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Upgrade G4 Cube

LightBulbFun said:
As @bunnspecial says thats is a very good option

it should work OOB without any firmware modifications

just make sure your fully updated to the latest 4.1.9 BootROM

you WILL need to install a base fan when using that CPU however

(but that's true for any CPU you install)
Click to expand...
bunnspecial said:
That actually would be a great choice. It looks like a faster version of the 800mhz Sonnet I have in one of mine.

It SHOULD work with the stock heat sink, but I would not want to run it without a base fan.
Click to expand...
I have bought the Sonnet board and will buy a 8 cm fan
I have been looking at the install video for a Powerlogicboard (https://eshop.macsales.com/installvideos/powermac_g4_cube_acc_powerforce/), where they also refer to updating the firmware to version 4.1.9. Where can I find documentation on how to do this?
Further in the video, during installation, they talk about connecting the VRM bypass wiring for the logic and graphics board. Is this bypass wiring only needed for the Powerlogic (7447/7457) board or would I need this as well for the Sonnet board.
 
LightBulbFun said:
you have to be running OS 9 to install it https://udcf.gla.ac.uk/~gwm1h/macos9/

https://udcf.gla.ac.uk/~gwm1h/macos9/G4_Cube_FWUpdate_4.1.9.smi.hqx

(unless you know OpenFirmware but thats another ball game entirely)

for the sonnet CPU you have you dont have to worry about any sort of VRAM bypass etc
Click to expand...
I am running 10.4.6 Tiger. Would this mean I already have the update 4.1.9 or do I need to downgrade to OS 9 in order install the update 4.1.9
I am now installing TenFourFox in orde to get into the internet as other browser do not work. If I would need to go back to OS 9 I would probably need to install Grozilla or whatever that was called
 
Wouter3 said:
I am running 10.4.6 Tiger. Would this mean I already have the update 4.1.9 or do I need to downgrade to OS 9 in order install the update 4.1.9
I am now installing TenFourFox in orde to get into the internet as other browser do not work. If I would need to go back to OS 9 I would probably need to install Grozilla or whatever that was called
Click to expand...

you really should update to 10.4.11 via software update

as for your BootROM version, what does system profiler report it as?

installing OS X does not automatically update your BootROM

if it does need updating to 4.1.9 then you will have to install OS 9.x
 
LightBulbFun said:
you really should update to 10.4.11 via software update

as for your BootROM version, what does system profiler report it as?

installing OS X does not automatically update your BootROM

if it does need updating to 4.1.9 then you will have to install OS 9.x
Click to expand...
I have tried to upgrade to 10.4.11 but Mac OS crashes halfway installation and I need to reboot and start all over. I tried again by installing Java first and then the OS update, but it crashed again. I don't know why because I have tried it a week ago and it worked OK. Yesterday I was not able to boot up normally so I installed Tiger again. But now I am trying to get TenFourFox running.

Where do I find the version of the BooTROM? Under Hardware I can see Startup ROM version 3.3.2f1
 
Wouter3 said:
I have tried to upgrade to 10.4.11 but Mac OS crashes halfway installation and I need to reboot and start all over. I tried again by installing Java first and then the OS update, but it crashed again. I don't know why because I have tried it a week ago and it worked OK. Yesterday I was not able to boot up normally so I installed Tiger again. But now I am trying to get TenFourFox running.

Where do I find the version of the BooTROM? Under Hardware I can see Startup ROM version 3.3.2f1
Click to expand...
I have run the installer for TenFourFox7400 and after installation it tells me that TenFourFox7400 cannot be used with this version of OS X. So I will try to update again to 10.4.11, although I will need to install OS 9.X afterwards. How do I do that? I do not have an original OS 9.x install disk and copied versions cannot be read by my ODD.
I am now going to run the software update to OS 10.4.11. Keep your fingers crossed.
[doublepost=1565884306][/doublepost]
Wouter3 said:
I have run the installer for TenFourFox7400 and after installation it tells me that TenFourFox7400 cannot be used with this version of OS X. So I will try to update again to 10.4.11, although I will need to install OS 9.X afterwards. How do I do that? I do not have an original OS 9.x install disk and copied versions cannot be read by my ODD.
I am now going to run the software update to OS 10.4.11. Keep your fingers crossed.
Click to expand...
It now stops with downloading the combined Mac OS X update 10.4.11 as it cannot unpack it. I will now try to do the J2SE 5.0 Release 4 update first.
 
LightBulbFun said:
you have to be running OS 9 to install it https://udcf.gla.ac.uk/~gwm1h/macos9/

https://udcf.gla.ac.uk/~gwm1h/macos9/G4_Cube_FWUpdate_4.1.9.smi.hqx

(unless you know OpenFirmware but thats another ball game entirely)

for the sonnet CPU you have you dont have to worry about any sort of VRAM bypass etc
Click to expand...
I finally managed to get 10.4.11 installed, so I can run TenFourfox. I typed the link above into the browser but get a return message "Server not Found". Firefox can't find the server at udcf. I checked the url sereral times but it cannot find it. Would there be a another way to get there? And How do I install Mac OS 9.x under Mac OS 10.4.11?
 
Wouter3 said:
I finally managed to get 10.4.11 installed, so I can run TenFourfox. I typed the link above into the browser but get a return message "Server not Found". Firefox can't find the server at udcf. I checked the url sereral times but it cannot find it. Would there be a another way to get there?
Click to expand...

The links work fine here (Firefox 68).
 
Wouter3 said:
I finally managed to get 10.4.11 installed, so I can run TenFourfox. I typed the link above into the browser but get a return message "Server not Found". Firefox can't find the server at udcf. I checked the url sereral times but it cannot find it. Would there be a another way to get there? And How do I install Mac OS 9.x under Mac OS 10.4.11?
Click to expand...

if you formatted the drive with OS 9 drivers then you can just drag a valid Mac OS 9 installation onto the root of your hard drive and use start up disk to boot into it

heres the direct apple download link for the PowerMac G4 Cube 4.1.9 BootROM firmware update https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1285?locale=en_US

but what does system profiler say your boot rom version is?
 
LightBulbFun said:
if you formatted the drive with OS 9 drivers then you can just drag a valid Mac OS 9 installation onto the root of your hard drive and use start up disk to boot into it

heres the direct apple download link for the PowerMac G4 Cube 4.1.9 BootROM firmware update https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1285?locale=en_US

but what does system profiler say your boot rom version is?
Click to expand...
My BootROM version is 3.3.2f1, so that needs to be updated. Via you link I found the 4.1.9.bin file, so that should be OK.
When I bought the Cube, it ran OS X 10.2, but when I started Classilla, it started with OS 9.x. As at one point I could not boot the system normally I installed Mac OS Tiger (10.4.11) which is now the OS. I assume there is no more Mac OS 9.x on the system.
So I need to buy a Mac OS 9. install CD/DVD, Pull out my harddrive and install an empty one and install version OS 9.x on it. Then I perform the procedure as described in your link above. When finished I reinstall my harddrive with Mac OS 10 and can then install the CPU upgrade.
Another option might have been to install Mac OS 9 on another partition of my current disk, but I assume that is not possible anymore because my current disk has one partition only.
On eBay I find lots of Mac OS 9 CDs, but they are install/restore disks and I need the original product key and license, so this will not work for a fresh installation. On eBay I found one original Mac 9 install disk which costs with transportation around $75. A pretty expensive investment for an OS that I will not use anymore afterwards.
Would you know of someone from whom I can borrow the mac OS 9. disk so I can just perform this procedure?
 
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LightBulbFun said:
As @bunnspecial says thats is a very good option

it should work OOB without any firmware modifications

just make sure your fully updated to the latest 4.1.9 BootROM

you WILL need to install a base fan when using that CPU however

(but that's true for any CPU you install)
Click to expand...
I installed the new CPU and it works great. I have some problems with the fan however. I ordered a 8 cm fan but that is always 2.5 cm thick and therefore doesn't fit the Cube. I had 5 cm fan that I installed but it has a 3 pins plug which I could not get into the connector at the VRM. So I soldered 2 wires on the VRM to get the 12 V. I am running the little fan at the lower speed to reduce the noice a little. Hope it doesn't get too warm.

Is there any software around for the G4 to check the processor temperature?
 
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I have always used 25mm thick 80mm fans-the fan bracket needs a bit of modification(just bending with needle nose pliers) but they slot in without any major disassembly. I've actually advocated 25cm fans for as long as I've been playing with Cubes, as typically they are slower and quieter moving the same volume of air as a 15cm fan(the design size for Cubes). I have a couple with 15cm fans not installed by me, and they are noticeably louder.

The thermal diode in 7400/7450 series CPUs is not known to be terribly accurate. There are a few programs I've used from Sonnet and Powerlogix that work in OS 9(I don't recall what they're called, but a search on Macintosh Garden should turn them up) but they'll often read ludicrous values(often sub-freezing temperatures IIRC). I suspect that's why Apple didn't make it easy to read. You CAN get some value from the numbers by tracking what is "normal" and just treating it as an arbitrary unit for CPU temperature that will change somewhat when the temperature is higher or lower than normal. It's not like using iStat Menus on my Mac Pro or MacBook Pro, where there are about 3 dozen sensors to read.

The MDD is a bit of a different situation-there IS a diode on the CPU card that Hardware Monitor can read
 
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bunnspecial said:
I have always used 25mm thick 80mm fans-the fan bracket needs a bit of modification(just bending with needle nose pliers) but they slot in without any major disassembly. I've actually advocated 25cm fans for as long as I've been playing with Cubes, as typically they are slower and quieter moving the same volume of air as a 15cm fan(the design size for Cubes). I have a couple with 15cm fans not installed by me, and they are noticeably louder.

The thermal diode in 7400/7450 series CPUs is not known to be terribly accurate. There are a few programs I've used from Sonnet and Powerlogix that work in OS 9(I don't recall what they're called, but a search on Macintosh Garden should turn them up) but they'll often read ludicrous values(often sub-freezing temperatures IIRC). I suspect that's why Apple didn't make it easy to read. You CAN get some value from the numbers by tracking what is "normal" and just treating it as an arbitrary unit for CPU temperature that will change somewhat when the temperature is higher or lower than normal. It's not like using iStat Menus on my Mac Pro or MacBook Pro, where there are about 3 dozen sensors to read.

The MDD is a bit of a different situation-there IS a diode on the CPU card that Hardware Monitor can read
Click to expand...
I have a quiet 80 mm fan, which I could install by bending the screw slots as you indicated.
However, I have now all of a sudden another problems that needs to be sorted. Yesterday I switched off the Cube in normal working order and this morning it will not start anymore. I can see a green LED light on the VRM, but when I touch the powerbutton, a red LED comes on on the motherboard and nothing happens. So I am afraid that the CPU is dead. It was OK when I switched it off. I will first place the original CPU board back and see if indeed the Sonnet CPU is gone.
I cannot imagine that my 12 volt bypass on the VRM, to power the little fan, could have caused a VRM problem for the motherboard. First order some heat paste so I can replace the CPU board :-(
 
Wouter3 said:
I have a quiet 80 mm fan, which I could install by bending the screw slots as you indicated.
However, I have now all of a sudden another problems that needs to be sorted. Yesterday I switched off the Cube in normal working order and this morning it will not start anymore. I can see a green LED light on the VRM, but when I touch the powerbutton, a red LED comes on on the motherboard and nothing happens. So I am afraid that the CPU is dead. It was OK when I switched it off. I will first place the original CPU board back and see if indeed the Sonnet CPU is gone.
I cannot imagine that my 12 volt bypass on the VRM, to power the little fan, could have caused a VRM problem for the motherboard. First order some heat paste so I can replace the CPU board :-(
Click to expand...
His famous last words.
IMG_0320.jpg

[doublepost=1566808013][/doublepost]This is a detail of my VRM.

Who knows where to get another VRM for my Cube?

Next problem obviously would be where to get 12 V to power the cooling fan.
 
Wouter3 said:
His famous last words.
View attachment 854729
[doublepost=1566808013][/doublepost]This is a detail of my VRM.

Who knows where to get another VRM for my Cube?

Next problem obviously would be where to get 12 V to power the cooling fan.
Click to expand...
Those blown transistors (Si4840DY) can be replaced, I think there are even more modern versions of the same thing that can handle more power and there are also empty pads where you can put another one. But from what I heard if the VRM dies it takes the logic board with it, so even if you fix the VRM chances are the logic board is gone too. There is some guy in Japan who builds custom Cube VRMs but they are expensive.
 
Wouter3 said:
His famous last words.
View attachment 854729
[doublepost=1566808013][/doublepost]This is a detail of my VRM.

Who knows where to get another VRM for my Cube?

Next problem obviously would be where to get 12 V to power the cooling fan.
Click to expand...

Looks like they were overloaded by something, but they could've failed due to old age.
Check if they have failed open (high or infinite resistance between drain and source pins) or short (low or virtually no resistance between drain and source)
If they're open, there's a high chance the components down the chain have survived.
If they're shorted... Well, full supply voltage straight into the CPU and the logic board is not a good thing, to put it mildly.
 
jmilan0302 said:
Those blown transistors (Si4840DY) can be replaced, I think there are even more modern versions of the same thing that can handle more power and there are also empty pads where you can put another one. But from what I heard if the VRM dies it takes the logic board with it, so even if you fix the VRM chances are the logic board is gone too. There is some guy in Japan who builds custom Cube VRMs but they are expensive.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't know what has happened. While I was using the Cube, the screen went blank several times at random and I heard the disk go into sleep mode. As soon as I touched the keyboard or mouse, it came back again. I switched off the machine, but left the power cable attached. After half an hour I saw some red light blinking inside, so I disconnected the power cable. Hours later I tried to restart, but all was dead. The overloading could have been the 1GHz Sonnet CPU and the little fan I had attached to the VRM. Just repairing would probably give problems again with the more powerful CPU.

I would be most interested to buy a custom Cube VRM that would allow the 1 GHz CPU to run without a problem and support possibly in the future a more performing Graphics card.
The logic board, if no longer working could be bought from eBay for a reasonable price.
Would any of you know the contact where to get these custom Cube VRMs?
[doublepost=1566845419][/doublepost]
Fami7455 said:
Looks like they were overloaded by something, but they could've failed due to old age.
Check if they have failed open (high or infinite resistance between drain and source pins) or short (low or virtually no resistance between drain and source)
If they're open, there's a high chance the components down the chain have survived.
If they're shorted... Well, full supply voltage straight into the CPU and the logic board is not a good thing, to put it mildly.
Click to expand...
What are the drain and source pins of the above component 07?
 
Wouter3 said:
Would any of you know the contact where to get these custom Cube VRMs?
Click to expand...
There have been two of them:

The "famous" Giga-C, which is the one i was even some years from now very lucky to get my hands on.

giga_c.jpg


And the one from Japan mentioned earlyer in the thread. But (sad news for you) chances that somebody who ownes one of them is willing to sell it should be close to zero these days. They are collectors items and should be very rare out there.
 
flyproductions said:
There have been two of them:

The "famous" Giga-C, which is the one i was even some years from now very lucky to get my hands on.

giga_c.jpg


And the one from Japan mentioned earlyer in the thread. But (sad news for you) chances that somebody who ownes one of them is willing to sell it should be close to zero these days. They are collectors items and should be very rare out there.
Click to expand...
I think the Artmix (the one I mentioned earlier) VRM is still being made. It does cost $150 though... Might as well just try repairing the Cube VRM and adding another 2 MOSFETs to it.
 
jmilan0302 said:
I think the Artmix (the one I mentioned earlier) VRM is still being made. It does cost $150 though... Might as well just try repairing the Cube VRM and adding another 2 MOSFETs to it.
Click to expand...
If the Artmix VRM would support my 1GHz CPU it might be a good option to pay $150. I am looking into letting my old VRM be repaired, but then still my problem exists that I would easily overheat. Where would be Artmix VRMs be for sale?
 
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