Use of AI in the MR photography forum

[Lord Blackadder]

TL;DR
Worth creating a thread for purely AI generated images?

I think it's an idea worth discussing. Having one Photography thread where AI is either not used at all, or used only for non-generative post-processing tasks on the one hand, versus another space with no limit on AI-involvement.

There is a benefit to this separation, in that we are still learning how AI works and what its capabilities are - and the AI landscape is also changing rapidly. I'd like to know what people are doing with AI to get their results. That's the same step in image/art creation as talking about what gear you used to take a photo, or what kinds of (non-AI) postprocessing was done to get the final image. I don't see that as AI-skepticism, merely adding AI to the workflow transparently alongside everything else.

 

[arkitect]

I think it's an idea worth discussing. Having one Photography thread where AI is either not used at all, or used only for non-generative post-processing tasks on the one hand, versus another space with no limit on AI-involvement.

Yup. A thread where it is only AI. So not used as an adjunct to our Photography… Working Title: AI Generated Art

There is a benefit to this separation, in that we are still learning how AI works and what its capabilities are - and the AI landscape is also changing rapidly. I'd like to know what people are doing with AI to get their results.

Agree.

That's the same step in image/art creation as talking about what gear you used to take a photo, or what kinds of (non-AI) postprocessing was done to get the final image. I don't see that as AI-skepticism, merely adding AI to the workflow transparently alongside everything else.

Again, agree. 👍

 

[deep diver]

Or sit at a computer and tell it I want a picture of an iPhone underwater in the Seychelles. Then you can’t claim it as your own or even as photography!

At 3:00 on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[mtbdudex]

The AI bust is upon us, like the 2000 dot com bubble burst

Commentary: Say farewell to the AI bubble, and get ready for the crash — Los Angeles Times

The AI frenzy has been fueled by relentless hype, but the dud launched by OpenAI has its former enthusiasts wondering if they've been taken.

apple.news

 

[chown33]

As there is no thread for AI created images that I could find, would it be worth our while to create one — and if so, where?

Try the Picture Gallery forum:

Picture Gallery

post photos, pictures, videos, etc...

forums.macrumors.com

As I post this, I see threads for posting pictures of: Mac setups, pets, desktops, watches (trad only), last purchases, meals, beer, cars, fountain pens, and more. That's about as diverse a set of subjects as you could find, and I see no obvious problem if a thread for AI-generated pics is added.

This is just one moderator's personal suggestion. It may be overruled, but it's worth a shot.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Try the Picture Gallery forum:

Picture Gallery

post photos, pictures, videos, etc...

forums.macrumors.com

As I post this, I see threads for posting pictures of: Mac setups, pets, desktops, watches (trad only), last purchases, meals, beer, cars, fountain pens, and more. That's about as diverse a set of subjects as you could find, and I see no obvious problem if a thread for AI-generated pics is added.

This is just one moderator's personal suggestion. It may be overruled, but it's worth a shot.

Sounds sensible to me.

 

[mtbdudex]

As I was checking out the photos of the day, this one by [mention]dwrufus53 [/mention] struck me as interesting

I then noticed the author’s thumbnail, here it is bigger

And the movie I heard it in came to my thoughts , the very last Harry Potter one, this quote

 

[mollyc]

Thank you everyone for keeping the conversation going, and also drama free. 🙂 I've been busy the past week helping my daughter off to her second year of college so haven't had time to weigh in much further but have been reading along, but she has been dropped off at school now and I'm back with more free time.

I'm also really happy a mod chimed in!

Try the Picture Gallery forum:

Picture Gallery

post photos, pictures, videos, etc...

forums.macrumors.com

As I post this, I see threads for posting pictures of: Mac setups, pets, desktops, watches (trad only), last purchases, meals, beer, cars, fountain pens, and more. That's about as diverse a set of subjects as you could find, and I see no obvious problem if a thread for AI-generated pics is added.

This is just one moderator's personal suggestion. It may be overruled, but it's worth a shot.

If we wanted to formalize something, how would we go about that? I think the overall consensus is that no fully or partially generated photos should be posted in the photo forum. Is it possible to have one of the mods create an AI Image forum (or sub forum) so that we can direct anyone who comes along to post there? Several members in this thread already mentioned they have an interest in following that content anyway, so it might be nice to get those people a home to start discussing techniques, etc.

And then for the current photo forum we will allow typical (historical) editing done with AI tools to be posted (stuff like small fill, sharpening, noise reduction, etc.).

I think that is what most people here have voiced as their preference.

 

[Plutonius]

The sum of results in the poll exceed 100% ?

 

[mollyc]

The sum of results in the poll exceed 100% ?

people could vote for more than one option

 

[Plutonius]

people could vote for more than one option

You are correct. I forgot that.

 

[chown33]

Is it possible to have one of the mods create an AI Image forum (or sub forum) so that we can direct anyone who comes along to post there? Several members in this thread already mentioned they have an interest in following that content anyway, so it might be nice to get those people a home to start discussing techniques, etc.

Answering this particular item only:
1) Mods have no ability to create forums or sub-forums. An admin would need to do that, after reaching agreement with Arn and other admins.
2) For now, you can direct anyone to post in the Picture Gallery forum. All that's needed is for someone to start a thread there. A mod doesn't need to do it.

 

[Doctor Q]

The forum rules we currently have, prohibiting AI-generated text in most cases, do not apply to AI-generated or AI-enhanced images. Unless other forum rules are violated, they are allowed. Even if we had rules about where AI-generated images could be used, they would not be practical to enforce, because such images can't easily be identified. Given the different degrees to which AI can be used with photographs, it's unlikely that there will be a single agreed-upon definition of what constitutes AI for images.

As chown33 mentioned above, forum members can start and participate in threads with different stated purposes involving AI. For example, a thread might be intended for certain types of AI images or discussion about them. This applies not just to the Photography forum but to all forums, since AI can be used in graphics, video, writing, business, and so on.

Threads with guidelines stated by the OP operate on the honor system, requiring cooperation among users to be successful. Threads with these kinds of community-established purposes have worked well in other cases, even though the moderators don't enforce guidelines created by thread starters. It is good netiquette for people who post AI-enhanced photos to identify them as such.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Threads with guidelines stated by the OP operate on the honor system, requiring cooperation among users to be successful. Threads with these kinds of community-established purposes have worked well in other cases, even though the moderators don't enforce guidelines created by thread starters. It is good netiquette for people who post AI-enhanced photos to identify them as such.

A very important reminder. I support the idea of splitting out image threads to separate AI-generated images from traditional photography, but we'd all need to accept that we cannot guarantee nobody will break the rules, nor can the mods be expected to enforce them.

 

[jz0309]

The forum rules we currently have, prohibiting AI-generated text in most cases, do not apply to AI-generated or AI-enhanced images. Unless other forum rules are violated, they are allowed. Even if we had rules about where AI-generated images could be used, they would not be practical to enforce, because such images can't easily be identified. Given the different degrees to which AI can be used with photographs, it's unlikely that there will be a single agreed-upon definition of what constitutes AI for images.

As chown33 mentioned above, forum members can start and participate in threads with different stated purposes involving AI. For example, a thread might be intended for certain types of AI images or discussion about them. This applies not just to the Photography forum but to all forums, since AI can be used in graphics, video, writing, business, and so on.

Threads with guidelines stated by the OP operate on the honor system, requiring cooperation among users to be successful. Threads with these kinds of community-established purposes have worked well in other cases, even though the moderators don't enforce guidelines created by thread starters. It is good netiquette for people who post AI-enhanced photos to identify them as such.

ok then, back to "honor system" as outlined by @Lord Blackadder

Question: if/when forum rules change - how do we as users get notified or made aware? I for one do not recall whether to not the "AI-generated text" rules existed when I Joined or it was added later. Just curious ...

 

[Doctor Q]

ok then, back to "honor system" as outlined by @Lord Blackadder

Question: if/when forum rules change - how do we as users get notified or made aware? I for one do not recall whether to not the "AI-generated text" rules existed when I Joined or it was added later. Just curious ...

Since the MacRumors.com Help Center doesn't notify anyone of changes, you probably won't know if we added a rule against, say, disparaging lemurs. If we do, and you dare to post something bad about lemurs, then you'll get a reminder about it, nothing more serious than that. It's still unfortunate for the poor lemur's feelings, of course.

It's really the same thing for users who never read the rules in the first place. The first notice is a reminder that a rule exists.

In some cases, we'll post a notice about a new or changed forum rule, often making the thread sticky. But that's still no guarantee that everyone will see it.

 

[deep diver]

ok then, back to "honor system" as outlined by @Lord Blackadder

Question: if/when forum rules change - how do we as users get notified or made aware? I for one do not recall whether to not the "AI-generated text" rules existed when I Joined or it was added later. Just curious ...

For rules that are specific to a particular forum (such as what is being discussed here) they are generally discussed by the group in the forum and then the final agreement is posted. It is a cooperative and consensus driven process.

 

[mollyc]

For rules that are specific to a particular forum (such as what is being discussed here) they are generally discussed by the group in the forum and then the final agreement is posted. It is a cooperative and consensus driven process.

Yes, I think at this point we pretty much have our answer, and if someone who hasn't read this thread comes in and posts an AI image, we can ask them to remove it and share it in the Picture Gallery forum as outlined by Chown in post 87.

I don't think it would hurt to add a bit of language to the challenge and POTD threads at the beginning of each thread either.

 

[jz0309]

For rules that are specific to a particular forum (such as what is being discussed here) they are generally discussed by the group in the forum and then the final agreement is posted. It is a cooperative and consensus driven process.

no, that is not what I read in @Doctor Q 's post 88. There are no "forum-specific" rules. There are forum rules that apply across all (sub-)forums ...
There is no rule that prevents people from posting AI-generated images in any forum today.

Now, when it comes to a particular thread, that is a different story, and I totally agree with what @mollyc says in #93.

Yes, I think at this point we pretty much have our answer, and if someone who hasn't read this thread comes in and posts an AI image, we can ask them to remove it and share it in the Picture Gallery forum as outlined by Chown in post 87.

I don't think it would hurt to add a bit of language to the challenge and POTD threads at the beginning of each thread either.

yes, the language today says "... should be your own work ...", instead it should say something like "... the photo needs to be taken by the poster with a camera"

 

[deep diver]

Now, when it comes to a particular thread, that is a different story, and I totally agree with what @mollyc says in #93.

Point taken. I misspoke and it is a significant difference.

 

[mollyc]

yes, the language today says "... should be your own work ...", instead it should say something like "... the photo needs to be taken by the poster with a camera"

I think "No AI generated imagery" is succint and to the point. But I also think we need to leave the "should be your own work" part because we have had people post photos taken by others.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think "No AI generated imagery" is succint and to the point. But I also think we need to leave the "should be your own work" part because we have had people post photos taken by others.

Agreed.

 

[mtbdudex]

Just a iPhone 14 Pro taken at nautical twilight yesterday. Not pure hand held, rather resting on my east facing porch rail. Prior I’d have to get my canon DSLR on tripod, capture it, then manual post process in photo desktop app , now whatever Apple uses suffices for a smartphone quickie.
Not AI generated per say as I composed it and took it, not sure if AI algorithm used by Apple photos

 

[mollyc]

I don't think we can really exclude phone photos that have automatic AI processing. You are still taking and composing the photo with a camera and not using a prompt generator to create some sort of artificial image.

 

[goldmac2006]

I think "No AI generated imagery" is succint and to the point. But I also think we need to leave the "should be your own work" part because we have had people post photos taken by others.

When I fixed the contest link list as requested by a contest creator last time I had amended the first rule to include this change already, due to this ongoing issue.