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AfterglowMP

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 20, 2010
86
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We're chugging along with a 2010 MP 5,1, having upgraded from 6 to 12 core 3.33mhz with a Nvidia GTX 980Ti card. Now adding more RAM to the current 24gb to make it 40gb.

The apps and system run off a Samsumg 250gb MZHPV256HDGL SSD and two x 2TB spinning disc drives are raided as a single drive to maximise speed during editing which is mostly in Premiere now.

Is it worth the approx $1000 to replace the spinning disc 2 x 2TB HDs in the raid with SSDs? Would replacing the raid with a single SSD be worth it? Is there a significant boost?

A lot of the time-watching is in rendering and output but there's also the frustration of having lots of folders and sequences open in Premiere with heaps of filters on clips and the inevitable Premiere crash. Would SSDs improve that situation?

I'll check through Premiere forums as well. Thanks.
 
It doesn't make any sense to upgrade a 2010 Mac Pro with a more powerful processor, a GTX 980 Ti, 24 GB of RAM, and 2 TB SSD x 2 for RAID. Purchase a new Mac Pro.
 
I never used RAID on a Mac Pro. It's just a risky software RAID. I recommend using two SSDs for your active projects. One source, one target disk. This is the fastest and most reliable. Worth it? Really depends on the size of your projects.
 
Is it worth the approx $1000 to replace the spinning disc 2 x 2TB HDs in the raid with SSDs? Would replacing the raid with a single SSD be worth it? Is there a significant boost?

A lot of the time-watching is in rendering and output but there's also the frustration of having lots of folders and sequences open in Premiere with heaps of filters on clips and the inevitable Premiere crash. Would SSDs improve that situation?
Not knowing much about Premiere, I'm assuming that most of the waiting is either waiting for the RAID array to parse through the folders/load the files, or running out of RAM and paging to the scratch disk (or both).

If it's the latter (running out of RAM), then I would suggest waiting for the new RAM and seeing if that helps by itself. If it's the former (waiting on the RAID stripe to load files), then it's a bit more complicated:
  • If a typical workflow has lots of smaller files spliced together and streaming directly off disk, then even a single SSD may be faster, as SSDs excel at small files and concurrent accesses. An example of this might be a multi-angle shot with several soundtracks and filters running at the same time.
  • If your typical workflow is a handful of larger files (several hundred megabytes per clip, for example), the benefit may be smaller. RAID-0 stripes with hard disks tend to be very good at high-MB/sec streaming. An example of this would be a few longer cuts with very few edits/added effects.
For either case, you should also consider the possibility of running into the limitations of the Mac Pro's built-in SATAII - the maximum throughput even from a dual 2TB-SSD stripe will be around 550 MB/sec. My dual 4-TB stripe (two 7200rpm hard disks) can manage ~300 MB/sec with a large enough file. That means you may need to budget for a PCIe card with additional SATA3 or even NVMe connections to see a significant benefit (and there's a few threads discussing the pros/cons of that if you thumb through the first 2-3 pages of this forum).

So all told, I would just watch Activity Monitor while you're editing/rendering a file. If "Memory Used" (in the Memory tab) exceeds 24gb while you're working, you'll get the most benefit from the RAM upgrade. If "data read/sec" or "data written/sec" (in the Disk tab) is less than, say, 30-60 mB/sec while you're editing a file, then you might benefit from just a single SSD. If "data read/sec" or "data written/sec" exceeds 200-300 mB/sec while working, you could benefit from a SSD stripe but you should also look at NVMe or an SATA3 card as options.

[edit]
Assuming the CPU/GPU upgrade (and the pending RAM upgrade) are already sunk costs, you may also consider that every significant expenditure from here on out could go towards a new workstation instead. Assuming you're locked into a CUDA workflow, you should keep an eye on whether NVIDIA eGPUs become officially supported in MacOS - in which case an iMac Pro with a Pascal/Volta/whatever eGPU will almost certainly be faster than whatever you could upgrade the 5,1 into. If Premiere ever gets Metal support added you won't even need eGPU (but this seems much less likely). At any rate Apple will probably stop supporting the 4,1/5,1 after MacOS Mojave, so your computer's running on borrowed time anyway unless you stop upgrading the OS.
 
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What are you rendering? Effects/plugins?
Resize/reposition images?
What timeline format?
What renderer (CUDA, OpenCL, Metal)?
What read/write speeds are you getting right now?
What is the source media?

I would only trust 2xSSD RAID-0 for media scratch. Would be sure to update clones at least daily for anything more.
 
Yeah, a lot of this is dependent on the formats you work on normally.

My Mac Pro edits DCI 4K pretty well.

Sounds like the one thing you can do to increase performance is to reallocate your media cache to its own separate ssd.
 
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worth looking at activity monitor to see if drive speed is actually a problem or not and relay depends on work flow/video formats etc...

relay worth trying to talk to adobe or looking in there forums

"Is it worth" is always a complex question ;)

i have no idea if SSD's will stop your crashes, id gess they will not speed up exports (as they tend to be CPU limited) but it may give you more "snappy" time line response, faster thumbnail generation etc

@tu2thepoo has a good in depth post
also https://www.pugetsystems.com/all_articles.php has lots of fun benchmarks on pro apps like PP
 
Thanks to all the above.

LOL, that's right, no new MacPro as yet and like a lot of filmmakers I love/need the expansiveness of the cheesegrater. Plus the speed of a maxed out 5,1 was close or the same as nMPs depending on the task.

Everything on the RAID O is backed up, of course. It's only job is as media scratch as detailed earlier.

Costs are really not the issue. The upgrades have been minimal relative to what might have been spent on a new Mac Pro or Imac and between those costs and the MP purchase eight years ago, it's paid for itself many times over.

The issue is whether there would be substantial gains from replacing the raided disc HDDs with SSDs. If so, who wouldn't spend the money but if it's a minimal gain ...

@PowerMike, relocating the media cache is an interesting suggestion. I mostly park project files on the system drive. Your system sounds like a beast. What app do you edit in?
 
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Thanks. Yeah I spent a lot to maximize every component possible, but as you mentioned, its worth it as its paid itself many times over already.

I use Adobe Premiere Pro. Moving the media cache to a separate SSD will give you the largest improvement in speed, as its accessing a ton of small files, similar to you OS. So by moving it to another fast SSD with fast random access of small files will give you quite a boost.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-2015-4-Storage-Optimization-854/

Check this out for more info.
 
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Thanks for advice. I'll start shopping around for SSDs. I have a couple in my MP as I mentioned, one running system and apps and another as a back up in the 2nd spare DVD drive slot.

The SSDs I'm looking for would have to be at least 1tb in size since there's almost always 2-3tb of media files in the scratch raid 0 being worked as part of long term projects.

I've bought drives from Mac sales and a few other places. Recommendations for SSDs outlets are welcome.

If I did replace the two HDDs currently raided as the one drive, could the SSDs be raided together or would any increase in speed from SSDs make 0-raiding redundant?
 
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@AfterglowMP, I’d look into a pair of Samsung 970 EVO M.2 drives and an Amfeltec Squid card to run them in RAID 0.
This will give you an excellent scratch drive.

Bear in mind that these drives would not be bootable if used for the OS unless you flashed a custom cMP firmware with added NVMe extension.
But from your post this sounds like it won’t be a problem as it’s purely for scratch use.
 
Thanks for advice. I'll start shopping around for SSDs. I have a couple in my MP as I mentioned, one running system and apps and another as a back up in the 2nd spare DVD drive slot.

The SSDs I'm looking for would have to be at least 1tb in size since there's almost always 2-3tb of media files in the scratch raid 0 being worked as part of long term projects.

I've bought drives from Mac sales and a few other places. Recommendations for SSDs outlets are welcome.

If I did replace the two HDDs currently raided as the one drive, could the SSDs be raided together or would any increase in speed from SSDs make 0-raiding redundant?
Take a look here, it's the best card for using multiple PCIe SSDs on a Mac Pro: Highpoint 7101A - PCIe 3.0 SSD performance for the cMP
 
Thanks, I'm looking into it suggested SSDs.

Reviewed some disk speed tests and the Samsung 250gb SMI95 in my PCI slot running the OS is not exactly killing it. It's three years since I installed it and now it's writing at 85MB/s and reading at 615MB/s. Should I back up, wipe and re-instal the system?

The internal Raid O is clocking at 376MB/s write and 407MB/s read.
 
UPDATE: turned Trim on in Terminal (previously was on older non-Trim system) and the system drive SMI95 is much faster - around 900 MB/s write and 1300+ MB/s read.
 
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What are you rendering? Effects/plugins?
Resize/reposition images?
What timeline format?
What renderer (CUDA, OpenCL, Metal)?
What read/write speeds are you getting right now?
What is the source media?

I would only trust 2xSSD RAID-0 for media scratch. Would be sure to update clones at least daily for anything more.

All good questions. More information is needed.
 
Speeds as above.
Source material - Range of codecs H264, XDCAM, Pro res 422 almost all editing in HD
Effects and plug ins - PPro effects, red giant denoiser/colorista
CUDA
 
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