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US Marines tossed a puppy..comes full circle

angelneo said:
I'm not getting what you are implying. Don't you find it hypocritical that one guy munching on a chicken wing is calling out for justice for a poor puppy's death?
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Hang on... are you really implying that because we live in a largely carnivorous society, that we should logically be "OK" with indiscriminately and inhumanely killing animals for our pleasure and not simply for food?

--That essentially, if one shops at the local supermarket for steak, that one shouldn't have a problem seeing the little kid next door pulling the legs off of stray kittens and beating stray dogs with baseball bats to let out his aggression? Interesting. If you really see absolutely no difference, that's a conversation I hope no one wastes time having with you. You're being ridiculously obtuse and pedantic in my opinion.

If you were being genuine, you would be unsympathetic to those eating at McDonald's while protesting dolphin hunting. While still a stretch, at least there's a correlation there regarding what animals are viewed as acceptable food/meat and which aren't.

~ CB
 
Man, I can't believe someone in here is saying "because you eat meat, you can't judge him for killing a puppy." What planet are you from? He wasn't killing it to eat it. It's different if you are using the animal for sustenance.

I don't kill the meat I eat, it's already dead when it arrives at the grocery. I don't pull the trigger that puts the slug in the cow's head. I don't see it die. I don't take pleasure in knowing that the poor thing has died so that I may eat it, either.

That guy's actions were intolerable. Simply hearing that this occurred makes my blood boil. He was a friggin moron, is a friggin moron, and will probably continue to be. Any punishment he receives is well deserved, in my opinion, and is likely not punishment enough.
 
As I repeat I am not condoning his actions, he has been punished and he deserved it, but yet everyone is getting on their moral high horses and slamming him still.

EDIT:
I am not an animal lover nor a vegetarian, what I see here is soldier who did something stupid and irresponsible. In the situation he is in, and what I have seen in those situation, I'm not sure what to say of him.

mrwizardno2 said:
That guy's actions were intolerable. Simply hearing that this occurred makes my blood boil. He was a friggin moron, is a friggin moron, and will probably continue to be. Any punishment he receives is well deserved, in my opinion, and is likely not punishment enough.
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You should try joining the army.

EDIT:
Cleverboy said:
--That essentially, if one shops at the local supermarket for steak, that one shouldn't have a problem seeing the little kid next door pulling the legs off of stray kittens and beating stray dogs with baseball bats to let out his aggression? Interesting. If you really see absolutely no difference, that's a conversation I hope no one wastes time having with you. You're being ridiculously obtuse and pedantic in my opinion.
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No, as I mentioned earlier, It should not make a difference to you or me that if he is throwing chickens, snakes or dogs down the cliff. I did not ever say it's ok to kill animals for your enjoyment.
 
Things like this happen all the time. ONly it's not filmed...Throwing defensless kittens in a bags and drowning them in a river to control the stray population. There was a special report on tv, last year, showing the treatment of animals in certain parts China....a brief video showed a cat being skinned alive. I was traumatized seeing that...literally shaking with tears in my eyes. Unfortunately, it's not too uncommon for some people to just throw unwanted animals off a cliff or into a river. Or to skin animals alive for their coats or for food. It's horrible.

This puppy video looks fake because the guy was so nonchalant about it and the yelping noise sounded like it was added afterward. Also, nobody, in a normal mental state, would film something like this, for real. I could understand doing something like this as a joke...and making it look real....but not doing that to an actual, real, live puppy. There are sick people, of course, who could do this. But I just don't know..... It's something you would see in a movie, like what Hannibal Lector would do, but not something you would ever imagine seeing in real life.
 
angelneo said:
I'm not getting what you are implying. Don't you find it hypocritical that one guy munching on a chicken wing is calling out for justice for a poor puppy's death?
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I don't find it hypocritical. I think ignorance is bliss and that if people were to actually confront how their food gets to their plate, they would be equally outraged. If people care about a puppy, it should be encouraged, especially if it results in public awareness of the rights of that animal. Increasing the protections and standards for any animal is progress.
 
foidulus said:
And yet the punishment is worse than many soldiers who illegally harm human beings get.

Sad when the outrage over a dead puppy dwarfs the outrage caused by rape and murder, sadder still when the punishment in the puppy case is more severe.

Not defending what this guy did, but I do find it strange that animal abuse cases generate so much more press than human abuse cases...
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I totally agree. This situation is a disgraceful statement about our society.
:(
 
Iscariot said:
Yup, because that's completely what I was implying.

If you want to debate the ethics of vegetarianism, there's a separate thread for it. I'm not interested.
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I guess I should elaborate. You said that if people saw how food gets on their plate, they would be equally outraged. I provided an anecdotal tidbit showing that what you stated is 100% true.

Besides, cows aren't thrown off cliffs while still alive. Even if you don't consider the suffering at all, butchers and meat cutters all over would be pissed off because of broken bones and pieces of bone in the meat, and the meat wouldn't be in great shape either.
 
angelneo said:
Sometimes I find it hypocritical that so many people are crying foul. Unless you are a vegetarian or belong to a vegetarian denominator, I don't think you get a vote on judging this marine.
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I think everyone here (at least living in the US and its territories) does have a right to judge. You see, yes, he is putting himself into service for us and making it his life's effort to defend this country, but it is our taxpayer money that is funding a) this 'war', b) his training, c) his deployment in 'this war', and d) this country's good name to the world.

If you had to go to a convention where you are to represent your company and try to sell your product, you're going to be on your best behaviour and show to everyone how good your company is by the work you do, no? Same applies here.

His work.. we never saw what he did in combat, but this video and his actions in it sure as hell didn't how how good his 'company (our country) is, did it? Since he didn't, and wasted his part of the money we're paying for him to be there, he doesn't deserve to represent this country. As if this war and the current administration didn't already give us a bad rep, this ices it.

So yeah.. we do deserve to judge. If they're over there on my dime, I expect them to be at their best; not just in what they do, but in who they are. If not, they don't deserve my dime, and I'd say it's in my right to have him sacked.

BL.
 
bradl said:
I think everyone here (at least living in the US and its territories) does have a right to judge. You see, yes, he is putting himself into service for us and making it his life's effort to defend this country, but it is our taxpayer money that is funding a) this 'war', b) his training, c) his deployment in 'this war', and d) this country's good name to the world.

If you had to go to a convention where you are to represent your company and try to sell your product, you're going to be on your best behaviour and show to everyone how good your company is by the work you do, no? Same applies here.

His work.. we never saw what he did in combat, but this video and his actions in it sure as hell didn't how how good his 'company (our country) is, did it? Since he didn't, and wasted his part of the money we're paying for him to be there, he doesn't deserve to represent this country. As if this war and the current administration didn't already give us a bad rep, this ices it.

So yeah.. we do deserve to judge. If they're over there on my dime, I expect them to be at their best; not just in what they do, but in who they are. If not, they don't deserve my dime, and I'd say it's in my right to have him sacked.

BL.
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I have already replied to Andrew Henry, that yes, he is giving a bad name to those that are serving the force. What I am referring to in that comment, is those who are outraged by the puppy death. In fact, I think the main reason contributing to his punishment is the act of putting up the video for all to see. Even if the video is fake, he is still guilty.
 
Antares said:
This puppy video looks fake because the guy was so nonchalant about it and the yelping noise sounded like it was added afterward. Also, nobody, in a normal mental state, would film something like this, for real. I could understand doing something like this as a joke...and making it look real....but not doing that to an actual, real, live puppy. There are sick people, of course, who could do this. But I just don't know..... It's something you would see in a movie, like what Hannibal Lector would do, but not something you would ever imagine seeing in real life.
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Well.. considering that IT IS REAL, and not only involved REAL marines but actually involved a real puppy that was thrown into a rock gully... all of your observations are kind of pointless.
HONOLULU -- The Marine Corps is expelling one Marine and disciplining another for their roles in a video showing a Marine throwing a puppy off a cliff while on patrol in Iraq.

The 17-second video posted on YouTube drew sharp condemnation from animal rights groups when it came to light in March.

The clip shows two Marines joking before one hurls the puppy into a rocky gully. A yelping sound is heard as it flips through the air.

Marine Corps Base Hawaii said in a news release Wednesday that Lance Cpl. David Motari received unspecified "non-judicial punishment'' and "is being processed for separation'' from the Marine Corps.

The second Marine, Sgt. Crismarvin Banez Encarnacion also received unspecified "non-judicial'' punishment.
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Need more info? Here is some commentary from an alleged friend of David Motari's:
You think you all know everything. Well i was there. He is my friend. We did that because those dogs gave away our position, and they were disease ridden. The USMC allows us to do such things for our safety, so please just leave this alone, and no we do not do more horrible things than this. You have never been there never will, so sit on your couches and let us do the work that allows you too. Thank You. Jeff grow Up, youre pathetic.
Mar 03, 2008, 8:20 pm"

The dog, along with other dogs, was killed because it could have given away their position to the enemy. It was also likely disease-ridden, maybe had rabies. You guy s don't know , you weren't there , you have no right to second guess what he did. We should just be grateful that we have young men like him who are willing to risk their young lives to protect our great nation and our freedoms. You sit on your asses living in comfort and whine and criticize those who are in harm's way.It stops right now.

I just wish I could shake this young man's hand and say "thank you for your service and sacrifice." He's served in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan ... what have YOU done?
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Wow... I guess he told us, right? Totally justifies the laughing and hurling of the puppy. --You know... instead of it just being an excuse to kill something in a cruel screwed up way.

~ CB
 
You think you all know everything. Well i was there. He is my friend. We did that because those dogs gave away our position, and they were disease ridden. The USMC allows us to do such things for our safety, so please just leave this alone, and no we do not do more horrible things than this. You have never been there never will, so sit on your couches and let us do the work that allows you too. Thank You. Jeff grow Up, youre pathetic.
Mar 03, 2008, 8:20 pm"

The dog, along with other dogs, was killed because it could have given away their position to the enemy. It was also likely disease-ridden, maybe had rabies. You guy s don't know , you weren't there , you have no right to second guess what he did. We should just be grateful that we have young men like him who are willing to risk their young lives to protect our great nation and our freedoms. You sit on your asses living in comfort and whine and criticize those who are in harm's way.It stops right now.

I just wish I could shake this young man's hand and say "thank you for your service and sacrifice." He's served in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan ... what have YOU done?
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These are all reaching. If they were in a position where a dog could give away their location, they probably would deal with the situation in a fashion that doesn't involve making a fraternity-style video.

I think, though, it does the raise the point that perhaps we should reflect on the situation these men have been put in and consider the psychological stress they are under. Is he a product of the military? Is he a product of recruitment processes that leave much to be desired? Is he an example of a systemic problem in the United States military?
 
Full Circle. :confused:

I was sort of hoping for this headline...

"McGruff the Crime Dog Arrested for Tossing Marine Off Cliff"
 
Iscariot said:
These are all reaching. If they were in a position where a dog could give away their location, they probably would deal with the situation in a fashion that doesn't involve making a fraternity-style video.
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I have to agree here. If they were concerned about their position being given away, there were better ways of dealing with the dog(s) that don't involve them being thrown off a cliff and laughing for the camera. Aren't Marines still issued Ka-Bars?
 
ezekielrage_99 said:
I tend to agree, if it wasn't cute people wouldn't care...
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If it weren't widely seen as "familiar" or domesticated. Cute has little to do with it. Remember "Darren Williams" and the whole dog fighting scandal? Moreover, if the marines were "cow tipping" or rolling them off cliffs, we'd be right back in the same conversation... albiet, with less people with firsthand cow experience, there'll be less outrage (and, yes... perhaps some laughing).

~ CB
 
angelneo said:
Don't you find it hypocritical that one guy munching on a chicken wing is calling out for justice for a poor puppy's death?
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I don't. What I do find funny is a PETA member crying to save great whites then gets eaten by one.

Anyway, all kidding aside, the real issue is what he did. When your in the military (I was, and am a proud supporter of) regardless of branch, there are behavior expectations. I think someone mentioned it, Conduct unbecoming. That is more (at least for me) the real issue.

The "Marine" thing to do would have been to take it back and let another department figure out what to do, give it to a local, etc whatever.

I don't buy any cr@p about "you don't know what it's like over there" that's not the issue, but merely a deterant to the real issue. What he did was wrong and IS conduct UNBECOMING and should NOT be tolerated. Oh so he had a bad day? A 4yr old shot at him? So that makes it right? Well if we use that rational, we can all go home and publically kick our own pets, someone elses pet and call it justified because we had a bad day.

The point is not how we discipline other crimes, nor what any member of the armed forces goes through over there or anywhere, nor how bad his day was, or any of those things. The point is he should not have done that PERIOD. Not only is that not how marines should act, that's not how a human should act. If others do it that doesn't justify his actions. It's another black eye to the US and the US Armed Forces that others will use. Now not only are we infidels, but we're puppy killing infidels. :eek:

Regardless of how others act, we need to police our own, personally I'd like to call up some 'good ole boys' find him and beat him with a pillow case full of wrenches.
 
kkat69 said:
I don't. What I do find funny is a PETA member crying to save great whites then gets eaten by one.
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I feel inclined to reply to you since you quote my post. And did not read the replies after mine.

kkat69 said:
Anyway, all kidding aside, the real issue is what he did. When your in the military (I was, and am a proud supporter of) regardless of branch, there are behavior expectations. I think someone mentioned it, Conduct unbecoming. That is more (at least for me) the real issue.
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First of all, this relates to the fact that he shouldn't have recorded any activities in the military without any clearance, much less post it on youtube or anywhere. I'm guessing this contributes to the main bulk of his punishment.

kkat69 said:
I don't buy any cr@p about "you don't know what it's like over there" that's not the issue, but merely a deterant to the real issue. What he did was wrong and IS conduct UNBECOMING and should NOT be tolerated. Oh so he had a bad day? A 4yr old shot at him? So that makes it right? Well if we use that rational, we can all go home and publically kick our own pets, someone elses pet and call it justified because we had a bad day.
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Secondly, that marine has stated his reasons for the actions, whether is it true or some made up excuses for his actions, it's hard for us to tell except for those around him and his immediate commander. The only thing we can say is that he should not have made a video out of it.

Thirdly, you were in the military, surely you have came across situations where animals have to die for your safety or tactical reasons? I know I have, but out of respect, I will not discuss them.
 
This kid had the physical and mental ability to withstand recruit training, although he didn't take the Core Values to heart. Most come out of boot camp a stronger and changed individual. Don't take the actions of one stupid kid as a collective view of my Marine Corps.

He was a piss poor ass excuse for a Marine, we're not taught to be cruel...he brought that in on his own. There are kids that go through the MCRD who are just physical studs and don't take the discipline seriously. Everyone's got a different reason for joining. Some wanna serve, some just wanna get some. There's a difference. I was outraged by it just as much as the next guy and I'm glad to see him booted.

The Marine Corps will be better without him. His actions show that he's not fit to wear the EGA or keep the title. Good luck at McDonalds, kid.
 
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