. Just like the dates for rolling out "full" APFS support has been changed multiple times. You really can't depend fully on what the publications say (or what Apple says) until it happens.
 
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Lioness~ said:
This is really the biggest change since we left Classic (damnit) & embraced OSX. :)
Click to expand...

I would compare it more to PPC->Intel, since it has to do with CPUArch support. But yeah, it's a big one. Though I honestly think most people won't really notice.

SoCalReviews said:
Yes, that is correct. HS had a pop up notification warning about 32bit support being dropped in future MacOS releases. That I can verify as being from Apple's own notification. I didn't mention another part because it came from other sources online that discussed future MacOS releases dropping 32bit support. This has actually been known by many developers since before High Sierra was released. Some thought 32bit support would be dropped during the HS releases but now it looks like 32bit support will be dropped sometime during the Mojave releases.... that is... unless Apple pushes the date for dropping 32bit support farther out.
Click to expand...

Hold on; Are you basing your info off of that pop-up? Cause "Future releases" could be anything from 10.14 to 10.90.
When I said Mojave would work with 32-bit and it would be dropped in 10.15 that was from the Apple Developer Portal's WWDC Tech Session on Cocoa. I can't remember the exact quote, but I urge anyone really curious to watch "What's new in Cocoa" from WWDC 2018. It's a long talk but somewhere in it is the quote mentioning the dropping of 32-bit frameworks in "Next year's release" if I recall correctly. And a "release" to me, means a full . release, and not a minor update.
 
Nubben said:
Hi all,

Would there be any benefit of upgrading to High Sierra now rather than wait until Mojave comes out?

I have always been a bit concerned with this new file system of Apple's and how it would affect my iMac and also my external Thunderbolt drives.

Many thanks

Nubben
Click to expand...
No don't do it....No don't do it...No don't do it...No don't do it...No don't do it...No don't do it...No don't do it...No don't do it...No don't do it...
 
casperes1996 said:
I would compare it more to PPC->Intel, since it has to do with CPUArch support. But yeah, it's a big one. Though I honestly think most people won't really notice.
Click to expand...
You are probably not old enough to been around at the Classic time, were you? ;)
PPC to Intel wasn't that big transition, not in my experience. Hardly noticed.
And maybe you're right, once we upgraded we won't notice this either.
Just been many fail stories....
 
Lioness~ said:
You are probably not old enough to been around at the Classic time, were you? ;)
PPC to Intel wasn't that big transition, not in my experience. Hardly noticed.
And maybe you're right, once we upgraded we won't notice this either.
Just been many fail stories....
Click to expand...


Well, I was around, but hardly computer knowledgable, since I was a child ;). I do have a Mac running OS 9 still to this day though.

Irregardless of all that, you may not really have noticed the shift to Intel, as Rosetta made it pretty smooth. But in a way that's how we've been doing it for ages now. our processors are 64-bit, our kernel is 64-bit. Running 32-bit software, on a chip-level, is converted a bit like what Rosetta did for PPC software on Intel chips. Not at all the same, since no software translation is done, but the hardware does need to adapt to it being 32-bit code. The Fundamentals of macOS stay the same, unlike the jump from Classic to OS X. 95% if not more of what you do is likely to not be affected at all. That sounds more like PPC -> Intel to me than it does Classic to OS X.
 
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Nubben said:
Hi all,

Would there be any benefit of upgrading to High Sierra now rather than wait until Mojave comes out?

I have always been a bit concerned with this new file system of Apple's and how it would affect my iMac and also my external Thunderbolt drives.

Many thanks

Nubben
Click to expand...

If your iMac is going to be compatible with Mojave (which is to say that it is a Late 2012 or newer), then I'd say keep on rolling on Sierra and then when you get to the point where you are ready to make the jump to Mojave, back up your existing Sierra system (Time Machine, a cloning mechanism, other, or all of the above) and then do a clean installation.

If your iMac's boot volume runs from an SSD, I'd imagine you'll have nothing to worry about as any APFS bugs that pertain to SSDs specifically have had a year to present themselves and be ironed out (though I recognize that might be a bit optimistic of an appraisal).

If you're rocking a hard drive or a Fusion drive, I'd still install Mojave and before committing to it, do testing to ensure stability and then go from there. If you have issues, then you can still stick with Sierra for another year as it will still get security updates for another year.

Personally, my experience with High Sierra was so bad that it became the first version of Mac OS X/OS X/macOS that I, as a friendly neighborhood Mac guru recommended my friends and family against upgrading to. For people with Macs that are now capped at High Sierra, I might wait until just prior to Mojave's launch to get it so that it installs directly to 10.13.final lest they be dealing with any bugs that still exist in the current version. Though, I suppose that advice probably depends on the necessity to be current versus merely being secure.
 
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Seems like a solid advice. I'll be updating my MBP 2011 to HS somewhere around Mojave's launch (as it won't run Mojave) and enjoy to more years of security updates.
 
My intention was to make a clean install of High Sierra and put back files through CCC.
Now I missed that, so it became an upgrade of HS.
So it is when postponing an upgrade for so long. o_O
Everything seemed to work out fine though. HS is snappier.

There’s no reason why I should make that delete and redo the installation, is it?

Better to wait and do that clean install when installing Mojave in a few months rather?
Or what serves best when we'll change the file system?
 
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If it's all working fine I would save the hassle from doing re-installation. What kind of machine are you running? With or without ssd and amount of RAM?
 
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If it is working fine now, don't worry about it. You can clean install Mojave, but I usually wait until a new OS is .3 or .4 before installing on my main drive. I will test the .3 version on an new external drive, then if no problems, update that with the .4 version and clone it over to my main drive. That way the external becomes my new cloned system. I'm a big fan of keeping clones of older OSs, especially now when support for 32 bit apps will soon disappear.
 
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Thanks guys :)

baas said:
If it's all working fine I would save the hassle from doing re-installation. What kind of machine are you running? With or without ssd and amount of RAM?
Click to expand...
iMac 27" no SSD 32GB Ram. I’ll wait. Just had intended to do a clean install. HS was no big deal, at least not now. Heard so much scare about HS and fusion drives :eek:

MSastre said:
If it is working fine now, don't worry about it. You can clean install Mojave, but I usually wait until a new OS is .3 or .4 before installing on my main drive. I will test the .3 version on an new external drive, then if no problems, update that with the .4 version and clone it over to my main drive. That way the external becomes my new cloned system. I'm a big fan of keeping clones of older OSs, especially now when support for 32 bit apps will soon disappear.
Click to expand...

Good advice. I will wait too with Mojave. Now I am at least on newest system.
Mojave will convert the filesystem on fusiondrives, so it better be tested enough.
I love clones too and CCC. But installing from start on another disk, haven’t done. Might try it.
Will that convert the file system on that disk for Mojave into the new file system AFPS too?

Yes, plan also to keep a HS boot for the 32-bits apps that won’t be upgraded, or that I won’t upgrade. At least not directly.
 
Took the plunge. Noticeably sped up my 2011 iMac with an SSD. Had a few quirks on my 2016 MB, but they seem to have gone after a restart. Not noticeably faster that one though.

No bugs so far.
 
Good to hear, seems like most bugs are ironed out. I will wait for .6 anyway and see what that's like just to be sure.
 
casperes1996 said:
I would compare it more to PPC->Intel, since it has to do with CPUArch support. But yeah, it's a big one. Though I honestly think most people won't really notice.



Hold on; Are you basing your info off of that pop-up? Cause "Future releases" could be anything from 10.14 to 10.90.
When I said Mojave would work with 32-bit and it would be dropped in 10.15 that was from the Apple Developer Portal's WWDC Tech Session on Cocoa. I can't remember the exact quote, but I urge anyone really curious to watch "What's new in Cocoa" from WWDC 2018. It's a long talk but somewhere in it is the quote mentioning the dropping of 32-bit frameworks in "Next year's release" if I recall correctly. And a "release" to me, means a full . release, and not a minor update.
Click to expand...
No, I don't just rely the MacOS popup saying 32bit support would be dropped in the future. That was the first official notice that I could be sure came from Apple since it was an MacOS notification. I have been reading the same thing in Mac related publications since the later releases of Sierra. I read a lot more than just MacRumors and much more than about Macs. I try stay up to date on all MS Windows information as well (EOL for OS and application support for XP, 7, 8, 10 releases, etc.).

The thing that is certain about the Apple information you read from the publications is that if you think you can know the exact time and dates of hardware or software feature changes you are bound to be wrong. A good recent example just look at what has been reported for the past year regarding the next update to the Mac Pro hardware.
 
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Nubben said:
Have an iMac with Sierra and three Western Digital enclosures with two drives in each connected to the iMac with thunderbolt. No raid or anything - justs separate drives.
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Whatever you do, if you upgrade to High Sierra, do NOT right-click your external drives and choose "encrypt" in the Finder, especially for a Time Machine drive. It will silently convert the drive to APFS, which does not work with Time Machine at all. The encryption process (done this way, anyway) also seemed to hang so badly on another external drive that I had to unmount and eventually reformat it.

I read a few other reports of people going through the same thing as me. I was lucky and didn't lose any data, just some Time Machine backups. But that encryption hang was really bad and made me quite mistrustful of the whole process.
 
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Lioness~ said:
My intention was to make a clean install of High Sierra and put back files through CCC.
Now I missed that, so it became an upgrade of HS.
So it is when postponing an upgrade for so long. o_O
Everything seemed to work out fine though. HS is snappier.

There’s no reason why I should make that delete and redo the installation, is it?

Better to wait and do that clean install when installing Mojave in a few months rather?
Or what serves best when we'll change the file system?
Click to expand...

I'm a huge fan of clean installations for the 10.x jumps. And yeah, CCC is gonna choke on APFS unless you're using a version that supports it.
 
Yebubbleman said:
I'm a huge fan of clean installations for the 10.x jumps. And yeah, CCC is gonna choke on APFS unless you're using a version that supports it.
Click to expand...
I like the clean installations too. Usually do them with bigger shifts. Don't have APFS on my iMac with fusiondrive. That's the reason why I waited. Heard it had been some troubles for some.
Have the latest CCC 5.xx, and it should be able to copy the APFS, which I don't need, yet.
Will be ready for Mojave.
 
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