Utah's Contact Tracing App Doesn't Use Apple's Exposure Notification API, Opts for Less Private GPS-Focused Approach

[mariusignorello]

This government stubbornness is no different than a developer like Facebook trying to circumvent Apple-approved APIs that work well.

When will they learn?
Oh, they won’t. They want data for reasons beyond COVID.

Use Apple’s reliable and privacy conscious solution or don’t bother.

 

[Analog Kid]

And your post, without some evidence to support it, is meaningless. Everyone is using the same silicon (from a couple of vendor choices) and the same satellites.

It was just a snide comment with a hint of truth. Since you took it seriously though, I feel I need to support my assertion, at least a little... It’s possible that all smartphone GPS is garbage, but my experience is limited to iOS. I do know that the silicon is only one contributor to the performance though— the antenna and interference environment are crucial. Anecdotally, I believe the GPS in my iPhone 5 outperformed my iPhone X. I don’t know what happened in between, but I‘m guessing they set the bar at “good enough” for whatever use case they had in mind and compromised it away.

In truth, of all the radios in the phone, the GPS is probably the least scrutinized (I can’t find any published testing as I could on cellular or WiFi), and with map matching and aiding from WiFi and cellular you can compensate for pretty atrocious positioning performance, but I don’t remember having to carefully position my phone in the car to get myself positioned on the right street so often with the 5.

 

[mariusignorello]

It's interesting that so many comments are heaping most of the blame on Utah's government and ignoring the fact that a private company wanted to sell their inferior product for taxpayer dollars. People always cut private companies way too much slack when it comes to an intent to rip off the public.

The government could’ve easily rejected the sales proposal and developed their own thing. They chose to outsource the app and they got a subpar product. It is a two way transaction, after all.

 

[planteater]

This decision will literally kill people.

Mindless hyperbole.

 

[@Brett]

I think the United States can be summed up as Too many cooks. I realise each state is governed by themselves pretty much but a national approach is needed like we did in Australia. All the states got on board with the federal government and got things done. Granted the CovidSafe app has its floors but once updated it is one app not many apps sending data to who knows where. Stay safe everyone.

 

[H3LL5P4WN]

No one ever accused Utah of being smart.

 

[DoctorTech]

Given that apps like this are pretty much worthless unless the majority of people are using them (this is also one of the reasons why Apple Tags will be 1,000 times better than Tile) how long do you think they are going to remain voluntary? I can easily see states like Michigan, Illinois and/or California mandating the use of apps like this as a condition for being allowed to go back to work (or maybe even to leave your house).

 

[erikdonohoo]

I live in Utah. They didn't "reject" apple and google. They are trying to be ahead of the curve and got this app out way sooner than apple or google could get their APIs out. Is it perfect? no, but its better than what most states have right now which is nothing. And don't forget, people are going to have to update their devices to get these new APIs from Apple and Google, and we know how easy it is to get OS updates on an Android device.

 

[TechieGeek]

Want to make our voices heard? Download the Healthy Together app on the app store, then leave a 1-star rating, with a comment that this app does NOT respect privacy, and should implement the API that Apple and Google built.

App Store link: https://apps.apple.com/app/id1507570835

 

[wbeasley]

Since the latest infection fatality rate studies demonstrate that 99.5% of us will survive an infection, what does your spreadsheet show as the absolute number who will die from Utah choosing one app or another?

which figures are you looking at?

of cleared cases in the US, the DEATH rate is currently 22%.

you have over 1,000,000 still active cases.
given that, the next few weeks as cases clear up could be shocking.
you want to hope they get better at treating people...

check Worldometer site to see data.

 

[seenett]

So Utah chooses to use a live, functioning platform instead of an unavailable unreleased beta that is "coming soon"? I don't see the issue.

 

[wbeasley]

The code an the way it works has been explained. It is Bluetooth only, so you have no GPS in Apple or Android versions. It won't accept GPS data. It works on Bluetooth. So relative location only. There is no idea, you have tokens, there is a new encrypted token that is you every day. You can't tell from looking at it. The message comes only to the phone owner. It tells you YOU were exposed. I presume the best thing there is to offer you a test. During the test, they would interview you. The worst punishment out of this is the disease. It is in all of our interests to be interviewed so we can figure out every one. To put them in quarantine for 14 days. They can monitor your systems. You fever. I'm sorry if people see something sinister about public health, but I think that's really against all of our interests.

if it is Bluetooth only, why the app screen shots show maps with local testing stations? That would be because it uses GPS to pinpoint your location...

Not saying that isn't good functionality. But does open the app to claims of tracking you.

 

[StandingGoose]

if it is Bluetooth only, why the app screen shots show maps with local testing stations?

Perhaps you're confusing the existing Search functionality in Apple Maps, which pops up a search card with "Search Nearby" that has "COVID-19 Testing" right at the top. Tap that, and it shows testing sites. That has nothing to do with the new API (not app) that Apple/Google are releasing.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

I live in Utah. They didn't "reject" apple and google. They are trying to be ahead of the curve and got this app out way sooner than apple or google could get their APIs out. Is it perfect? no, but its better than what most states have right now which is nothing. And don't forget, people are going to have to update their devices to get these new APIs from Apple and Google, and we know how easy it is to get OS updates on an Android device.

iOS updates roll out way faster than Android, but even Android is rolling this out through Google Play Services, if I understand correctly, meaning that most phones get it automatically without updating.

 

[TechieGeek]

iOS updates roll out way faster than Android, but even Android is rolling this out through Google Play Services, if I understand correctly, meaning that most phones get it automatically without updating.

Precisely correct.

People need to educate themselves before spreading misinformation.

To someone above saying they don’t collect location info: it’s literally in “Healthy Together”’s privacy policy that they collect and store location information...

 

[PsykX]

Since the latest infection fatality rate studies demonstrate that 99.5% of us will survive an infection, what does your spreadsheet show as the absolute number who will die from Utah choosing one app or another?

Would be interested to read this "study" - because if you look at the numbers reported so far, 85% of the infected people survive. The curve indicates that it should reach around 90%. And most developed countries who do well confirm this so far.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Considering Utah is a state that leans conservative, which seem to be the most against giving up their freedom and data to "big government", I'm kind of surprised they went the more intrusive route.

These may be the fruits of massive lobbying. It’s the case whenever things don’t make sense.

 

[SoGood]

Lack of unified approach towards COVID-19 pandemic will just continue to hurt the US and Americans at large.

 

[mzeb]

My preference is the Apple/Google system as a privacy and security expert but...

Consider that both iOS and Android are locked down enough that Apple and Google are literally strong-arming governments onto this platform. I can make an argument that most governments do not understand technology enough to make the right call here but to have operating systems that are so locked down that they governments literally can't develop the software they'd like is a concern.

 

[ajfahey]

Another experiment for relearning the law of dangerous unintended consequences. Isn't history taught in schools anymore? Is Orwell not standard fare in english classes?

 

[incoherent_1]

Utah “rejects” an option that isn’t complete and doesn’t yet exist?

Clickbait at its finest.

 

[Cayden]

It was just a snide comment with a hint of truth. Since you took it seriously though, I feel I need to support my assertion, at least a little... It’s possible that all smartphone GPS is garbage, but my experience is limited to iOS. I do know that the silicon is only one contributor to the performance though— the antenna and interference environment are crucial. Anecdotally, I believe the GPS in my iPhone 5 outperformed my iPhone X. I don’t know what happened in between, but I‘m guessing they set the bar at “good enough” for whatever use case they had in mind and compromised it away.

In truth, of all the radios in the phone, the GPS is probably the least scrutinized (I can’t find any published testing as I could on cellular or WiFi), and with map matching and aiding from WiFi and cellular you can compensate for pretty atrocious positioning performance, but I don’t remember having to carefully position my phone in the car to get myself positioned on the right street so often with the 5.

While I realize user experiences will be different depending on environment (especially altitude and the number of buildings around you), my experiences with the newer phones has been the opposite of yours. In my previous job, I used combinations of multiple android devices (including the pixel 3), a couple different iPhones (6 and XS), and a GPS antenna to get GPS data for certain tests, and always found the XS to most closely match the reading from the GPS antenna and when viewed visually on Google Earth. Outdoors, I could easily get within 1-2 ft of accuracy, while indoors this range increased to around 10-15 ft. Again, I know this will differ for different devices and environments, but in my case the newer iPhone always outperformed all the other devices.

 

[ani4ani]

It’s like the old adage, the best camera available is the one your carrying. Plenty of people criticising states and governments for going their own way, but remember some of these apps in various guises have been around for months; they are progressing with what they can use now; nothing precludes them switching if something “better” comes along later. Germany has developed their own app but plan to swap to the Apple / Google app if it and when it comes along.

As for the whole privacy v life argument, I’ll take life first and then I might get the opportunity to worry about privacy.

 

[itsmilo]

lol gonna be so useful when only one state uses it but on the other hand it’s Utah ... maybe not as many people are traveling in and out as frequently ... either way that data set is gonna be too small to mean anything

 

[Xofer]

All privacy issues aside, we are talking of an app that is already available “rejecting” an API that is not yet available. Maybe they just wanted to get something functional out of the door as fast as possible.