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I HOPE THIS IS A JOKE.

Verizon and Sprint SUCK!
They are CDMA Networks. WHY would a prestigeous company like Apple want to partner with a crappy CDMA-based cell carrier? Verizon and Sprint are the absolute worst. The reason the iPhone is on AT&T is because it is the only network suitable to handle the demands of the iPhone.

And for all of you people who have reception issues, get out of the 2% area that AT&T hasn't reached YET and move to a bigger better city like Philly who has absolutely no reception loss. I have no problems with my iPhone. EVER.
So stop complaining. You don't need an iPhone if you're going to moan about it.

For every person like you that has great success with AT&T, there's someone like me who had horrible experiences with AT&T reception. From Seattle to LA to NJ to NY to Orlando to Portland, Maine to Boston.

I had to use my damn personal phone from T-Mobile for business calls, because my various crappy AT&T phones never got above 1 or 2 bars. Same goes for the Chicago Loop (where I was based).

Personal anecdote? Yup. Just like yours is. But it does prove that AT&T ain't always what it's cracked up to be.
 
Well at least you can still make phone calls with the phone you're stuck with, even if it isn't made by Apple. :(

But I only want to have one phone :rolleyes: ATT must be the only network that doesn't work out here. US Cellular and Verizon both have great coverage. My wife's Kindle gets 5 bars of 3G too, (not sure whose network that is)

So do you guys all think verizon is going to take ages to deploy 4G, so even if there was a verizon iPhone I wouldn't be any better off...
 
Hell Yeah!

:apple:bring it on verizon... i cant wait:D:D:D! As much as i admire the iphone i refuse to go to ATT and get crappy service and be over charged.. eww if tmobile got it it wouldnt be that bad too but i currently have verizon and i love the service and its even better with the 5/10 friends and family (tmobiles fav five)

How is spirnt even still in bussiness:confused:, they suck, and we all know that the iphone is what keeping ATT a float!
 
:apple:bring it on verizon... i cant wait:D:D:D! As much as i admire the iphone i refuse to go to ATT and get crappy service and be over charged.. eww if tmobile got it it wouldnt be that bad too but i currently have verizon and i love the service and its even better with the 5/10 friends and family (tmobiles fav five)

How is spirnt even still in bussiness:confused:, they suck, and we all know that the iphone is what keeping ATT a float!

i really hope it comes to verizon as well...hopefully they won't cripple it :rolleyes:

although I am really interested to see how sprint's palm pre does
 
.hopefully they won't cripple it :rolleyes:

Me and you both.The BB Storm that I have is crippled as far as wifi goes.I will give BB one thing,they have push mail that works a treat,and the "business end" of it is great,but outside of that the phone is complete ****....and yes BB fans I have a leaked OS installed .113 to be exact.

You iphone guys would get a real laugh at the crappy youtube video playback you get with the youtube app with RIM. I have an ipod touch,and it makes RIMs version look like p$ss.

The up side is I have 3G no matter where I go,yes,even in some podunk little town with less than 300 population,I still get 3G,but I can go to Clarksville Tennessee with a military base and a major college and I'm back on the EDGE network with my LG AT&T phone that is a 3G phone....The edge network was top notch circa 2005!!!

Don't get me wrong though,I'm not a Verizon fanboi by any streth,but when I pay for a service I would like to be able to use it.The crazy part is AT&T is headquartered in Nashville,but still they lag behind with 3G.Don't believe they suck? Just pull up the 3G map of the US and get a hard laugh.
 
I am with you. I like AT&T better!

+1 Ever since I switched to ATT, I stopped getting dropped calls. I drive over the Pali and through the tunnel and still don't drop my calls. They would always drop with my previous carriers (Sprint was the worst offender). Of course, this is in Hawaii. Things are often different out here. I really like my experience with ATT so far, though. No reason to change at all. :)
 
I welcome the news, though I wish they'd be on board when the new iphone arrives this summer. I'm ready to get one, but really hesitate signing up with att, which I can attest to having LOUSY reception in my region (upper eastern shore, Maryland).
 
Wow, you Americans gotta be the most tolerant people on earth when it comes to cell phones.

Incompatible networks, phones with carrier exclusivity, phones being locked, dropped calls?

I guess we're pretty lucky in Europe, because when I buy a phone I go to an electronics outlet, pay full price for any phone, and then chose a carrier I wan't, and any price plan i wan't, should i want to switch carrier or phone? Simply pop out the sim card and put it in the next phone.

And we don't have to endure locked versions of phones we're you can't use bluetooth, or anything like that.

That GSM vs. CDMA battle seems so annoying. In Sweden all carriers use GSM for 2G and WCDMA with HSDPA for 3G (current theoretical maximum speed is 14,4 mbit/s and will be 21,6 mbit/s by the end of the summer) and all carriers will be using LTE for 4G.

Now a few of the biggest carriers here are teaming up, buidling a unified LTE network and unifying their GSM networks for phones to fall back on. which hopefully will give us a mobile broadband solution worthy of replacing the wired ones.


Everything here is this simple except for the iphone, which you can only buy "American style" from Telia (used to be the public utility company responsible for telecommunications in sweden, like AT&T in th US)
 
Wow, you Americans gotta be the most tolerant people on earth when it comes to cell phones.

Incompatible networks, phones with carrier exclusivity, phones being locked, dropped calls?

I guess we're pretty lucky in Europe, because when I buy a phone I go to an electronics outlet, pay full price for any phone, and then chose a carrier I wan't, and any price plan i wan't, should i want to switch carrier or phone? Simply pop out the sim card and put it in the next phone.

And we don't have to endure locked versions of phones we're you can't use bluetooth, or anything like that.

That GSM vs. CDMA battle seems so annoying. In Sweden all carriers use GSM for 2G and WCDMA with HSDPA for 3G (current theoretical maximum speed is 14,4 mbit/s and will be 21,6 mbit/s by the end of the summer) and all carriers will be using LTE for 4G.

Now a few of the biggest carriers here are teaming up, buidling a unified LTE network and unifying their GSM networks for phones to fall back on. which hopefully will give us a mobile broadband solution worthy of replacing the wired ones.


Everything here is this simple except for the iphone, which you can only buy "American style" from Telia (used to be the public utility company responsible for telecommunications in sweden, like AT&T in th US)

Americans are tolerant of the system because it's just the way American Capitalism works.

That said AT&T, even if they didn't have an exclusivity contract extended, would still have de facto exclusivity until LTE is rolled out anyway because of T-Mobile's choice of wonky frequencies for 3G (although GSM/EDGE would still work fine) and everyone else' complete incompatibility with GSM/WCDMA.
 
That simply isn't true. In fact, there's no compelling reason to do it at all.

Really? You mean millions more in unit sales from Verizon, Sprint, and international CDMA carriers isn't a compelling reason? Go look at the analysts data from customer surverys where a significant percentage of wireless users said they were interested in purchasing an iPhone --- and many claimed they were simply waiting for it to be available on their network provider.

... and Apple isn't anywhere near GSM saturation such that the opportunity cost of developing a CDMA version would be worth more than investing that same amount in improving availability of existing models.

Speaking solely for the American situation, that is completely incorrect. Use the CDMA iPhone resources for "Improving availability"?? How exactly would that work? The only other major GSM carrier is Tmobile, and they don't have even a nationwide 3G network (not to mention it uses 1700mhz spectrum which the iPhone doesn't support.) iPhone sales on AT&T are going to stall at some point, and the only way to find major growth in the United States will be availability on Verizon and Sprint, who combined have most of the other cellphone subscribers in the USA.


When LTE comes around and a sizable network exists, Verizon may well be a prime candidate for an iPhone. It won't be able to fall back on CDMA, but it wouldn't stop iPhone adoption, either, assuming Verizon got the timing right and/or arranged for roaming agreements for GSM fallback.

Why is Verizon not a "prime candidate" right now? LTE is not going to be in widespread use for at least 18+ months at a minimum, and even when it is being used the phones will almost certainly use a CDMA radio as fallback.
If this is the case, then Apple would do well to get a head start on CDMA network engineering/testing.


Spoken with true ignorance of what's involved in a "relatively simple fix".
...All of it is doable, but it is much more common for something not to be worthwhile practically, technologically, economically, and logistically than people commonly insist.

Actually, I'm quite aware of the technical challenges it would require, but my point remains. Based on the 100 million CDMA users in the United States alone (which is easily the largest market for the iPhone based on its popularity), it should be well worth the investment -- not even counting
the hundreds of millions more CDMA users internationally. Nearly every other International phone manufacturer makes models for both CDMA and GSM networks, and some use make universal models which use a combined chipset. Surely Apple is capable of managing the same for when they only have to worry about ONE product model.


When Apple runs out of room in the 3.4 billion GSM user category, they can worry about picking up a few million in the CDMA dead-end.

You are missing the point. Although GSM is far more popular, billions of those users are in the developing world where the iPhone is far from affordable, and hundreds of millions more are in countries where the iPhone has not done very well.

Regardless, just the CDMA subscribers in North America easily justifies the expense and effort of creating a CDMA iPhone or a universal GSM/CDMA iPhone. North America alone over 100 millions CDMA subscribers and particularly the United States has been vastly more receptive to the iPhone than all the other countries in the world.

Again, the AT&T iPhone market is going to be saturated, as many will NOT be switching to their network just for the device. The only way to grow is to tap into the millions of USA/Canadian CDMA subscribers that are just waiting for an iPhone to be available on their network.

Do you honestly think that the revenue from an easy 3-8 million CDMA iPhone sales over 12-18 months, including revenue from the App store, and the potential to lockin many new users into the iPhone/iTunes ecosystem is not worth the development costs of a CDMA iPhone? Particularly when they are no doubt going to end up making an LTE iPhone that falls back on CDMA in the future anyways?
 
Just to set the record straight:

According to www.gsm.org:

AT&T has 850/1900 GSM and 850/1900 WCDMA/HSDPA.
T-Mobile has ONLY 1900 GSM and 1700/2100 WCDMA/HSDPA.

For example: in most of the EU, the WCDMA networks are operating on 2100mhz.

My point as a Spaniard: go GSM or WCDMA, as the rest of the world has it as their standard for wireless communications.
 
North America alone over 100 millions CDMA subscribers ...

Over 148 million CDMA subscribers in North America.

... and particularly the United States has been vastly more receptive to the iPhone than all the other countries in the world.

Yep, about half of all 3G iPhones have been sold in the US. The other half is scattered among all its other countries.
 
Besides reading this long thread, I have no clue which network will do what, but I do know that AT&T only covers about 20% of my county, and that does not work for me.

I still have to use Alltel or whatever they call themselves now, and would like to have an iPhone.

So whatever they could make work here, I would buy an iPhone then, but not until then.
 
Over 148 million CDMA subscribers in North America.

Yep, about half of all 3G iPhones have been sold in the US. The other half is scattered among all its other countries.

Thanks for the numbers... they just further make my point that this other guy is crazy when he says there is no compelling reason for making a CDMA iPhone... :confused:
I would be VERY surprised if Apple continued this exclusivity BS for any longer than the original contract specified. In fact, I'm surprised and very disappointed that it has taken this long! Surely they knew from the start how limiting a single carrier would be... They should have kept the agreement no longer than 18 or 24 months
 
Thanks for the numbers... they just further make my point that this other guy is crazy when he says there is no compelling reason for making a CDMA iPhone... :confused:
I would be VERY surprised if Apple continued this exclusivity BS for any longer than the original contract specified. In fact, I'm surprised and very disappointed that it has taken this long! Surely they knew from the start how limiting a single carrier would be... They should have kept the agreement no longer than 18 or 24 months

i agree with you. Even if the iPhone gets on Verizon's current 3g network, I can see tons of new 3g reliant features being implemented on the iphone such as video conferencing and such that isn't really possible with AT&T's spotty 3g network.

I just hope verizon will be willing to let apple call the shots :rolleyes:
 
Than when can see the VZ navigator on the iphone a true mobile GPS none this goolge map crap.:)
 
Verizon on the iPhone will never happen. Apple won't allow Verizon to cripple their phone (or steve more accurately). Verizon won't take part in the apple business model for the iphone. A CDMA phone would still need to be made. Not to mention Verizon was proud not to have the iPhone.
 
Not to mention Verizon was proud not to have the iPhone.


Oh yeah any verizon agent will really look down their nose at you if you mention the iPhone. One guy was very proud to tell me "we turned them down before and we'll turn them down again because they won't be ready for the [4g] network"

Then he told me the reason I couldn't figure out how to use the BB Storm just picking it up was that it was so much more sophisticated and had so many more features.
 
Really? You mean millions more in unit sales from Verizon, Sprint, and international CDMA carriers isn't a compelling reason?
You mean zero additional US sales, with the only other international CDMA markets being where the iPhone would be priced out of reach for the bulk of that market, as you categorically and humorously claim for GSM (the number of "developed nation" customers on GSM where the iPhone is not available locally exceeds the total number of CDMA users worldwide, for crying out loud). There can be no Verizon or Sprint iPhone until at least next year.
and many claimed they were simply waiting for it to be available on their network provider.
Key word being "claimed". The thing about consumer surveys is that you get unreliable results when the situation is entirely hypothetical.
Use the CDMA iPhone resources for "Improving availability"?? How exactly would that work? The only other major GSM carrier is Tmobile
I'm referring, obviously, to expansion into international markets. How would it work? The way it currently works. You spend money in carrier deals, foreign regulatory compliance, backend development, and iTunes Store arrangements--i.e. improve availability of the product.

Seeing as though there is no option to approach Verizon or any other US carrier and that the LTE version may well be offered on Verizon, engineering a dead-end CDMA product remains, as always, uncompelling. T-Mobile is irrelevant.
Phone sales on AT&T are going to stall at some point, and the only way to find major growth in the United States will be availability on Verizon and Sprint, who combined have most of the other cellphone subscribers in the USA.
Yeah, and when that happens, CDMA will have several more nails in its coffin, making it even less worthwhile an effort and less attractive a technology.
Why is Verizon not a "prime candidate" right now?
It's barred by contract and it's CDMA. It's not exactly a hugely nuanced situation.
LTE is not going to be in widespread use for at least 18+ months at a minimum
Correct. Right about the time the AT&T exclusivity ends.
the phones will almost certainly use a CDMA radio as fallback.
In the case of the iPhone, highly doubtful.
Based on the 100 million CDMA users in the United States alone (which is easily the largest market for the iPhone based on its popularity), it should be well worth the investment -- not even counting
the hundreds of millions more CDMA users internationally.
Again, 400 million versus 4 billion. All for a technology that will be phased out within the next five years. It would be a dead-end model and that's exactly why it hasn't happened and won't.
Nearly every other International phone manufacturer makes models for both CDMA and GSM networks
Because they're in the business of doing so. If they didn't have to, they wouldn't, and if they were starting up this year, they wouldn't, either. It's not worth the investment when GSM sales remain strong and untapped and with next-generation networks already in the pre-deployment phase. It'd be like a startup company introducing an analog cell phone in 1999.
You are missing the point. Although GSM is far more popular, billions of those users are in the developing world where the iPhone is far from affordable
You're just misconstruing the point; it's not being missed. Verizon is a single provider operating a dead-end technology. Going through the necessary work, which you still dismiss implicitly through horrendously unparallel arguments about irrelevant factors, for a single model, for a single carrier, for a period of time barely longer than a single year, just flat out isn't happening.

The only way to grow is to tap into the millions of USA/Canadian CDMA subscribers that are just waiting for an iPhone to be available on their network.
You keep using this argument, but it makes no sense. There's nowhere to go beyond that market. It is, for the nth time, a dead end. Once they get the few million Verizon diehards who would, in fact, buy one, that's it. There is zero potential for further growth. If you want to talk about market saturation, that's a one-step game. The GSM market is nowhere near saturated, in stark contrast. To grow, Apple simply needs to expand the availability of its current products, aggressively price future products, and ride the wave of "new money" markets.

You can't argue that Verizon on CDMA is a strategy for long-term growth. Verizon's a good investment, but on LTE, not on CDMA.
Particularly when they are no doubt going to end up making an LTE iPhone that falls back on CDMA in the future anyways?
The LTE iPhone will, in all likelihood, not fall back to CDMA networks. Verizon customers will either have to deal with spotty LTE service areas or hope Verizon puts together a good roaming agreement for its LTE products.
 
The LTE iPhone will, in all likelihood, not fall back to CDMA networks. Verizon customers will either have to deal with spotty LTE service areas or hope Verizon puts together a good roaming agreement for its LTE products.

Oddly enough kdarling seems to be pretty sure Verizon isn't going to use LTE for voice in the beginning. Do you have anything that would refute that point? Besides Verizon and AT&T who else is doing LTE? Is anyone going to have it up at the same time as Verizon?
 
The LTE iPhone will, in all likelihood, not fall back to CDMA networks. Verizon customers will either have to deal with spotty LTE service areas or hope Verizon puts together a good roaming agreement for its LTE products.

An early LTE phone would most likely still use CDMA/GSM for voice. The data would use LTE and fall back if necessary.

CDMA will be around for probably another decade. Yes, eventually it will go away and be replaced by LTE, but that's also true of GSM. (Remember, we're talking about a Verizon phone in the US market. The rest of the world doesn't matter here.)

As for LTE cellphones, read this Verizon interview:

"When I asked (Verizon CTO Dick Lynch) about LTE handset deployments, he said there will be a few handsets and laptop cards with LTE about a year after the 2010 LTE network launch, but he stressed that voice is going to be carried over the 3G network well into the next decade — LTE will be for devices."

This is all mapped out in this Verizon slide show, pointing out that they intend to concentrate on purely data devices with LTE at first.
 
Makes sense, I can live without data everywhere but I need voice coverage to be at least as good as it is now with VZW.

I was looking at smart phones at a Verizon store today, saying how I really wished I could have the iphone and a VZ agent ACTUALLY TOLD ME they were getting the iPhone in January.

Which I of course will believe it when I see it. On the other hand I can't believe an agent would have said that even if it were true. I didn't press her on it too hard though.
 
I HOPE THIS IS A JOKE.

Verizon and Sprint SUCK!
They are CDMA Networks. WHY would a prestigeous company like Apple want to partner with a crappy CDMA-based cell carrier? Verizon and Sprint are the absolute worst. The reason the iPhone is on AT&T is because it is the only network suitable to handle the demands of the iPhone.

And for all of you people who have reception issues, get out of the 2% area that AT&T hasn't reached YET and move to a bigger better city like Philly who has absolutely no reception loss. I have no problems with my iPhone. EVER.
So stop complaining. You don't need an iPhone if you're going to moan about it.


I agree, I have great service with At&t I don't see what the big deal is, I had nextel at the 2G launch bought the 8GB on launch day and never looked back. I even paid a $150 early termination fee. Verizon's service sucks as far as I am concerned the AT&T haters out there complain about there service hop on verizon's outdated CDMA network and see how you like it.

At&t is dropping the ball regarding MMS and tethering, but if there networks can't handle the load of tethering right now, I'd rather wait then have it slow down to a crawl because people decide to drop broadband and use their iPhone as a modem. As far as I am concerned Verizon missed there chance, Apple came to them at the start and offered them exclusivity and Verizon wanted cheaper phones more profit and wanted to brand the phone with there stupid logo. An they passed on it when they didn't get there way. AT&T took a chance an look at them they are breaking company records with Apple, don't expect to see Verizon having the iPhone anytime soon, AT&T will give anything an everything to stay the only US carrier to have that phone. They are doing too well to give it up.
 
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