Verizon iPhone More Likely When 4G Networks Arrive in 2010

[diamond.g]

Apple's profit margins?

Because a CDMA radio is going to completely destroy it?

Verizon's LTE rollout will be starting in a year or two, making a non-exclusive iPhone 4G possible (and rather likely). Now, whether or not a Verizon customer would WANT a iPhone 4G is another issue because if Apple doesn't put in CDMA radios, there's no fallback network or voice capability (Verizon stated they would be using LTE for data). That and all the LTE networks need to be built from scratch. So so much for Verizon's "superior network".

The funny part about that is AT&T isn't even going to get started with LTE until the end of next year, while Verizon is going to be well on their way towards it.

I don't think Apple is going to do a Verizon LTE phone. Especially if they don't want to make a non-GSM version. They would probably do an AT&T version, but it shouldn't be expected until at least 2011 or 2012.

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

The funny part about that is AT&T isn't even going to get started with LTE until the end of next year, while Verizon is going to be well on their way towards it.

I don't think Apple is going to do a Verizon LTE phone. Especially if they don't want to make a non-GSM version. They would probably do an AT&T version, but it shouldn't be expected until at least 2011 or 2012.

Indeed, Verizon's going to have about a one year lead according to both companies' roadmaps.

As for compatibility, I think Verizon and AT&T are using the 700 band for LTE, so fallback network aside, a 4G iPhone would work on Verizon (unless Verizon doesn't adopt SIM cards, which I think they would adopt cuz I'm sure Vodafone will make them).

 

[kdarling]

Even if, by some miracle, ATT and Verizon used compatible hardware and software...

...and that implies a fully deployed network with no need for GSM/CDMA fallback, plus the allowance of voice over LTE...

...then I'd still bet they'll each lock the phones they sell to their own networks.

I cannot imagine ATT and Verizon making it too easy for users to switch back and forth. Unless Congress forces the issue, that is.

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

Even if, by some miracle, ATT and Verizon used compatible hardware and software...

...and that implies a fully deployed network with no need for GSM/CDMA fallback, plus the allowance of voice over LTE...

...then I'd still bet they'll each lock the phones they sell to their own networks.

I cannot imagine ATT and Verizon making it too easy for users to switch back and forth. Unless Congress forces the issue, that is.

How is there such an implication? Verizon already stated that LTE would be for data while CDMA2000/EV-DO would be kept for voice. I'm pretty sure AT&T is going to be doing the same, using LTE for data and GSM/WCDMA for voice. Given that LTE/WCDMA is the more global standard, I'm sure Apple would have a preference for developing a LTE/UTMS iPhone (especially considering the amount of CDMA carriers in other countries currently deploying WCDMA networks.

Now, AT&T doesn't really need to have the iPhone locked into their network (or, at least, I don't really see the point, subsidy aside); currently the only other GSM carrier is T-Mobile and since they use their own 3G network iPhone users that jailbreak are stuck with GSM/EDGE. Once 4G networks are deployed, the other 4G option, Verizon, can't offer voice services. Unless Apple makes an iPhone with a CDMA radio, AT&T still wins since they're the most compatible. Even if Congress forced the dissolution of exclusitivity contracts (which would be bad for consumers unless they forced rates to be lower), for those technical reasons (and assumed circumstances), AT&T would probably still get the bulk of iPhone users.

 

[dave4122]

I still thinks its possible to make a iphone for both CDMA and GSM that's how it is with all the other phone manufactures same phone just different names.

look at the new blackberry tour for verizon Band/mode: GSM 850/900/1800/1900 / UMTS 2100 / CDMA2000 1X 800/1900 ships with a sim card for world roaming calls of course it is possible.

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

I still thinks its possible to make a iphone for both CDMA and GSM that's how it is with all the other phone manufactures same phone just different names.

look at the new blackberry tour for verizon Band/mode: GSM 850/900/1800/1900 / UMTS 2100 / CDMA2000 1X 800/1900 ships with a sim card for world roaming calls of course it is possible.

Question here isn't if Apple can, it's if Apple wants to.

As for Blackberries, the Tour replaces the Curve for CDMA carriers. GSM carriers get the Javelin Curve because they don't need CDMA radios in their phones; CDMA carriers need the GSM radios in order to offer their corporate customers the ability to roam internationally, something that GSM carriers can inherently offer. Instead of just having all carriers sell the Tour, Blackberry went and made separate products for different carriers. Now, Blackberry phones have a larger adoption rate especially in the corporate market. Apple just seems keen on targeting the general masses. Does Apple really need to make a CDMA iPhone? Does Apple want to, especially when Canadian and Australian carriers are launching HSPA networks?

 

[kdarling]

How is there such an implication? Verizon already stated that LTE would be for data while CDMA2000/EV-DO would be kept for voice.

You suggested that, "a 4G iPhone would work on Verizon".

I'm suggesting that neither ATT nor Verizon would want easy interchangeabilty.

Now, AT&T doesn't really need to have the iPhone locked into their network (or, at least, I don't really see the point, subsidy aside); currently the only other GSM carrier is T-Mobile and since they use their own 3G network iPhone users that jailbreak are stuck with GSM/EDGE.

There's no point to the current iPhone being locked to ATT, but it is.

Once 4G networks are deployed, the other 4G option, Verizon, can't offer voice services.

If I understand your argument, it's that you think Apple would still only make a LTE / GSM fallback phone?

Okay, but as for the US market, are you assuming that no voice over LTE will be supported? Even though both ATT and Verizon will prefer to continue to use their old GSM/CDMA setups for voice, nothing prevents either from having an LTE only voice/data phone once their 4G networks are finished.

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

You suggested that, "a 4G iPhone would work on Verizon".

I'm suggesting that neither ATT nor Verizon would want easy interchangeabilty.

Well of course they wouldn't, but if Congress gets their way, they're going to have to comply. Although AT&T and T-Mobile have complete interchangeability and that's only become a thorn in AT&T's side with the iPhone.

If I understand your argument, it's that you think Apple would still only make a LTE / GSM fallback phone?

Okay, but as for the US market, are you assuming that no voice over LTE will be supported? Even though both ATT and Verizon will prefer to continue to use their old GSM/CDMA setups for voice, nothing prevents either from having an LTE only voice/data phone once their 4G networks are finished.

Considering that, once LTE begins deployment, Verizon is going to be among the minute few that have no UTMS fallback, I don't think Apple will see fit to go out of their way to support Verizon.

Nothing prevents them from relying solely on LTE, yes, but I'm just basing what I'm saying on what ATT and VZW executives have said. At least in the short-term (until LTE finishes deployment and maturation), there's not going to be any voice LTE (again, what I gather from what's been said). So you're looking at a good 5 years (guesstimating here) at least where voice is still being relegated to 2G and 3G technologies.

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

Just wanted to update this with something from Gizmodo, Verizon has stated that all Verizon phones will only have the Verizon app store. Which basically means until Verizon gives up on that idea, no iPhone for Verizon.

http://gizmodo.com/5313854/verizon-phones-will-have-verizons-app-store-no-one-elses

 

[kdarling]

Just wanted to update this with something from Gizmodo, Verizon has stated that all Verizon phones will only have the Verizon app store. Which basically means until Verizon gives up on that idea, no iPhone for Verizon.

Nope, that is NOT what it means. You have to read the base article.

All it says is that Verizon will include only their own store as a default.

If a user wants to download from a different store, they'd have to go to that other store on their own. Big whoop. That's what most Verizon smarpthone users do now.

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

Nope, that is NOT what it means. You have to read the base article.

All it says is that Verizon will include only their own store as a default.

If a user wants to download from a different store, they'd have to go to that other store on their own. Big whoop. That's what most Verizon smarpthone users do now.

The problem isn't on the consumer's end. The problem is Apple and Verizon both wanting control. Apple's not going to want to let their app store be the optional download, they want their app store to be THE app store on the iPhone.