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Vertical Interaction on Touchscreens - Debate

C

charlieasmith96

macrumors member
Original poster
May 17, 2013
34
100
I thought it was worth starting a discussion based on the concept of vertical interaction on touchscreen laptops and iPads with keyboards.

My point is that using an iPad Smart Keyboard and manoeuvring your finger to the iPad display to interact with the content is an ergonomic nightmare when compared to a horizontal surface such as a mouse or trackpad.

I have had a lot of personal experience with this when typing up numerous long documents on my iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard. I simply did NOT enjoy the experience of selecting text and changing tools by having to manipulate the touch screen. It felt very unnatural and far slower than a mouse or trackpad on my MacBook. After an extended period of time, it was simply unbearable.

Now, if some of your remember the October 2010 "Back to the Mac" keynote, Steve Jobs echoed the same frustrations:


I do not want to be "that guy" who treats Steve Jobs word as gospel. I know he had wrong opinions on the App Store and iTunes for Windows etc. My point is not about how Apple has lost its way by not incorporating his thinking, I just really think he was right in this respect.

I think it would be interesting to have a discussion on this, as Apple seems intent on pursuing this route nowadays.

Thanks,

Charlie
 
Did you try using any keyboard shortcuts? I find that iOS 9 has added so many shortcuts I hardly ever have to touch the screen.
 
Night Spring said:
Did you try using any keyboard shortcuts? I find that iOS 9 has added so many shortcuts I hardly ever have to touch the screen.
Click to expand...

Yes, and this is coming from a big fan of keyboard shortcuts when programming. But I also prefer using a mouse or trackpad a lot of the time.

But it is important to realise that average user finds keyboard shortcuts daunting; they are not as visual or obvious as using the trackpad or mouse.
 
It would just be so nice if Apple added mouse support for iOS devices, so we can use them like laptops or tablets, depending on the situation. I have a keyboard case for my iPad mini and I never use it for long because the iPad just doesn't work right as a laptop.
 
I don't use a keyboard cover for that very reason. It quickly became too tiring to have to keep raising my hand to interact with the touchscreen. Not to mention those keyboard cases added too much bulk and weight and were cumbersome to detach when all I wanted was the ipad.

The Smart Keyboard looks like it alleviates the problem of weight and portability. I don't presume to speak for other people, but I don't think this is for me.
 
I discovered this too that the large ipad pro is much better without the keyboard unless I need to type a paper...iOS on ipads currently is best without a keyboard until they get mouse support.
 
I would love to see mouse support on the iPad. Some folks here are against it which really baffles me. With a Smart Keyboard and mouse, it would be a great user experience IMO.
 
I think support for a "pointer" for those who want to use a mouse will most certainly appear in the next versions of iOS.
 
I know some people like a mouse and hey, I love my Magic Trackpad on my Mac. But whether I'm working in Xcode on the Mac or typing up documents on the iPad. I think the keyboard shortcuts for selecting and manipulating text are much more natural and quicker than removing my hand from the keyboard, going to he mouse, moving the cursor about and selecting text.

Much quicker to quickly tap two keys on the keyboard at the same time to move, or select words, sentences or paragraphs. But of course we're all different in how we like to do things.
 
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TrueBlou said:
I know some people like a mouse and hey, I love my Magic Trackpad on my Mac. But whether I'm working in Xcode on the Mac or typing up documents on the iPad. I think the keyboard shortcuts for selecting and manipulating text are much more natural and quicker than removing my hand from the keyboard, going to he mouse, moving the cursor about and selecting text.

Much quicker to quickly tap two keys on the keyboard at the same time to move, or select words, sentences or paragraphs. But of course we're all different in how we like to do things.
Click to expand...
People do a lot more than typing documents on an iPad, though.
 
Channan said:
People do a lot more than typing documents on an iPad, though.
Click to expand...


Indeed they do, as do I in fact. I do quite a bit of vector artwork, handwriting, drawing, photo and video editing and a whole lot more. For that stuff I generally use the Pencil and the iPad is detached from the keyboard as there's not much in the way of keyboard use for any of it.

But even when I'm writing up documents that have images, or working on app and website layouts and I need the keyboard, I still use the Pencil on the screen. It's less fatiguing than using a finger alone.

None of that actually matters though, as my post was specifically about writing with the keyboard, I mentioned nothing else.

Of course there's times when a cursor might be nice in certain apps, that's kind of why they developed the Pencil.

But I can certainly see the scenario for traditional cursor integration. I just hope that if and when they do it, they are sensible about it and keep it in check. God forbid iOS starts turning into an Android or Windows wannabe.
 
jamesrick80 said:
Is there a shortcut for zooming when you are in safari, that would be helpful for me ?
Click to expand...

Not that I know of. But when I'm using Safari, I don't use an external keyboard, so for me, this hasn't been an issue. Actually, has anyone tried Cmd+"+"?
 
Night Spring said:
Not that I know of. But when I'm using Safari, I don't use an external keyboard, so for me, this hasn't been an issue. Actually, has anyone tried Cmd+"+"?
Click to expand...

The CMD + and - doesn't work but Apple really should add that as a shortcut to zoom. Then the experience would be more seamless.
 
I think one way or another if people want their tablets to replace their laptops, they are going to have to concede that Microsoft is correct in concept if not execution.

I'm not saying what is actually right or wrong, but when you request an attachable keyboard/trackpad/mouse and UI that would presumably adapt to those input methods, you're basically describing the surface paradigm.

but conversely when you go down that avenue, you start raising different questions, like does anything less than the 12" form factor even make sense for a keyboard and mouse UI. And if you go that route, are you starting to encroach on the original advantages of the tablet as a lightweight handheld device - it'll just end up getting primarily used exactly like a laptop.

It's a tough call, and certainly there are options out there for the market to decide which approach seems to work best. I know personally I'd rather just use a laptop without any tablet compromises for heavy lifting and a nice light tablet for the tasks where that form factor makes sense.
 
stevemiller said:
but conversely when you go down that avenue, you start raising different questions, like does anything less than the 12" form factor even make sense for a keyboard and mouse UI. And if you go that route, are you starting to encroach on the original advantages of the tablet as a lightweight handheld device - it'll just end up getting primarily used exactly like a laptop.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the thing. Whenever I read people saying they want a mouse with their iPads, I think, "Where are they using this mouse? They'd need a desk to use a mouse. And if they are at a desk, why aren't they using a laptop?" I suppose they could use a trackpad, but that's still another device they have to carry. And trackpads built into keyboards, like on the Surface keyboard cover, are too small for comfortable use. If I needed extensive keyboard / trackpad use on the go, I think I'd get the retina MacBook, rather than trying to use the iPad and griping about no mouse support.

I'm not even convinced about the Smart Keyboard for the iPad Pro. To me, the 12.9 version seems too bulky, and the 9.7 version feels too cramped to type comfortably. I'm mostly just happy typing away on the on screen keyboard on my 12.9 Pro, and anytime I need to interact with other onscreen elements, I'm already touching the screen anyway. It just feels like the most "natural" way to interact with a tablet.
 
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Night Spring said:
Yeah, that's the thing. Whenever I read people saying they want a mouse with their iPads, I think, "Where are they using this mouse? They'd need a desk to use a mouse. And if they are at a desk, why aren't they using a laptop?" I suppose they could use a trackpad, but that's still another device they have to carry. And trackpads built into keyboards, like on the Surface keyboard cover, are too small for comfortable use. If I needed extensive keyboard / trackpad use on the go, I think I'd get the retina MacBook, rather than trying to use the iPad and griping about no mouse support.

I'm not even convinced about the Smart Keyboard for the iPad Pro. To me, the 12.9 version seems too bulky, and the 9.7 version feels too cramped to type comfortably. I'm mostly just happy typing away on the on screen keyboard on my 12.9 Pro, and anytime I need to interact with other onscreen elements, I'm already touching the screen anyway. It just feels like the most "natural" way to interact with a tablet.
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to agree. I do have the ASK and I do use it, but only when I'm typing up multi-page documents. Beyond that, as you do rightly say, it's a tablet. Give me the Pencil or one of those squidgy devices attached to the thing on your arm, a flinger or something I believe it's called. It's what tablets were designed for, direct interaction.
 
I have to agree with the OP. Swing and miss for Apple and iOS to not have Bluetooth mouse support. Windows continues to win, with a laptop that doubles as a tablet, because Apple does not trust the end consumer.

How is this about trust? iOS is Apple's solution to DRM and the ultimate Wall in their Garden. It is the premier and only OS, fully locked down, controlled and patrolled by an AppStore, where things get in but find it hard to get out, pushed out in front of everything device. It's what you carry on your hip.

And your range and firepower are crippled by terms of service.
 
Night Spring said:
Yeah, that's the thing. Whenever I read people saying they want a mouse with their iPads, I think, "Where are they using this mouse? They'd need a desk to use a mouse. And if they are at a desk, why aren't they using a laptop?"
Click to expand...

Tim Cook has said multiple times that an iPad can replace a laptop for a lot of people. The lack of a mouse is one reason it can't for some.
 
SurFaceMac said:
Windows continues to win, with a laptop that doubles as a tablet, because Apple does not trust the end consumer.
Click to expand...

...? Could you clarify on this? Do you mean Windows as an OS is winning in general? Not all Windows devices are tablet/touchscreen hybrids.

Do you mean all Windows touchscreen laptops in general, rather than "with a laptop", you mean "with laptops that"? So essentially every Windows laptop that has touchscreen capabilities?

If we include all those, the analysis doesn't seem so clear to me. Do people really use the touchscreen very often when using these "touch-enabled" Windows laptops? I'd guess they'd more often than not use the mouse and trackpad, especially since touchscreen optimized productivity Windows apps aren't particularly common, although this is a similar situation for iOS.
 
richpjr said:
Tim Cook has said multiple times that an iPad can replace a laptop for a lot of people. The lack of a mouse is one reason it can't for some.
Click to expand...

Then Tim Cook must not have been including the people who need a mouse among people who can replace a laptop with an iPad.

Seriously, I never liked the mouse, but got dragged kicking and screaming into using it anyway. It amuses me that people are now being dragged kicking and screaming away from the mouse.
 
Night Spring said:
Then Tim Cook must not have been including the people who need a mouse among people who can replace a laptop with an iPad.

Seriously, I never liked the mouse, but got dragged kicking and screaming into using it anyway. It amuses me that people are now being dragged kicking and screaming away from the mouse.
Click to expand...

It really would be such a simple thing to add that I'm not sure what the stubborn resistance is to it.
 
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