Yeah, but with discs, you mail those off to someone after making a copy and you never have to worry about getting them back. That's my favorite part.
I still remember having to harp people to get our jazz drives back. That was such a pain! ^_^
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USB 3.0 and Faster FireWire in Next Mac Pro, iMac?
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Yeah, but with discs, you mail those off to someone after making a copy and you never have to worry about getting them back. That's my favorite part.
I still remember having to harp people to get our jazz drives back. That was such a pain! ^_^
True, and I've always said that anyone desperately needing BD-R burning can just grab an external and Toast. I'd like to have it built-in (which there's also an option for) but right now I am waiting for the money and the machine to be right.
True, but I couldn't afford LTO prices.
5 TB data BU
But how much are these Enterprise level tape drives? I have no idea, but I expect they are REALLY expensive. $50,000 per unit? Anyone with an idea of their average cost?
This is a huge question for me - how to backup 5 TB of data using a realistic, a cost-effective work-flow.
I had a discussion with with toke lahti a few pages back in the thread, about archiving to Blu-ray. I have serious doubts about its unproven long-term viability as an archive medium, though he seems to take it on faith that Blu-ray will manage to hold its data much longer than DC-R or DVD-R.
What are the hypothetical archive options?
1. Tape. While expensive high-end units are still the enterprise solution, I have not used a tape drive in years. I think there is a reason these have dropped off the map for smaller offices and workgroups - the small size of tapes (40 GB / 104 compressed) and SLOW speeds (5 GB/hour max, probably less for compressed) mean the smaller workgroup versions would be cumbersome with 5 TB of data. That is 50-125 tapes, for each backup copy, and 1000 hours to make each copy.
2. Online. While these options exist, they start getting expensive beyond 100 GB of data. SLOW upload times... $50/month per 100GB = $2500/month for my 5 TB. Not to mention some of this might end up on HDD (see #4) at the data warehouse's location anyway. Again, $30,000 a year might not be expensive for a larger company, but for small business it is a bit of cash.
3. Optical. I've had some problems in the past with failed CD-R's, so I am a bit more cautious about this than other users. Nevertheless, let's look at Blu-ray. 25GB per disk (single sided) means 200 disks, at $6 each. Still $1200, plus my time to record 200 disks (not including updates). Double sided would reduce the number of disk to 100, and the recording time as well, but these run about $25 each, so that is $2500. If I knew this was a real, long-term archival option, it would be worth the time. But the longevity of Blu-ray disk is still unproven, and both CD-R and DVD-R had MUCH shorter lives in actual use than were asserted early in their development.
4. HDD. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is the only viable way I see to archive 5 TB of data. My solution is to have triple backups of the 5TB, besides my original. I further plan to move each of the three to a new set of HDD in about three years time. Transfer speeds (with eSATA) are 100 MB/sec and storage costs for each 5TB BU is about $300-400 at today's prices. One set is in a safe deposit box at my bank. I guess I could ship a fourth set of disks to another location (2000 miles away) in case of an EMP!
Am I missing something? Is there some other option besides HDDs? What solution do other smaller, high storage-need workplaces use?
But how much are these Enterprise level tape drives? I have no idea, but I expect they are REALLY expensive. $50,000 per unit? Anyone with an idea of their average cost?
This is a huge question for me - how to backup 5 TB of data using a realistic, a cost-effective work-flow.
I had a discussion with with toke lahti a few pages back in the thread, about archiving to Blu-ray. I have serious doubts about its unproven long-term viability as an archive medium, though he seems to take it on faith that Blu-ray will manage to hold its data much longer than DC-R or DVD-R.
What are the hypothetical archive options?
1. Tape. While expensive high-end units are still the enterprise solution, I have not used a tape drive in years. I think there is a reason these have dropped off the map for smaller offices and workgroups - the small size of tapes (40 GB / 104 compressed) and SLOW speeds (5 GB/hour max, probably less for compressed) mean the smaller workgroup versions would be cumbersome with 5 TB of data. That is 50-125 tapes, for each backup copy, and 1000 hours to make each copy.
2. Online. While these options exist, they start getting expensive beyond 100 GB of data. SLOW upload times... $50/month per 100GB = $2500/month for my 5 TB. Not to mention some of this might end up on HDD (see #4) at the data warehouse's location anyway. Again, $30,000 a year might not be expensive for a larger company, but for small business it is a bit of cash.
3. Optical. I've had some problems in the past with failed CD-R's, so I am a bit more cautious about this than other users. Nevertheless, let's look at Blu-ray. 25GB per disk (single sided) means 200 disks, at $6 each. Still $1200, plus my time to record 200 disks (not including updates). Double sided would reduce the number of disk to 100, and the recording time as well, but these run about $25 each, so that is $2500. If I knew this was a real, long-term archival option, it would be worth the time. But the longevity of Blu-ray disk is still unproven, and both CD-R and DVD-R had MUCH shorter lives in actual use than were asserted early in their development.
4. HDD. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is the only viable way I see to archive 5 TB of data. My solution is to have triple backups of the 5TB, besides my original. I further plan to move each of the three to a new set of HDD in about three years time. Transfer speeds (with eSATA) are 100 MB/sec and storage costs for each 5TB BU is about $300-400 at today's prices. One set is in a safe deposit box at my bank. I guess I could ship a fourth set of disks to another location (2000 miles away) in case of an EMP!
Am I missing something? Is there some other option besides HDDs? What solution do other smaller, high storage-need workplaces use?
I use hard drives to back my stuff up (second internal 1.5TB drive in my PowerMac to back up the first one) and a 2nd external 1.5TB drive stored off site in case of some kind of catastrophic loss. I don't trust recordable optical media. I've seen WAY WAY too many CDR and DVDR discs go bad over time due to the dye in them breaking down for whatever reason. The original hard drive usually outlasts the disc and you'll never know your backup is bad until it's too late (i.e. you generally wouldn't touch them until there's a problem and that's a bad time to find out they're no good).
It also takes too many discs to back anything serious up. Even Blu-Ray only holds 50GB on a dual-layer disc. If you have 5TB to backup, you'd need 100 dual-layer discs! Do you have any idea what a PITA it was just for me to install Logic 9 off a half dozen DVDs (because you have to go back and check on it and then swap the disc and then go do something else again for while)? It takes FOREVER. You do not want to sit there and manually change out those discs. If even one goes bad, you're screwed. Most tape backups have been too low a capacity for newer hard drives, but even the highest ones available now generally cost MORE than just buying another hard drive (I've seen tape systems that only hold 300GB a tape that cost over $3000!!! That's insane when you can get a 2nd hard drive for next to nothing these days (2TB drives got for barely over $100 now). When 1.5TB drives go for <$100, you just get a quad-enclosure and do RAID or something. I think 3TB drives are out now. You'd only need two of those (assuming they're not already just a pair of RAIDed 1.5TB drives).
If they 5TB you're talking about is not all linear, the cheapest way to go would probably be just to get 3 2TB drives (or 2 twos and 1 one) and another set for off site.
Thanks - that is roughly the setup I use now. Just wondering if aI'm missing an option, as some recommend archiving on two different types of media., But I don;t really see a viable second choice to HDDs.
No Blu-ray, no Moolah from me
And, of course, Steve Jobs won't be seeing my $15,000 either.
Smoke and mirrors covering up 3 year old archaic "super-drive" technology burners.
At least 8 different vendors on eBay putting together Mac Towers with faster processors and Blu-ray burners.
And then there's Dell. Buying another couple of 30" monitors tonight.
The man is truly continuing to be a clueless clown who needs desperately to listen to his harshest critics.
And, of course, Steve Jobs won't be seeing my $15,000 either.
Smoke and mirrors covering up 3 year old archaic "super-drive" technology burners.
At least 8 different vendors on eBay putting together Mac Towers with faster processors and Blu-ray burners.
And then there's Dell. Buying another couple of 30" monitors tonight.
The man is truly continuing to be a clueless clown who needs desperately to listen to his harshest critics.
The Mac Pro comes with a huge mark-up (about $1000) for the current Quad.
So, theoretically there could be a Mac Pro in the $2000 range that has enough power. And there shouldn't be a problem to put cheaper processors in.
As for me, I'd like to see the mini go - to be replaced by a sub-Mac Pro computer.
But this would really eat into the Mac Pro market and its fat margins. It may be pocket change, compared to what's coming in from iPhone+pad, but there's probably no reason for Apple to miss out on an earning opportunity.
Quit trying to be logical and absolutely dead on right. You're in a forum filled with Apple shills creaming over what the next crap from Apple will offer and pooh-poohing every vitally necessary technology it will need to remain remotely competitive in the marketplace and WON'T have because Steve has got issues.
That's the way Apple works. Never seen so many new names in here. Shills. Whores. Flacks. Jobs and Apple think they create reality. They don't, and every now and then it bites them right back on the ass. Hard.
Waste of time dealing with them, because the truth gets lost in all the BS.
Indeed. A second-rate fad toymaker mere years from bankruptcy after the public tires of their overpriced severly limited fad gadgets and the bottom-line BUBBLE from those fad gadget profits pops. And pop it will, just like every other BUBBLE.
Also a company that holds onto a computer line only to foist substandard three year old "superdrive" technology on clueless idiots "because it just works."
YOU got put in time-out for trying this crap before.
Let this be your last lying post on the subject or back you will go.
Blu-ray is not dead, and will be around for at least a decade. For it will take at least that long for all countries of the world, US the slowest, by the way, to get broadband to all its citizens so thieves can steal and kill Blu-ray and major motion pictures the way they killed CD's and music.
We won't mention the droves of new Astroturfers, Fandroids, Shills, Trolls, Jobs-haters, and Apple-antagonists.
Intent is easy to surmise. I find far fewer of those, because why waste the time if you weren't intently interested in the fate of Apple in the first place.
Intent is easy to surmise. I find far fewer of those, because why waste the time if you weren't intently interested in the fate of Apple in the first place.
Many ask that same question about the intent of the latter group.
Like I said, largely irrelevant, because one, they are easy to spot, and two, there are only about one of them wasting their time for about every twenty paid Apple shills.
Maybe more on iCrap threads, which I rarely frequent because I'll never be an iCrap consumer.
Like I said, largely irrelevant, because one, they are easy to spot, and two, there are only about one of them wasting their time for about every twenty paid Apple shills.
Maybe more on iCrap threads, which I rarely frequent because I'll never be an iCrap consumer.
Good for you, thanks for letting us know.
A decently equipped Mac Pro runs well over $3000 so I don't think there's as much overlap as some people seem to think. Places like Best Buy do NOT carry the Mac Pro because they know that no typical home consumer in their right mind would pay that much for a tower computer these days when PC towers there go for $600-1500. I think a CONSUMER mini-tower (fancy new case would also help set it apart; I like the old PowerMac cases, personally; they were easy to get into and had that cool blue or grey/clear look). A Quad with a good GPU and a little bit of expansion room for $1500-2000 would work wonders, IMO. If anything, I'd like to see iMacs go to the bottom of the heap. They should be Apple's sub $1000 line (i.e. the only kind of person that would WANT an all-in-one is a non-computer type who wants no clutter, etc. or a business for a basic word processing terminal ,etc.) They don't sell at all in the PC world.
Would be a great replacement of the mini, a more capable, smaller tower with great design and a real GPU, priced between $1400 and $1800.
Well I'm pretty sure normal people buy iPods, iPhones and iPads. Maybe you should talk to a psychiatrist about this.
Archival technology
Check these guys out. It seems to be the real deal, and has passed tests by the military. It's engraving on rock for all practical purposes; disks go for about $22.00 each.
http://www.millenniata.com/
Check these guys out. It seems to be the real deal, and has passed tests by the military. It's engraving on rock for all practical purposes; disks go for about $22.00 each.
http://www.millenniata.com/
Good for you, thanks for letting us know.
I wasn't talking to you.
Maybe "normal" people who buy overpriced and overhyped crap they don't need and are fool beta-testers for a company that looks upon them as idiots need to talk to a psychiatrist far more than I do.
I wasn't talking to you.
Maybe "normal" people who buy overpriced and overhyped crap they don't need and are fool beta-testers for a company that looks upon them as idiots need to talk to a psychiatrist far more than I do.
So much anger and frustration. Bro it's a computer.
Maybe some people need to get out more.
Maybe "normal" people who buy overpriced and overhyped crap they don't need and are fool beta-testers for a company that looks upon them as idiots need to talk to a psychiatrist far more than I do.
What respect I still had for you just disappeared.
- My Philosophy Tutor.
You may not say stupid, but you do imply it.
There is something you're missing or refusing to admit, so you lash out instead.
apple makes all consumer products - you would pretty much except any any-day person to purchase ANY apple product.
How do you know when you've won an argument by nailing the issue dead on the head?
When your opponent responds with a completely unrelated judgment meant as an insult.
How ELSE do you know when you've won an argument by nailing the issue dead on the head?
When your opponent throws up a straw man argument (an exaggerated one you did not make in the first place) to knock down.
I never implied Apple customers are stupid, being one myself. I did state clearly that a certain subset of them are woefully ignorant.
Ignorance is not stupidity; ignorance can be overcome by those WILLING TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT and willing to cut through their own denial to LEARN TRUTH.
This seems very promising and when it's available for bd also, it will be step forward.
Simple googling will tell you.
I'd take this:
http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/ct...owPrice=&familyviewgroup=1907&viewtype=Matrix
$2k-3k.
I'd say: it depends.
How fast & much this 5TB archive will change?
What size of pieces the archive can be splitted to while preserving good usability?
How fast it will grow?
How fast access you need to it?
How much support time you want to give it?
If archive doesn't grow rapidly and you need fast access to large portion of archive, maybe you should use raid5/6-nas.
If the size of archive doubles every year, after couple of years, you end up having room full of nas'es and very high electricity bill. If you don't need fast or automatic access to most of archive, I'd choose tape. One cubic meter of shelf space can store something like 4000 TB and the shelf doesn't use electricity.
If you produce small amount of data all the time, which is easy to split in small chunks and you don't need to access many chunks at the same time, like 100GB video footage per month, that could be burned to bd. So far it seems, that bd will have smaller initial investment, but you need to test the integrity of your archive more often.