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Upgrading old Mac Pro to 8800 GT graphics?

I would even be happy with being able to keep the 8800 GT and the 7300 in at the same time and not swapping them out...thats the biggest reason I didn't get a new card.

So technically if one had a mac pro with leopard, you could start up but would be black until you got into osx?
 
we can't-I just used the store chat and while the card and slot are backwarsd compatible, the card slot that is used by the previous mac pro is not frontwards compatible-so it appears we are SOL
 
Um, if the card is backward compatible then we are not SOL. Not sure where you got a slot needing to be "forward" compatible to use a card that is backward compatible with it.
 
thats BS.

Unless this card isn't a typical 8800GT.

I am running one in my MacPro now when I boot into windows. I've been wanting to put the one I have into a dedicated zBrush PC and then get this one for the MacPro with the special firmware.

If they have made this card not compatible with the current systems they are shooting themselves in the foot.

It's a 16 lane card just the same as the x1900.
 
here is the transcript

here is a breif summary

i, my name is Wanda. Welcome to Apple!
#

Wanda: Good afternoon.
#

You: can the 8800GT be purchased for use with the previous Mac Pros? If so how much is it to buy the 8800 on its own
#



Wanda: I'm happy to assist you. The 8800GT works in the PCI Express 2.0 slot. The previous generation Mac Pros have the PCI 1.0 slot, so it will not work in that slot.
#

You: the 2.0 is not backwards compatible?
#

Wanda: 2.0 is backwards compatible, but 1.0 is not frontwards compatible. The prevoius Mac Pro has the 1.0 slot

now that i read this again-this does not make any sense at all-
 
Wanda is a retard.

The guy I just spoke too says they don't even know yet.

I'm not gonna kill everyone at Apple until things calm down a bit and some light is shed on the subject.
 
From a PC Forum with a post about 8800GT

"yea it works here, my issues are not related to the video card at all >.> so far it's been my memory.

i've already pointed out that anything designed for full compliance with pci-e 2.0 must be fully compliant for 1.1 and 1.0a. the video cards BIOS does NOT determinewhat type of slot it will work in.

there are specific chipsets which wont run the new cards like VIA and some others but i forget them. Intel and AMD native chipsets should be fine tho."

I don't see this being a problem The PC I run my 8800Gt in is 1.0 PCI-E as well. And it blazes.
 
technocoy said:
"yea it works here, my issues are not related to the video card at all >.> so far it's been my memory.

i've already pointed out that anything designed for full compliance with pci-e 2.0 must be fully compliant for 1.1 and 1.0a. the video cards BIOS does NOT determinewhat type of slot it will work in.

there are specific chipsets which wont run the new cards like VIA and some others but i forget them. Intel and AMD native chipsets should be fine tho."

I don't see this being a problem The PC I run my 8800Gt in is 1.0 PCI-E as well. And it blazes.
Click to expand...


I agree with this. I have a friend who has an asrock motherboard with a via chipset on it and I flashed his card to a gen1 mode and the card even worked fine in the via chipset board. This card should make the current mac pro's quite the gaming boxes.
 
technocoy said:
Wanda is a retard.

The guy I just spoke too says they don't even know yet.

I'm not gonna kill everyone at Apple until things calm down a bit and some light is shed on the subject.
Click to expand...

Hah. You and me both.

Some hope...
PCIe 2.0 cards are backwards compatible with PCIe 1.1 and 1.0 from what I've found.
From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express
PCIe 2.0 is completely backwards compatible with PCIe v1.x. Graphic cards and motherboards designed for v2.0 will be able to work with v1.1 and v1.0, and vice versa.
Click to expand...

The Mac Pro supposedly has PCIe 1.1.
From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro
For internal expansion the Mac Pro has four PCI Express (PCIe) 1.1 expansion slots, providing them with up to 300 W of power in total.
Click to expand...

Now the not so good... and here is where I am starting to lose hope.

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_8
Shortly after the release, an incompatibility issue with older PCI Express 1.0a motherboards was unmasked. When using the PCI Express 2.0 compliant 8800GT in motherboards with PCI Express 1.0a slots, the card would not produce any display image, but the computer would often boot (with the fan spinning at a constant 100%). Some mainboard (Motherboard) chipsets had a workaround, which was to re-flash the graphics card's bios with an older GEN1 BIOS (which effectively made it into a PCI Express 1.0 card, not being able to utilize the PCIE 2.0 functions. but since the card itself could not even utilize the full capacity of the regular PCIE 1.0 slots, there was no noticeable performance reduction)
Click to expand...
<... skip ahead... >
When it was revealed that the G92 8800GT and 8800GTS 512Mb were going to be designed with PCI Express 2.0 connections, NVIDIA claimed that all cards would have full Backwards-Compatibility, but they completely failed to mentioned that this was only true for PCI Express 1.1 motherboards.
Click to expand...


This sort of holds consistent from what I remember reading about users trying to get 8800's working in Mac Pro's. They didn't work, from what I recall. Not even on the windows side. That makes me wonder if the Mac Pro truly has 1.1 PCIe or if it's 1.0. If it's 1.0, and Apple didn't fix the issue that other card manufacturers found, we may still be SOL.

I'd like more proof than a wikipedia page, so if anyone has any apple documentation stating the PCIe version in the original Mac Pro, I'd be interested to see that.
 
Either way, I'd give it 2 hours *max* once the first 8800GT is delivered in a new MP before some tries to install it in the classic MP and posts about it here, giving us a definitive answer if the upgrade will be easy or hard for the classic MP owners out there.....
 
technocoy said:
Unless this card isn't a typical 8800GT.

I am running one in my MacPro now when I boot into windows. I've been wanting to put the one I have into a dedicated zBrush PC and then get this one for the MacPro with the special firmware.

If they have made this card not compatible with the current systems they are shooting themselves in the foot.

It's a 16 lane card just the same as the x1900.
Click to expand...

So there is no issue with powering it, or did you have to connect an extra lead or something? Were you able to just plug in the 8800GT and that's it?
 
I will be honest. If the best graphics card I will ever be able to put in my Mac Pro I bought a few months ago is the current ATI I will probably never buy Apple again. There is no excuse that I just bought a 2500$ computer and can't put newer cards in it. If this is the case Apple needs to release a good 1.0 card for early Mac Pro adopters. Wow.. a 2500$ comp you can't upgrade the card on. This computer is supposed to last me many years and I better not be stuck with the ATi as the best card I can ever put in here. Please let this not be the case. :mad:
/rant
Ok I will be optimistic for now.
 
No offense, but seriously ....

These threats of "If the company doesn't offer me THIS for my specific machine, I'll probably never buy ANYTHING from them ever again!" are kind of weak and immature.

I know I purchased my Mac Pro based on the abilities I knew were available for it at the time of purchase. (I was plenty satisfied with the ATI X1900XT video option at the time I bought it, over a year ago.)

If you bought one just "a few months ago" and had concerns the video choices for it weren't going to meet your needs, then it's YOU who should have held off on the purchase.

The way I see it, Apple products are good products primarily because of the OS X operating system, an OS I can't (legally) get or install on anyone else's hardware. They're also great because of some of the Apple-only software products they offer, like Final Cut Express and Pro, and the iLife suite. And lastly, they're superior choices because of the build quality and attention to detail they put into their design. (They have endless little advantages over generic PCs that people constantly overlook. The ability to boot one in "Target" mode, turning it into a big external hard drive to another attached computer is just one example of this.)

In a perfect world, yes, Macs would support any graphics card I wanted to buy and throw in there. But they don't -- and limited graphics card options has *always* been an issue with Apple products. The thing is, though, they do provide you at least a few options which should be suitable for the tasks most people will do with the systems. If you're hell-bent on performance beyond those choices, you can resell the Mac and buy a newer model.


statikcat said:
I will be honest. If the best graphics card I will ever be able to put in my Mac Pro I bought a few months ago is the current ATI I will probably never buy Apple again. There is no excuse that I just bought a 2500$ computer and can't put newer cards in it. If this is the case Apple needs to release a good 1.0 card for early Mac Pro adopters. Wow.. a 2500$ comp you can't upgrade the card on. This computer is supposed to last me many years and I better not be stuck with the ATi as the best card I can ever put in here. Please let this not be the case. :mad:
/rant
Ok I will be optimistic for now.
Click to expand...
 
statikcat said:
I will be honest. If the best graphics card I will ever be able to put in my Mac Pro I bought a few months ago is the current ATI I will probably never buy Apple again.
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree... I chose a Mac Pro over a 24" imac precisely because it was upgradeable. If you cannot use the new 8800, (although the UK apple site appears to sell it for our older pros), I hope that at least they release "something" better than the current offering.

I'd like nothing more than ditching my games-pc and run everything on the mac, under boot camp or Leopard ! At the very least, let us run an 8800 under boot camp as a primary card, or something...
 
Guys, Guys - see my earlier posts.

It IS available as an upgrade for the existing Mac pros, it IS on the UK Apple Store website, and I have ordered it this afternoon with an 8 day shipping quoted.
 
TransientWolf said:
Guys, Guys - see my earlier posts.

It IS available as an upgrade for the existing Mac pros, it IS on the UK Apple Store website, and I have ordered it this afternoon with an 8 day shipping quoted.
Click to expand...

Please let us know how it works.

It's not available on the US store yet or I would have already ordered it.

The UK link definitely doesn't indicate it only works in the newer Mac Pro's. It does mention some PCIe 2.0 stuff, but it doesn't say the card is made only for the 2008 Mac Pro's... so I'm definitely hopeful it will work.
 
If it's not compatible I would be amazed that they haven't indicated it on the website.

These links

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/247242-15-card-slot

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=261&threadid=89443&enterthread=y

give me comfort that the card will definitely work in the 1.1 slot, but will require the power connector to be connected as it won't get sufficient power from the slot alone. That shouldn't be a problem because the X1900 I have in has the power connecter anyway (and I don't want to keep both cards in).
 
Rumor has it that people are getting off the shell 8800 GTs running in the Mac Pro with 10.5.2...

I don't have a 8800 GT, or I'd try it myself.
 
timb said:
Rumor has it that people are getting off the shell 8800 GTs running in the Mac Pro with 10.5.2...

I don't have a 8800 GT, or I'd try it myself.
Click to expand...

Don't you need a firmware flash to make it boot in an EFI environment?
 
where did you read these rumours .. and which type of 8800GT, I mean which brand will work ? Proper product description would be highly appreciated.
 
Seen some posts about it now - google it and you will see some stuff although some are hacked AMD machines running OSX. Looks complicated but 10.5.2 looks like it will support as is potentially. Having said that I am happy paying an extra £25 and waiting a couple of weeks than going third party especially with 2 and a half years of Applecare to keep 'clean'!

Everything I am seeing says this card will work though and with Apple allowing orders, with no specific mention that it doesn't works on older machines (and a huge installed base that would be very unhappy if there wasn't an upgrade option) I am very confident.
 
[RUNNING IN CIRCLES, SCREAMING LIKE A GIRL]
Picture%205.png

[/RUNNING IN CIRCLES, SCREAMING LIKE A GIRL]

Seriously, though, what I miss most about my old PowerMac is its 6800GT. The 7300GT is no substitute. I've been waiting for this since my poor old G5 drowned in its coolant.
 
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