I always have to ask with these products whether the perceived acoustic difference boils down to expectations set by the price point. In a blind listening test, listeners generally cannot distinguish between $400 respected brand wired headphones and $8000 luxury brand wired headphones.
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Video: Testing Focal's High-End $800 Bathys Over-Ear Headphones
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They have a cable - but in a studio other things become more important, like a really neutral sound profile, accurate sound-reproduction or comfort for wearing them all day. You'd rather use professional reference headphones for professional work and not luxury consumer headphones.
Source for these blind listening tests. Since the drivers, electronics, materials and shape of the headphones all affect the sound quality I think that is a major over generalization. If you where talking about cables I agree with you, but any device especially speakers and headphones is not going to sound the same, even if you compare $400 models they are going to sound different.
Sound quality is in the eye of the beholder, because of many factors including the listeners age, shape of ears and many others speakers and headphones sound different to different people, so headphones that I like and sound good to me you might hate and sound like crap to you. If someone tells you that one headphone sounds better than the next run far away. You need to use your own ears to test any speakers or headphones.
One big pet peeve of mine is when companies try to make closed back headphones look like open back headphones. Dyson did this too.
No idea how those cans sound but the design is just too much. Not a fan. Though I’m sure plenty of people are.
The AirPods Max are pretty “decent” and I say that with genuinely high praise. But it irritates the heck out of me that they didn’t include a simple digital cable operator mode.
For example Bang and Olufsen wireless cans can be used with a USB C cable directly to a compatible audio source (Mac, PC, Tablet or other device that can host a standard USB audio interface) to get a digital stream direct to the headset. Then the internal dac takes over.
But this nonsense of using lighting cable interface without that ability requires dac to adc then back to dac again to feed anything that isn’t AAC over Bluetooth to them. That’s just a terribly inefficient and poor quality solution.
Plus those analog to lighting interface cables they use are pathetically thin with basically no shielding.
It’s serviceable but not for high fidelity work. Which is when I just switch to my Beyer Dynamic cans (either open or closed back depending on the application).
I hope they add cabled digital audio stream delivery in future revisions. It would make them viable for quite a bit of work they currently fall just short of.
Do you know what audio professionals use? These are the people who record and mix sound for a living. They make the stuff we listen to. None of then use $500 headphones. Those are for gullible consumers with too much cash.
The #1 industry standard headphone for recording in the TV and motion picture industry is this:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MDR7506--sony-mdr-7506-closed-back-professional-headphones
You also see these used for mixing, as they are best used in a quiet environment. They are not good for musicians or vocalists because they can bleed sound into a nearby microphone. So they are more specialized than the above, making them perhaps the #2 most used over the last 50 or so years
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K240mk2--akg-k240-mkii-semi-open-pro-studio-headphones
If you buy either of the above, you will hear what the studio engineer heard. There are others that some people use but no one goes for these expensive consumer headphones as most of these alter the sound and are not accurate. Consumers like exaggerated bass and sometime also exaggerated highs.
If you are at home in a quiet environment the K240 Mk I, are only $80 and are nearly the best in the world although they leak sound and people around you might hear it. The reason for the low price is that open back headphones are "easy" to make correctly. The engineering is greatly simplified by not having to deal with compressing the air inside the cans.
The #1 industry standard headphone for recording in the TV and motion picture industry is this:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MDR7506--sony-mdr-7506-closed-back-professional-headphones
You also see these used for mixing, as they are best used in a quiet environment. They are not good for musicians or vocalists because they can bleed sound into a nearby microphone. So they are more specialized than the above, making them perhaps the #2 most used over the last 50 or so years
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K240mk2--akg-k240-mkii-semi-open-pro-studio-headphones
If you buy either of the above, you will hear what the studio engineer heard. There are others that some people use but no one goes for these expensive consumer headphones as most of these alter the sound and are not accurate. Consumers like exaggerated bass and sometime also exaggerated highs.
If you are at home in a quiet environment the K240 Mk I, are only $80 and are nearly the best in the world although they leak sound and people around you might hear it. The reason for the low price is that open back headphones are "easy" to make correctly. The engineering is greatly simplified by not having to deal with compressing the air inside the cans.
So all of a sudden, these Focal Bathys wireless headphones are worth their high price just because they are not from Apple, right? I remember how many reviewers were whining about the price tag of the AirPods Max when they were released, but now they are more inclined to praise any headphones that are more expensive than the AirPods Max, even if they offer similar (or sometimes worse) build and sound quality. Personally, I don't like judging products solely by their price tag. I believe that if a product is good and offers something special for a higher price, it may be worth it for those who value what it offers over cheaper options, even if the price is double for a marginal increase in performance. The performance-to-price ratio is not linear, just like we have in silicon chips. After a certain threshold, when you want slightly more performance, you'll have to double the power (which is proportional to cost). So higher prices do not always mean something is overpriced.
I've noticed the hypocrisy that some reviewers have when it comes to reviewing these products. The outcome of the review is often influenced by the company behind the product. Undoubtedly, Apple is a victim of this in most circumstances because it has now become a trend to hate on them for no reason, just to gain clout. I recently compared WIRED's review of the AirPods Max to that of the Focals, and the stark difference in the approach and bias towards the Focals, despite them being more expensive, is quite evident. For instance, the build of the Focal's is not even entirely metallic like the AirPods Max, yet MacRumor claims they are more premium than what Apple has to offer. What?
This is not to say that the Focals are not good for the price (I mean, being 'good for the price' depends on what the user wants in a headphone, such as sound quality, which these excel at). It's just the sheer amount of hypocrisy from some of these people that is baffling.
I've noticed the hypocrisy that some reviewers have when it comes to reviewing these products. The outcome of the review is often influenced by the company behind the product. Undoubtedly, Apple is a victim of this in most circumstances because it has now become a trend to hate on them for no reason, just to gain clout. I recently compared WIRED's review of the AirPods Max to that of the Focals, and the stark difference in the approach and bias towards the Focals, despite them being more expensive, is quite evident. For instance, the build of the Focal's is not even entirely metallic like the AirPods Max, yet MacRumor claims they are more premium than what Apple has to offer. What?
This is not to say that the Focals are not good for the price (I mean, being 'good for the price' depends on what the user wants in a headphone, such as sound quality, which these excel at). It's just the sheer amount of hypocrisy from some of these people that is baffling.
I'm an audio professional and for open-back I use the Sennheiser HD 660s and for closed-back the Neumann NDH 20. Both are around $500. I spend a lot of time in headphones, so I want them to sound good, to not colour the sound in weird ways, and to be comfortable. The Neumann's are kinda bulky, which I don't love, but they sound great and isolate well. The Sennheisers are ridiculously comfortable and have a lovely, transparent sound—softer bass than the Neumann's, but still definitely there.
Studios use the Sony MDRs because they sound good for their price-point and are durable. Also, they spend a lot more time using monitors than headphones, so investing in higher-end headphones doesn't make a ton of sense (particularly given that they will have spent $$$$ in monitors).
They have some well-reviewed inexpensive headphones. The HE-400 is around $100 and has great reviews (e.g., https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hifiman-he400se-review-headphone.28771/). I have them and like them. The Sundara can be had for around $200 on sale.
But yes, you can spend a lot more if you want to on some of their headphones: https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/he-r10-planar.html ($5500).
The MDR 7506 are mainly used for tracking (and yes I know some engineers do use them for mixing).
However, many are also using Audeze cans like the LCD-X or LCD-5 or MM-500, or Focal Clear for example. All of these are above 1000 USD (some of them substantially).
The best way to really the quality of transparency mode is to toggle the Max to "off." When you hear how muffled everything is by the ear cushions when they're totally passive, you realize how much work they're doing to pick up everything around you on the onboard mics and then pipe it out very accurately through the drivers.
I used to use a pair of open-backed Grados for music, but then switch to a pair of (admittedly crappy) Bose when I needed ANC. When I bought the AirPods Max, I assumed I'd be replacing only the Bose, but as it turned out transparency mode was so good it rivalled what I was hearing through the Grados. So, ended up replacing both with one headset.
On top of that, the build quality is nuts. I've been using them since early 2021, daily, and the only thing that shows any real sign of wear is the white headband which although the mesh is fully solid an intact, isn't as bright white as it used to be.
Planar magnetic drivers don't suffer bass reproduction slowness, like standard dynamic magnet transducers do. Looking at a waveform plot, it's literally the difference of a square wave accuracy being reduced to barely a sawtooth that has so much distortion it isn't funny. Yes most of what you are talking up is barely able to reproduce any degree of accuracy with lower octaves. Yes lots of studio engineers use the cheap cans like the Audio-Technica ATH-M50 or like cans but if you really start to listen to content and compare you can hear how bad the bass accuracy actually is. Much larger speakers have the same issues, they cannot accelerate the bass transducer fast enough (start/stop of air movement) to reproduce clean bass in the majority of examples. It's like mud.
In relationship to the topic I am obviously pointing out whats wrong with most headphones, but hey most never hear that difference so yes your point versus the Bathys is somewhat true given the cost comparisons.
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For front-page worthy product "comparisons" like this, where they're loosely related to Apple products, MacRumors should really specify within the article or the review video if it was sponsored or not because I want to know if I'm getting unbiased information.
I love my Audeze LCD-3 (open back). Sound amazing- warm, detailed, gorgeous bass - paired with my Schiit Gungnir Multibit and Schiit Ragnarok 2. I also have Alpha Prime (closed back) and Nighthawk (open back).
I’ve owned Sony XM1, XM2, & XM3 as well as Bose NC700 and Plantronics BB6100.
Whilst I’ve not heard the Focal (or AirPods Max), based on my experience with the above BT headphones, I would think that the Focal are good but a country mile from higher end wired headphones connected with a decent desktop Multibit dac and a headphone amp.
I think I’d rather dedicate more investment in a headphone rig and “settle” for a compromise in BT headphones with good sq and anc that are geared for mobility by buying a sensibly priced refurbished pair of AirPods Max for convenience listening.
I own a set of Bathys currently, and have previously had APMs.
My main thoughts...
- APMs have better build quality
- APMs have noticeably better ANC and transparency mode
- Bathys sound MARGINALLY better overall, I'd say 10-15% better than APMs
- APMs have slightly stronger bass
- Bathys much better mids and highs
- Similar soundstage
- APMs have better mic for phone calls
- Bathys much better battery life
- Bathys have an actual on/off switch
- Bathys much better connectivity with 3.5mm Jack, USB-C with DAC mode for higher bitrate listening (although I rarely use this)
- APMs a bit more comfortable, I find my ears get hotter with the Bathys
- I found the Bathys had a more stable Bluetooth connection to my Apple devices than the APMs, weirdly
Overall, Bathys are a bit better but if you're buying new they aren't worth $300 more. I actually think I prefer the APMs.
My main thoughts...
- APMs have better build quality
- APMs have noticeably better ANC and transparency mode
- Bathys sound MARGINALLY better overall, I'd say 10-15% better than APMs
- APMs have slightly stronger bass
- Bathys much better mids and highs
- Similar soundstage
- APMs have better mic for phone calls
- Bathys much better battery life
- Bathys have an actual on/off switch
- Bathys much better connectivity with 3.5mm Jack, USB-C with DAC mode for higher bitrate listening (although I rarely use this)
- APMs a bit more comfortable, I find my ears get hotter with the Bathys
- I found the Bathys had a more stable Bluetooth connection to my Apple devices than the APMs, weirdly
Overall, Bathys are a bit better but if you're buying new they aren't worth $300 more. I actually think I prefer the APMs.
I have had both and returned the Bathys. I'm not sure they DO sound better than the APMs, and for the $300 premium, definitely not worth it to me.