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USB2 in powermacs... some ppl have it working!

Re: usb and firewire

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
My limited understanding is that USB uses your computer's processor to processinformation, while Firewire has its own built-in chipset.

That's why Firewire's more expensive and why in situations where a steady stream is necessary (video work) it is the preferred choice... - j
Click to expand...

This is true. USB requires more CPU-level processing of data, and is thus less reliable for high-bandwidth "streaming" operations. Of course, USB has its own "built-in chipset" too, but the USB architecture requires an OS driver to interpret USB signals as they come in, while the FireWire chipset handles basic IO all by itself.

This is, BTW, why you see a bit more push towards USB 2.0 on the marketplace:

1) It "looks" faster than FireWire (480Mbps vs 400Mbps), and in reality is "close enough" most of the time.

2) The device-side chips are cheaper because more processing is done on the host (computer) side. Saving $0.10 per device might not seem like a lot (heck, i for one would gladly pay a buck or two more for a Firewire port instead of USB 2.0!), but it adds up over millions of units ...
 
Re: USB 2.0

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Just get a card at CompUSA for $5.

here.

Interesting specs...

For MAC Users
Mac G3 required
OS 8.6 to 9.2 (USB 1.1 support only)
OS X 10.3 or greater (USB 2.0 support)
Available PCI slot
Click to expand...

Note that "x.0.3" is in the manufacturer-supplied blurb area, and "10.3" is in the CompUSA-supplied summary area. The manufacturer-supplied blurb is always more reliable, as the summary is based off the blurb and nothing else.

OS X has had USB 2.0 support for quite some time. Add-in PCI cards like those linked to above have been available practically since USB 2.0 debuted. Thus, OS-level support of USB 2 is hardly nes at all. The only news would be OS-level support of USB 2.0 on the motherboard, and/or USB 2.0 support on the motherboard (the latter is what we have here).
 
USB 2 vs FireWire, a few points of interst

First off, to the poster who says he is a photographer and says that he has no use for FireWire:
All of the professional digital cameras are using FireWire(IEEE-1394) not USB 2. check out the Canon EOS 1-D, 1-Ds, and the Nikon D1x and D1h. Their other pro level camers, the Canon 10D and Nikon D100 are using USB 1.1.
As for printers and scanners, Epson's top of the line consumer level printers and scanners are using FireWire with a couple of the mid-range using USB 2.
While some of the mid range digital cameras are starting to use USB 2, most people will not ever see a benefit over USB 1.1 because they are the ones touting USB 2 as cheaper and thus will also buy the the slower, less expensive flash memory, thus defeating the point of having USB 2 in their camera.

It would be great if Apple were to equip Macs with USB 2 because it would ease some of the transitions of switchers who are pro USB 2 and wouldn't hurt FireWire in any way.

As many have pointed out, FireWire is a faster IO protocol than USB 2 in real world tests, and thus will always be used for very large sustained transfer needs. And this isn't just limited to hard drives, optical drives and video cameras, but also includes pro digital still cameras, large format printers and scanners.

And to the person who mentioned that Apple jumped the gun with DVD-R while so many PCs are using DVD+R:
The DVD-R format was designed by Pioneer and approved by the DVD Forum, the same group that sets the standard for commersial DVD-video. DVD+R was designed by several PC manufacturers who wanted to jump on the DVD burning bandwagon but wanted to make money on the venture as opposed to having to pay the royalties to use DVD-R.
 
Re: USB 2 vs FireWire, a few points of interst

Originally posted by MacArtist
First off, to the poster who says he is a photographer and says that he has no use for FireWire:
All of the professional digital cameras are using FireWire(IEEE-1394) not USB 2. check out the Canon EOS 1-D, 1-Ds, and the Nikon D1x and D1h. Their other pro level camers, the Canon 10D and Nikon D100 are using USB 1.1.
Click to expand...

I am the person you reference and I have a Canon EOS-1D. I do not use the camera's Firewire interface because it is faster to pull the CF card out of the camera and use my USB 2.0 card reader. I cannot tell you why this is true, but I am not the only one to observe this. Apparently it is even true for the Nikon cameras because the person who recommended this owns a Nikon D1x.

I have seen several other people recommend doing this at www.dpreview.com but I don't know which cameras they have.

So for me (and at leave several other people I have seen), a Firewire interface is of no use. When I come home and transfer over a 100 images to my computer, my USB 2.0 CF card reader does the job considerably faster than my camera's Firewire interface. Why that is true is probably a question for a Canon engineer.
 
Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
unless you have a digital camera with a really large anount of high sized files, usb2 will not matter.
Click to expand...

...exactly why I bought the Orange board and USB2 media reader.
 
Re: USB 2 vs FireWire, a few points of interst

Originally posted by MacArtist
As many have pointed out, FireWire is a faster IO protocol than USB 2 in real world tests, and thus will always be used for very large sustained transfer needs. And this isn't just limited to hard drives, optical drives and video cameras, but also includes pro digital still cameras, large format printers and scanners.
Click to expand...

That is not true for optical drives and mini-DV video cameras. There is plenty of bandwidth headroom with both USB 2.0 and Firewire.

This is only true for cameras that do not need to write everything to flash and can operate in tethered mode. Otherwise, even the fastest CF cards still have speeds low enough that both USB 2.0 and Firewire provide way more than enough bandwidth.

Digital backs for medium format cameras will probably stick with Firewire because they have huge files and can operate in tethered mode. They would benefit from a Firewire interface and at $10K a piece (or more), you are not worried about the computer interface cost. :D
 
Originally posted by mangoman
...exactly why I bought the Orange board and USB2 media reader.
Click to expand...
I bough a firewire reader, why bother having to add extra hardware? And it works with my Powerbook as well.

Also, for people who don't have Powermacs, the firewire reader is the best choice.
 
Re: Re: USB 2 vs FireWire, a few points of interst

Originally posted by ktlx
I am the person you reference and I have a Canon EOS-1D. I do not use the camera's Firewire interface because it is faster to pull the CF card out of the camera and use my USB 2.0 card reader. I cannot tell you why this is true, but I am not the only one to observe this. Apparently it is even true for the Nikon cameras because the person who recommended this owns a Nikon D1x.
...
Click to expand...
Why is using a USB 2.0 or Firwire card reader faster? The answer is actually rather simple. some (all?) of the cameras slow down the transfer rate due to what the camera can handle for the transfer rate.

As noted previously (and elsewhere) I use a firewire based card reader which works on all firewire equipped Macs, as opposed to a USB 2 reader which only works on Powermacs where you can install a USB 2 card.
 
apple admitting usb 2.0

regarding the comment about why apple doesn't go ahead and announce usb 2.0...

i'm a slashdotter, like many of you are, and i saw in one of the comments that a pretty good reason might be that they have a whole bunch of usb 1.1 stuff in stock (motherboards, or maybe whole systems), and want to completely get rid of that before they announce that their powermacs have usb 2.0... sounds like a reasonable explanation to me...

but about the firewire 800... i'm waiting to get a 15" powerbook until they update the 15-inchers to include firewire 800 and airport extreme, as well as the DDR memory and ATA100 hd interface. the 12" is too small, and the 17" is too pricey... i've fallen in love with the 15" but it doesnt have those new features like the others do! do any of you know when they will add firewire 800 and that other stuff to the 15"?
 
I CRASHED MY NEW DUAL 1.42MAC!!!!!!!!!!!

i figured since i had the newest biggest badboy tower id be ok!!!! NOT!!!!!!after downloading the usb2 driver i went to restart and all i got was the grey screen and apple with a black block in the center!!!! it would not do anything past that point!!!! luckily right at startup the keyboard would let me eject the disc tray and i was able to put in the restore disk. i had to reload my software and put the old inside a folder. when i have time ill probably burn all my stuff and do a clean install on the hard drive. DUMB, DUMB AND DUMBER!!!!!!
 
i beg to differ

this is the insert for the article ( it appears that the drivers for the USB 2.0 chipset in the MDD 1.25 and 1.42 Ghz are updated and confirmed that they do work. ) isnt the mother board in both computers the same????
 
Re: i beg to differ

Originally posted by meateater
this is the insert for the article ( it appears that the drivers for the USB 2.0 chipset in the MDD 1.25 and 1.42 Ghz are updated and confirmed that they do work. ) isnt the mother board in both computers the same????
Click to expand...

Yes it's the same but from the results I have seen it doesn't matter. What I mean by that is it appears that with seemingly identical machines one will work with the drivers and the othere will not. It doesn't matter 1.25 or 1.42 it just seems to be quirks differing from computer to computer.
 
Re: I CRASHED MY NEW DUAL 1.42MAC!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by meateater
i figured since i had the newest biggest badboy tower id be ok!!!! NOT!!!!!!after downloading the usb2 driver i went to restart and all i got was the grey screen and apple with a black block in the center!!!! it would not do anything past that point!!!! luckily right at startup the keyboard would let me eject the disc tray and i was able to put in the restore disk. i had to reload my software and put the old inside a folder. when i have time ill probably burn all my stuff and do a clean install on the hard drive. DUMB, DUMB AND DUMBER!!!!!!
Click to expand...

The archive and install does install a completely clean system from what I know. I would not worry about reformating the drive though backing up is never a bad idea. Unless you have a hard drive corruption problem there is rarely a need to reformat in OSX.
 
software restore

my os still works fine but the previous system folder takes up about 1 gig of hard drive space.i still have 104gigs available so i probably wont reformat. the usb2 driver seems to be completely disabled. by the way, nice icon macbandit :D
 
Re: software restore

Originally posted by meateater
my os still works fine but the previous system folder takes up about 1 gig of hard drive space.i still have 104gigs available so i probably wont reformat. the usb2 driver seems to be completely disabled. by the way, nice icon macbandit :D
Click to expand...

You can delete your previous system now. Oh and thanks about the tar.
 
USB2 woes

Well I've scoured the web thoroughly and I can't find a Firewire SD memory card reader. There are many USB2 options for much faster transfers, but like owners of all non-USB2 macs, I won't be able to benefit from them.

Any chance of a FW-to-USB2 cable?
 
Re: USB2 woes

Originally posted by jacg
Well I've scoured the web thoroughly and I can't find a Firewire SD memory card reader. There are many USB2 options for much faster transfers, but like owners of all non-USB2 macs, I won't be able to benefit from them.

Any chance of a FW-to-USB2 cable?
Click to expand...

I have an SD to CompactFlash adapter... The SD card actually slots into the side of a CF card, and you can then use it wherever you would use a compactflash.

Not sure how fast it is - but it seems OK. I don't recognise the brand - bought it in Hiroshima for about $30 US
 
Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
there are rumors regarding the iPod and a possible usb2 to fw cable. i cant remember from where though.
Click to expand...
i would bet it would the other way around. it would be firewire to usb2.

iJon
 
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