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Yes, but they can lower monthly rates if they limit the subsidy costs. That would retain me.


Suuuuure ... they are itching for a reason to lower prices!

This really is dumb. Particularly with the switch to shared data plans with unlimited minutes. It used to be that I stayed with Verizon because all my friends and family were with them and in-network calls were free. Well, that's no longer an issue! And if I have to wait till the contract it officially up, there is extremely little incentive to not switch carriers.

Unlimited minutes
Number portability
Jackass management decisions

Switching has never been easier!
 
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Bad business move IMO. IMO 18 months would probably be ideal. Long enough that they still make plenty of money on the subsidized phones and also far enough away from the contract end date that people are less tempted to jump ship since they'd have to wait an additional 6 months to do so w/o penalty.

Now they're making it very easy for a customer to switch carriers when they have an upgrade available. Of course VZW right now has the best coverage so perhaps they feel they can afford to do things this way.
 
Verizon doesn't have 100 million customers. They have 100 million "subscribers". It's a subtle but very important difference. Cause Verizon changed their reporting for stock holders late last year.

They now report average revenue per account rather than average per line. Why? Cause lines 2-5 were killing Verizon's average revenue per line. The public is stupid. Investors are not.

Like I said. 60% of Verizon or AT&T customers are on family plans. Cause their average cost per line ($50-55) is the same as prepaid carriers.

Ah... thanks.

Either way... T-Mobile is still the 4th place carrier (right?) and that's the point I was trying to make.
 
Really been considering dropping my Verizon account and taking the lines to T-Mobile. Their LTE coverage is fantastic and unmatched in the industry but what good is it when I have to monitor shared data among 5 lines and always risk the possibility of massive overages?

What good is unlimited data on T-Mobile if you don't have good coverage?

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Don't bother or affect me at all. I don't plan on renewing any contracts again. I pay full price for the phone and let the ball roll.

If you buy your phone outright... you still pay the same monthly fee as if you were still subsidizing under contract.

Right?
 
This is the blazing speeds for me from Verizon in my area. Tmo can't be much worse and will at least be cheaper. Worth a go since I won't be tied in a 2 year contract just to try them out.

dr2h46.png
 
The next step will be to offer 12 month contracts and charge $399 for the base phone. This way, the carriers subsidize less, the customer can get a new phone every 12 months, and many will continue with their phone after 12 months resulting in the carrier collecting even more money with customers paying for the subsidized phone after it is no longer subsidized.

Until 2 years ago Verizon did offer one year contracts with a higher price for the phone and you could upgrade in 10 months.
 
Sorry but I can't help but laugh when I hear people complaining about Verizon - anyone remember here remember back when people were pleading for the iPhone to come to Verizon? how they would give up their first born son? ob my how things change.
 
Good news for T-Mobile then?

$100 for 4 lines with each line having unlimited talk, text, and data*



T-Mobile_Simple_Choice_Plans-630x206.jpg


Line 1: $50 -------------(unlimited talk, unlimited text, 500MB of 4G speed, unlimited 2G data)
Line 2: +$30 ------------(unlimited talk, unlimited text, 500MB of 4G speed, unlimited 2G data)
Line 3: +$10-------------(unlimited talk, unlimited text, 500MB of 4G speed, unlimited 2G data)
Line 4: +$10-------------(unlimited talk, unlimited text, 500MB of 4G speed, unlimited 2G data)

= $100 for 4 lines
 
What good is unlimited data on T-Mobile if you don't have good coverage?

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If you buy your phone outright... you still pay the same monthly fee as if you were still subsidizing under contract.

Right?

I do have good coverage with Tmobile here. Equal to or even better than Verizon is here. Especially in my house. Verizon is mostly useful for rural areas but I don't travel to the boonies very often. Mainly went to Verizon because I wanted the iPhone 5.
 
Yeah that's great BUT this speed is worthless to me with the data caps and cost of additional data...

What data caps? Buy the phone unsubsidized. I use 200-500GB a month because I use it as a hotspot since FiOS isn't an option in my area and the LTE is faster than my DSL. Saves money that way.
 
Agree with other Posters

By doing this Verizon is allowing their customers to shop other carriers at the exact time they are eligible for a new phone. The opportunity here is for the competition to get their LTE network in decent shape so they can poach customers. I like the t-mobile model which cuts your rate once the phone is plaid for. Too bad they aren't that good in my area.
 
Ah... thanks.

Either way... T-Mobile is still the 4th place carrier (right?) and that's the point I was trying to make.

True. I get ur point also.

I just think its a 2 horse race in the USA with Verizon and ATT.

T-mobile (and Sprint) should know by now the race to the bottom of prices will not get them any long term customers IF service and coverage cannot match or come close to the big 2.

You don't want the cheapest customers. They may have bad credit. They may not pay their bills regardless of pricing.

Look at ur local Craigslist ads for tmobile and Sprint phones. In Orlando. Used Galaxy S3 are flooded with Tmobile and Sprint. Many Sprint used S3 will have bad ESN (some will say they are bad ESN, although there are many scammers who won't disclose).

Tmobile used phones are even worst. Cause most of the them will not disclose whether its a bad IMEI. Cause they think the general public only thinks Verizon and Sprint block their phones that are reported in bad account standing or stolen.

Ask yourself. Why are so many Galaxy S3 (tmobile/sprint) for resale. This is months before the S4 was announced. When ATT and Verizon in theory should have sold more S3 thus more people would resell them.

It's cause many people with Sprint and Tmobile have less than stellar credit.

Your best customers will pay a little more. Like i said. Those with 4-5 lines with Verizon plus discounts probably average $50-55 a line with family lines. Also factor in subsidy and can see paying $50-55 per line per month isn't much more than $45/month with straight talk.

We have 22% discount with Verizon. 1400 min family plan. Unlimited text. 4 lines. 3 smartphone $30 data plans. 1 flip phone for grandparent.

Total cost $205-210 including taxes from California and Federal.

That's $50-55/line per month
 
I have never seen anyone add the 4 into that equation. I have seen plenty of people compare the 4s and the 5 (I include myself into that one). I don't see how the 4 can be compared at all.

Twas a joke (note grinning emoticon). Have a beer and calm down.
 
As a stock holder in both AT&T and Verizon, I have enjoyed a fat and juicy dividend yield for many years now. But I have chosen to stick with T-mobile for a decade now. With T-mobile vast improvement in infrastructure I am watching my T and VZ positions closely.
 
The US consumer has gotten so conditioned to the idea of subsidized pricing of equipment that any attempt to go in a different direction will result in massive sticker shock.

We expect our cell phones to be between $0 - $200 here in the US. The minute someone sees $600 - $800 for a phone, they'll run directly to AT&T or Verizon and sign a contract to avoid that hit out of pocket, even if the plans are cheaper.

I don't see why. First, although the info is readily available, T-Mobile doesn't advertise the full price of the phone. Second, the handset is given to you at a discount. Third, you don't have to pay all at once. Fourth, for those not wanting to pay all of the price of the phone up front, the initial downpayment is less than on other carriers. Fifth, the price of T-Mobile's plans are less even with the twenty dollars a month phone payment added in.
 
True. I get ur point also.

I just think its a 2 horse race in the USA with Verizon and ATT.

T-mobile (and Sprint) should know by now the race to the bottom of prices will not get them any long term customers IF service and coverage cannot match or come close to the big 2.

You don't want the cheapest customers. They may have bad credit. They may not pay their bills regardless of pricing.

Look at ur local Craigslist ads for tmobile and Sprint phones. In Orlando. Used Galaxy S3 are flooded with Tmobile and Sprint. Many Sprint used S3 will have bad ESN (some will say they are bad ESN, although there are many scammers who won't disclose).

Tmobile used phones are even worst. Cause most of the them will not disclose whether its a bad IMEI. Cause they think the general public only thinks Verizon and Sprint block their phones that are reported in bad account standing or stolen.

Ask yourself. Why are so many Galaxy S3 (tmobile/sprint) for resale. This is months before the S4 was announced. When ATT and Verizon in theory should have sold more S3 thus more people would resell them.

It's cause many people with Sprint and Tmobile have less than stellar credit.

Your best customers will pay a little more. Like i said. Those with 4-5 lines with Verizon plus discounts probably average $50-55 a line with family lines. Also factor in subsidy and can see paying $50-55 per line per month isn't much more than $45/month with straight talk.

We have 22% discount with Verizon. 1400 min family plan. Unlimited text. 4 lines. 3 smartphone $30 data plans. 1 flip phone for grandparent.

Total cost $205-210 including taxes from California and Federal.

That's $50-55/line per month


Most of what you say is speculation. You haven't pointed to data. Where I live in Ann Arbor Michigan a majority of iPhones for sale on Craigslist, and even EBay, are from AT&T. People seem to be selling them to people like me on T-Mobile to recoup the cost of upgrading. T-Mobile had over 2 million formally unsupported iPhones on its network.

On T-Mobile you can have an unlimited data plan for 4 lines for $100 a month. That goes up $20 a month for every high end smartphone you want a loan for. So if you bought 3 iPhones the plan is $160 a month.

I have had great coverage in Michigan. My friend bought an iPhone T-Mobile yesterday and she was getting around 20 mb's a second downloads. Including my periods traveling to New York, Chicago, and Florida, I have lost about two calls. Both callers were on AT&T and happened to be driving on the same part of a particular highway.


I have been on AT&T and Verizon. I am much happier on T-Mobile especially with the iPhone supported.
 
You posted exactly the reason why I left Verizon and in my area, AT&T wasn't much better. I rarely had 3G at home on Verizon and the big O that you have there is what I had most of the time. I had dropped calls also beyond belief.

It took over 10 minutes to download one song on 3G on AT&T a few weeks ago in the middle of the night.


This is the blazing speeds for me from Verizon in my area. Tmo can't be much worse and will at least be cheaper. Worth a go since I won't be tied in a 2 year contract just to try them out.

Image
 
we all know what verizon will do if they ever eliminate phone subsidies. do you really think they will lower the cost of their plans??? come on, that's a joke.

phone subsidies keep the machine churning - people are more likely to buy new phones and thus sign up for more 2 year contracts. if you have no intention of switching carriers, buying unlocked doesn't make any sense. we as consumers have realized this and it's why keep keep buying into the subsidized + contract system. carriers just go along with it, and while they scream and cry about how phone subsidies are hurting their profits, contracts allow them to better predict what those profits will be. by purchasing the phone from verizon, they also have the opportunity to load you up with accessories which many clueless customers fall for in the store. they'll buy $30 car chargers, $50 cases, $20 extra charging cables...the list goes on. by the time the average clueless customer walks out of the store with their new subsidized smartphone, the carrier has recouped a HUGE amount of the cost of the subsidy. then there is sustaining support as well - customer comes back in to buy another charge or buy a replacement case.

i hardly feel bad for carriers when they whine about the cost of the subsidy. after all, we all know if it was truly better for their profits to offer unlocked contract free phones, they would all be doing it right now.

so verizon is doing the right thing for their company, despite their doom and gloom whining about subsidy costs. heck, my holding in VZ has gone from the mid $20's per share to just over $50/share.
 
I've been on AT&T since day one and have had no problems, my wife had Verizon for years and just switched to AT&T and she couldn't be happier. She always had problems with Verizon and their policies seem to be set up to drive people away. Well, mission accomplished!

Verizon will never get a nickel from me.
 
The carriers used to control the entire USA phone market. Until a certain phone launched in 2007 (and really 2008 was the real year that everything changed in the USA.

iPhone

Apple first wanted a cut of ATT's monthly bill per customer in 2007. That didn't work out well.

So in 2008 they convinced att to give what amounted to a $400 subsidy per phone per line.

Because carriers in the USA were promoting family lines as a back door way to brag about number of subscribers growing. But the public got smart. They added lines 2-5 each with $400/line subsidy.

So apple forced the carriers hands by 2008. Remember palms and blackberry were isually sold for $299-399 on contract.

All the other carriers had to sell for $199 on contract. Whether it be blackberry or android.

So a combination of huge subsidy plus huge growth of family lines caused carriers profit margins to erode.

So finally they have decided to try creative ways to raise prices (sharing plans, and now adding another 4 months to wait till contract ends).

----------

we all know what verizon will do if they ever eliminate phone subsidies. do you really think they will lower the cost of their plans??? come on, that's a joke.

phone subsidies keep the machine churning - people are more likely to buy new phones and thus sign up for more 2 year contracts. if you have no intention of switching carriers, buying unlocked doesn't make any sense. we as consumers have realized this and it's why keep keep buying into the subsidized + contract system. carriers just go along with it, and while they scream and cry about how phone subsidies are hurting their profits, contracts allow them to better predict what those profits will be. by purchasing the phone from verizon, they also have the opportunity to load you up with accessories which many clueless customers fall for in the store. they'll buy $30 car chargers, $50 cases, $20 extra charging cables...the list goes on. by the time the average clueless customer walks out of the store with their new subsidized smartphone, the carrier has recouped a HUGE amount of the cost of the subsidy. then there is sustaining support as well - customer comes back in to buy another charge or buy a replacement case.

i hardly feel bad for carriers when they whine about the cost of the subsidy. after all, we all know if it was truly better for their profits to offer unlocked contract free phones, they would all be doing it right now.

so verizon is doing the right thing for their company, despite their doom and gloom whining about subsidy costs. heck, my holding in VZ has gone from the mid $20's per share to just over $50/share.
I own both verizon and att stock. Been great with the 5% dividend and 30% gain in stock price the past year.

Eventually prices will reach a boiling point. With cable/Internet prices . It reached about $150/month in early 2000 in many households. At that point consumers got fed up. And many cut the cord. So cable companies had no choice but to essentially freeze prices the past 5-7 years.

I've had essentially the same triple play package the past 8 years for $110-140.

Same thing is about to hit the wireless industry in the USA. The key number is when the average per line price hits $60/line.

Carriers know they are fast approaching that point. Once ur 5 line Verizon bill hit $300 consumers will take note. At that point alternatives like smaller tmobile or even prepaid make sense.
 
My Verizon account still shows the 20 months as my upgrade date and I just signed up December 2012. Wonder if that means I'm not affected by this.
 
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