USB 3.x PCIe Cards for Classic Mac Pro

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by ActionableMango, Dec 3, 2012.

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  1. Earl Urley, Oct 31, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017

    Earl Urley macrumors regular

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    Nov 10, 2014
    #1901
    If it were me, I'd avoid using El Capitan for any application that requires stable USB connections through an external USB hub.

    A partial explanation (and even fix! but only for Intel USB controllers) can be found here, but be warned, it's a pretty deep flaw whose explanation is complex:

    https://github.com/RehabMan/OS-X-USB-Inject-All

    If you want the more comprehensive and rather complex reason USB 3.0 and external hubs don't work well in El Capitan, the best explanation I can find is of course on a Hackintosh board:

    http://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/guide-10-11-usb-changes-and-solutions.173616/

    Long story short, someone who really didn't know how to properly program for USB devices programmed the USB stack in El Capitan, and they had to hire another guy to fix it, but the fix was even more of a ****** hack that renders most USB 3.0 external hubs as useless garbage except for certain chipsets, and only 4-port hubs or smaller can be expected to work reliably.

    Sonnet probably knows about this situation and rather than make users jump through hoops or complicate things, they probably (and properly) just choose not to support El Capitan (10.11) for their USB 3.1 card.

    tl;dr: Don't trust El Capitan's USB stack for USB 3.0 external hubs
     
  2. ActionableMango thread starter macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    #1902
    Thanks for posting this--it is nice to see the explanation for why USB was so bad in El Capitan. This is one of many reasons that a lot of us referred to it as "El Crapitan".
     
  3. Earl Urley macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    #1903
    Whomever wrote the first bad stack, and the guy whose fix made things even worse in El Capitan / 10.11.x, these people should be fired into the sun.

    Or at the very least, in a perfect world, they aren't working at Apple any more.

    "Bit Rot" indeed.
     
  4. ShawnF macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    #1904
    I am going to update my Macbook to Sierra now!
     
  5. Synchro3 macrumors 65816

    Synchro3

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    #1905
    I have a similar USB/eSATA cable. The problem ist eSATA is not powered, so I cannot use it with small 2.5" SSD's without power supply. Apart of that it's an uncomplicated device, no drivers needed, performance up to 400 MB/s.
     
  6. box185 macrumors member

    box185

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    #1906
    I purchased a pair of these and installed one in my 2009 Mac Pro, but for some reason the USB-C connectors seemed to be too close to the bottom of the bracket ( close to the circuit board ) and that resulted in some interference issues with the Belkin cables I was using. Other cables may be alright, but I didn't go any further with this card.

    Another piece of information from Sonnet's website under the Technical Notes header on the Tech Spec tab:

    2. macOS erroneously reports a 5Gbps connection when connected at 10Gbps.

    I later removed this card and installed a USB-C card from IOGear.
     
  7. William Payne macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Location:
    Wanganui, New Zealand.
    #1907
    Erroneously means mistaken, so I wonder if they are implying that it does 10Gbps but just states otherwise.
     
  8. Earl Urley macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    #1908
    I have a 2009 upgraded to 2010 with a standard Sonnet USB 3.0 card and approved Anker 3.0 hub, and there are times when I have to reboot just to plug in an iPhone or just a simple USB 3.0 hard drive, and guess which system that runs- you guessed it, El Capitan 10.11.6. There are times when it just refuses to accept that I've plugged in something, usually needs a restart to get it recognized. Because of certain software it's running, it can't be upgraded to Sierra/High Sierra so I have to live with living in the era of B&W G3s where I had to reboot just to hook up external SCSI drives.
     
  9. ActionableMango thread starter macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    #1909
    That's terrible. As much as I don't like ElCap, I don't remember it doing that to me.

    However, anything that isn't going to benefit from USB 3.0, like your iPhone, you should just plug into a USB 2.0 port so you don't have to reboot!
     
  10. RickyHunter macrumors newbie

    RickyHunter

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Location:
    Spain
    #1910
    Hi to all.
    I'm searching everywhere to find out a solution to an issue.
    Purchased a new FASTA-6GU3 Plus card, arrived today.
    Simply it isn't recognized... Look at this screencapture:

    [​IMG]

    So my search has started.
    I previously had a FASTA-6GU3 card, but because I've upgraded
    to osx 10.11.6, it gave me some issues, so I decided to purchase the new one.
    Now I read of all these issues for usb3 cards.
    Is there any possibility to have it correctly recognized by the system?
    I purchased this because I really need esata connection in addition
    to usb3.
    I think that previous card drivers from Caldigit might be the problem,
    but I don't have any clue about their uninstallation.
    Any ideas?
     
  11. rotarypower101 macrumors regular

    rotarypower101

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Location:
    Portland Oregon
    #1911
    Is there a PCIe card with greater than or equal to 6 USB 3.0 + 1 eSATA external ports that is Mac compatible out there?

    Are there any compatible PCIe cards with 6 or greater USB ports avalible for Mac?

    I have tried USB hubs with multiple USB ports, and they always seem to cause small issues with comaptability, and don't work 100% of the time with absolutely no interactions.

    What I would like is completely native transparent operation if possible.


    This is for a MP 3,1 on 10.13
     
  12. iBungie, Nov 11, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017

    iBungie macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2008
    #1912
    Just ordered one of these in the UK (£60) with a plan to add a desktop hub for ease of access to peripherals. Will advise how this works in a few days. (MP 5,1 & MacOs 10.13.2). Currently using a 4 port USB 3.0 card which requires power from SATA so this new card should free up the drive bay I take the power from.
     
  13. toke lahti macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2007
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    #1913
    Check out eSATAp.
     
  14. ActionableMango, Nov 13, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017

    ActionableMango thread starter macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    #1914
    Generally speaking, Mac-compatible USB3 cards stop at 4 ports because that's the most the Fresco Logic chipset will do.

    There are some NEC/Renesas chipset cards that will do 7 ports (usually with 5 or 6 external), but you'd need to hook up supplementary power and install third party OSX drivers with spotty support. And on top of all that you want eSATA too...I don't think there is such a card, but hopefully someone will chip in if there is.

    You'd probably be better off troubleshooting why you can't get a hub to work reliably. I remember early in this thread there were some weird card/hub interactions. Maybe you can ask your card's manufacturer for a recommended hub known to work reliably with their card.
     
  15. RickyHunter macrumors newbie

    RickyHunter

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Location:
    Spain
    #1915
    ...So no one has any clue?
     
  16. ActionableMango thread starter macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    #1916
    Find the list of drivers in the System Info, Software, Extensions area. Identify the name of the driver you want to unload. I can't remember if you can unload the driver there in the GUI or not. If you can't unload it there, then open Terminal and type "kextunload driver" where "driver" is the name of the KEXT in the list. You might have to SUDO, I can't remember.

    Don't accidentally unload an Apple system driver.
     
  17. RickyHunter macrumors newbie

    RickyHunter

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Location:
    Spain
    #1917
    Thanks a lot.
    Nothing... same problems.
    Today I'm gonna format all the system
    (after 9 years of use, I can do it...)
     
  18. tu2thepoo, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017

    tu2thepoo macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    #1918
    I didn't have any issues installing it in my Mac Pro 2009 - the type C connectors do seem a bit low but I haven't had any issues connecting anything. Unfortunately, I don't have any USB 3.1 gen 2 hardware to test, but it's I'm having no trouble with my USB 3.0 hub (using a type-C to type-B cable). My USB3.0 sandisk flash drive tops out at ~200 mB/sec like it does when connected to a regular 3.0 port, so at least nothing's slowed down.

    Anyway, the card comes with a low-profile plate and a quick start guide. MacOS High Sierra (10.13.1) recognizes it as a standard Apple USB 3.1 bus:
    [​IMG]

    Windows 10 recognizes it as a generic USB3.1 hub. There are no separate drivers to download (confirmed by Sonnet tech support).

    Overall, I recommend it if you don't already have a USB3/3.1 card and need something future-proofed. Unfortunately, I can't verify that it delivers full 10gbs speed or USB Power Delivery (though I might get a USB-C to lightning cable to test with my iPhone 8). But Sonnet has a good enough reputation that I’m assuming it’ll work as advertised when I do need those features.
     
  19. simonchase, Dec 1, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017

    simonchase macrumors newbie

    simonchase

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    #1919
    Are some USB-C to USB-C cables only capable of USB2 speeds?

    I just installed this Startech.com card

    System reports Link Speed: 5.0 GT/s on my Mac Pro (Mid 2010) macOS Sierra 10.12.6. I’m perfectly happy with that.

    I connect my ORICO USB 3.1 (USB-C only) dock

    And I do get good transfer speeds that I’m happy with given the limitations of SATA and HDDs. Faster than FW800 and even faster then an internal HDD to HDD transfer.

    But that’s using the USB-A port on the card with a USB-A to USB-C cable.

    If I use my USB-C to USB-C cable the transfer speeds gown down to USB2 speeds. I’ve seen various articles about bad cables but it is a new thought for me that I might need to shop around for a cable.

    Are some USB-C to USB-C cables only capable of USB2 speeds? If so, how does one tell the difference?

    EDIT: Found the answer on wikipedia:

    Full-featured USB-C cables that implement USB 3.1 gen. 2 can handle up to 10 Gbit/s data rate at full duplex. They are marked with a SuperSpeed+ (SuperSpeed 10 Gbit/s) logo. There are also cables which can carry only USB 2.0 with up to 480 Mbit/s data rate. There are USB-IF certification programs available for USB-C products and end users are recommended to use USB-IF certified cables.

    I must say that I doubt that I will be the only non-expert end-user who doesn't find this intuitive
     
  20. ActionableMango thread starter macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    #1920
    USB is a mess, but most especially USB 3.1.

    It amuses me when people attack Apple for Lightning because it's not a standard and so it add another cable. Well USB has added the following cables in the same amount of time that Apple's had only two cables, Dock and Lightning:

    [​IMG]

    And those are just physical connectors. The picture doesn't take into account throughput rating differences like you mentioned. I'm also noticing some USB cables are "charge only" and won't carry any data at all--that caused me a lot of troubleshooting issues until I realized what was going on and labelled them.

    You can make a good case that Apple should use USB-C today, but back when Lightning came along, the latest USB (3.0) was still the ancient type A for larger devices and for portable devices the horrendous Micro-B 10-pin.
     
  21. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    New York City, NY
    #1921
    Keep in mind that USB 3.1 gen 1 is just (what used to be known as) USB 3, which maxes out at 5Gbps.

    USB 3.1 gen 2 maxes out at 10Gbps.
     
  22. box185 macrumors member

    box185

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    #1922
    Adding to this comment because it seems reasonable to me . . .

    Another piece of information from Sonnet's website under the Technical Notes header on the Tech Spec tab:

    2. macOS erroneously reports a 5Gbps connection when connected at 10Gbps.
     
  23. William Payne macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Location:
    Wanganui, New Zealand.
    #1923
    erroneously means mistakenly. Or miss-reading. Its a very vague statement, could mean that it says 5Gbps while actually running 10Gbps, or it could mean that it is only running at 5Gbps.
     
  24. zemaker macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    #1924
    So now after reading this thread I am not sure what to get.

    I need a card that will provide out of box USB 3.0 support without ejecting drives when Mac Pro is in sleep running High Sierra.
     
  25. abdyfranco macrumors newbie

    abdyfranco

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    #1925
    I want to buy a card with the same chipset that also includes SATA III, In fact I want buy this card: http://www.sybausa.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=177

    Do you think it will be compatible with macOS Sierra?
    Also, anyone knows if the ASMedia ASM1061 is bootable in mac?
     
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