Video: Trying the Apple Vision Pro Headset

[Night Spring]

I’m certain that Apple’s integration will be great.

But remember that Meta, Valve, Pimax, etc. (all of which are compatible with Virtual Desktop and obviously many other VR apps) are PC. PC folks have an open sandbox for many different types of applications that offer the same experiences as what Apple demonstrated.

Again, I’m sure Apple’s integration of these ideas will be even better. That’s what I love about Apple.

But that doesn’t make them “new,” is my point. (Also, it’s still pretty damn easy on PCVR.)

I just don’t see this as a killer feature that will suddenly convince a lot of people to buy into AR/VR who haven’t already… When it’s been around for 7 years. Personally, with a lot of VR experience.

I don't think Apple's MO is making something totally new that nobody's done before. What they are good at is lowering the resistance threshold just enough so that something that was niche becomes attractive to mainstream users. I think that's what they are doing here with Vision Pro. Whether I'm right, time will tell.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I don't think Apple's MO is making something totally new that nobody's done before. What they are good at is lowering the resistance threshold just enough so that something that was niche becomes attractive to mainstream users. I think that's what they are doing here with Vision Pro. Whether I'm right, time will tell.

That’s right. I am not a gamer. However, I can see a ton of uses for vision pro that I couldn’t see with other VR headsets and the option to not be immersed is a HUGE plus IMO and offers up so many benefits.

 

[mongobongo]

You can make the field of view as immersive and surround as you'd like using the digital crown. They showed that in the keynote... Unless I am misundertanding your question.

That has nothing to do with FOV which is more of a technical limitation. I'm not sure if I can explain it but let me try. Even with a low FOV you can still be in a 360° immersive world but you will have to turn your head a lot to bring it into view. But let's say you keep your head in a fixed position. How many degrees can you see to the sides or up and down without moving your head. That's horizontal and vertical FOV. Hope that makes sense!

Without a headset most humans have a horizontal FOV of about 180°. The Quest 2 has a FOV of 95° whereas some headset called Pimax 8K X has an FOV of 160°. Most headsets fall around 100°. I'm very qurious what the number is for Vision Pro.

Needless to say, the closer you get to 180° with a headset, the more realistic it feels. A very low FOV will feel like looking through a tube.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Narrow use cases?

I use the same headset for work. And for gaming. And for chatting with other people (with a virtual avatar). For entertainment. For general computing.

It’s… literally the same thing.

Granted, probably integrated even better by Apple, with fantastic optics. I’m an Apple fan (currently typing to you on 2 ProDisplay XDR’s with nanotexture).

I’m glad the Vision Pro appeals to you. I’m sure the hardware is great. But they are 7 years behind the times, when it comes to the software they’ve demonstrated. It is not a “mature ecosystem” that they have, when it comes to VR.

Personally, I may be interested when a second or third generation Vision Pro gets released and the software IS more mature. And when I can do more than watch Avatar, browse photos and the web, and work on a Word document.

I don’t think so. People get lost in the narrow use case of games... but there is a whole world outside of that. Plus you can connect to that via the MacBook Pro with the Vision Pro anyway. I plan to use this as a monitor replacement in many ways.

 

[persona1138]

I don't think Apple's MO is making something totally new that nobody's done before. What they are good at is lowering the resistance threshold just enough so that something that was niche becomes attractive to mainstream users. I think that's what they are doing here with Vision Pro. Whether I'm right, time will tell.

Agreed with that. But they are very late to the game.

I also take issue with a headset that removes the battery but is STILL just as heavy.

Plus, wearing a battery pack in general… Which means I need to wear pants. (Trust me, when you’re jumping around in your living room playing Beat Saber, it’s best without pants.)

And the capacity is only 2 hours. Which is dreadful. (Yes, you can plug it in, but you’re really just limited to sitting/standing in one location, which defeats half the purpose of a VR headset.)

Having no controllers and just using hand tracking is cool (which the Quest Pro can do, as well). But the trade-off is that controllers are more precise AND - most importantly - give you haptic feedback. That tactile feeling when using a Quest, Index, etc. is important when you’re interacting with a 3D environment where nothing is “real.” So, I have my reservations there.

The FaceTime avatars are creepy, full-stop. And who’s going to take 3D photos/videos of their kids to - as Apple said - “capture that special moment?” Seriously, my kids are playing, and I’m going to strap on a headset (and battery pack) to capture the moment while they stare at my cold, virtually-generated eyes behind a ski mask? I don’t think so. I’ll just use my iPhone, thanks.

I also find it curious that practically no one’s tried the virtual keyboard, and still suggests that using an actual keyboard is probably the way to go. I’m sure the hand gestures are good for basic navigation, but that omission makes me question how accurate the hand tracking is. (And it needs to be accurate for me to use it for work.)

Plus, that price. Over 3 times the price of other high-end headsets (like the Index or Quest Pro.) Over 10 times more than the Quest 2. When VR/AR has already been a struggle to catch on, that cost barrier is one more hurdle. But then, it would be a challenge at any price, clearly.

There’s several design decisions - and a lack of software - that are concerning.

I’m certain from a technical standpoint (optics, audio, etc.) and integration with the Mac, it’ll be great.

But in some ways, Apple introduced NEW problems.

We’ll see how it does, I guess.

 

[phenste]

I didn't watch it...so it sounds like you can. Good news. I was thinking it had it's own operating system and would have to use apps like the photo app or similar.

it does have its own OS & can be used as a monitor for any Mac at the same time. it's really quite brilliant implementation, especially with hardware keyboard/trackpad support. can see this as a game-changer if they get their iterations down properly, i.e. lowering the price/refining certain parts of the technology (EyeSight looks incredibly weird at the moment, hate to say it).

 

[Pakaku]

In five years these comments are going to be great to go back and read just like the iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AirPods ones are...

It will probably become relatively popular just by having Apple hype backing it, but at that price point, I can't see it becoming a big daily thing like Airpods or an iPhone are.

 

[Analog Kid]

So why, in your estimation, have VR headsets (which I love and own several) not caught on in the last 7-8 years, despite many high-end products with the exact same software features for years?

My opinion? They haven't caught on because the makers have been cost conscious and/or fallen short on capabilities. All indications are that AVP works where others simply don't. If a product is going to catch on, if it's going to create a new category of tech, first it has to work.

I understand why others have been taking that tack, but I think that's why adoption has failed-- they're just not functional. Apple, I believe, has taken the right path-- we have highly evolved vision systems and if you're going to get this thing to work you can not compromise on the visual interface. It doesn't matter how expensive that makes it-- a higher price means less potential customers, but a compromised product means never getting past the gimmick stage.

Other products made, what they probably consider acceptable compromises to keep cost down, but when considered together just make the product unpleasant to use. The indications so far are that Apple didn't make those compromises, or at least made better ones.

So when you say "many high end products", I'm not sure what you'd point to. Quest Pro? It has less than 7m pixels for both eyes. Hololens? Probably a few more than that (2k 3:2 versus 1:1 for QP). AVP: 23m pixels. Not cheap.

Hololens chose passthrough optics, which makes contrast challenging. AVP uses cameras to resolve that.

AVP doesn't require controllers and doesn't require to you put your hand in front of your face to interact with the world.

I'm not sure what the weight of AVP is, but most people don't seem to find it uncomfortable. Apple took the battery off of your head and used some of that weight savings to make a better product. Quest Pro is 720g, Hololens is 566g.

I don't think of quality hardware when I think of Facebook, and the stupid metaverse push has been a turn off for me. Microsoft had the best chance of bringing serious applications to mixed reality, but they seem to have stalled and the device feels cheaply made, frankly-- probably to save weight.

$300 is a good price if you're goal is to get under the Christmas tree, but if you're in it for the long game then you need to build the best example of your vision possible and have the staying power to wait for the market to come to you.

 

[cupcakes2000]

It will probably become relatively popular just by having Apple hype backing it, but at that price point, I can't see it becoming a big daily thing like Airpods or an iPhone are.

The price point is nothing when compared to apple or even industry price points in general -including the iPhone you mentioned. Tell me even 6 or 7 years ago that a single phone with as much of a market share as an iPhone will on average cost around a thousand. Stuff’s expensive man. It’s only going to get more so, not less so.

 

[funky_d]

Hololens chose passthrough optics, which makes contrast challenging. AVP uses cameras to resolve that.

I think this is where Apple went wrong... even with stereo cameras, how can you have true depth of field when you're viewing video? Especially when some journalists noted they could notice the black borders in their peripheral vision. It's also impossible for there to be absolutely zero latency... even the tiniest amount of latency is going to result in an odd feeling or a headache after extended use. Obviously none of this can be confirmed until the devices are available and people can use them for over an hour.

The ideal tech IMO would be an OLED screen that can go completely translucent, with an outer screen that can go completely dark. But as far as I know, this doesn't exist yet. And that's why I think every other company has been unwilling to take the risk on a device like this: there are still too many compromises.

 

[Night Spring]

Agreed with that. But they are very late to the game.

I also take issue with a headset that removes the battery but is STILL just as heavy.

Plus, wearing a battery pack in general… Which means I need to wear pants. (Trust me, when you’re jumping around in your living room playing Beat Saber, it’s best without pants.)

And the capacity is only 2 hours. Which is dreadful. (Yes, you can plug it in, but you’re really just limited to sitting/standing in one location, which defeats half the purpose of a VR headset.)

Having no controllers and just using hand tracking is cool (which the Quest Pro can do, as well). But the trade-off is that controllers are more precise AND - most importantly - give you haptic feedback. That tactile feeling when using a Quest, Index, etc. is important when you’re interacting with a 3D environment where nothing is “real.” So, I have my reservations there.

The FaceTime avatars are creepy, full-stop. And who’s going to take 3D photos/videos of their kids to - as Apple said - “capture that special moment?” Seriously, my kids are playing, and I’m going to strap on a headset (and battery pack) to capture the moment while they stare at my cold, virtually-generated eyes behind a ski mask? I don’t think so. I’ll just use my iPhone, thanks.

I also find it curious that practically no one’s tried the virtual keyboard, and still suggests that using an actual keyboard is probably the way to go. I’m sure the hand gestures are good for basic navigation, but that omission makes me question how accurate the hand tracking is. (And it needs to be accurate for me to use it for work.)

Plus, that price. Over 3 times the price of other high-end headsets (like the Index or Quest Pro.) Over 10 times more than the Quest 2. When VR/AR has already been a struggle to catch on, that cost barrier is one more hurdle. But then, it would be a challenge at any price, clearly.

There’s several design decisions - and a lack of software - that are concerning.

I’m certain from a technical standpoint (optics, audio, etc.) and integration with the Mac, it’ll be great.

But in some ways, Apple introduced NEW problems.

We’ll see how it does, I guess.

I agree with all the problems you point out, except perhaps the controller part. I believe they mentioned you can pair a controller if you want. So if you need more precision or haptic feedback for certain applications, you can add a controller. Same with keyboard -- if the onscreen keyboard isn't good enough, pair a Bluetooth keyboard.

But I think the fact that you don't need a keyboard or controller to start using this thing, is one of the factors that lowers the resistance threshold.

As for the battery, I can already see a robust third-party market for battery holders that attach it to your body somehow.

This is definitely a first-gen/beta product, with a lot of kinks to be worked out. It may be 2-3 years, or even more, before it's truly ready for the mass market. But I, for one, feel optimistic it'll get there.

 

[cupcakes2000]

I think this is where Apple went wrong... even with stereo cameras, how can you have true depth of field when you're viewing video? Especially when some journalists noted they could notice the black borders in their peripheral vision. It's also impossible for there to be absolutely zero latency... even the tiniest amount of latency is going to result in an odd feeling or a headache after extended use. Obviously none of this can be confirmed until the devices are available and people can use them for over an hour.

The ideal tech IMO would be an OLED screen that can go completely translucent, with an outer screen that can go completely dark. But as far as I know, this doesn't exist yet. And that's why I think every other company has been unwilling to take the risk on a device like this: there are still too many compromises.

I think until you have tried it then you can’t really opine about it.

As to your other point I think we should be able to just conjure AR at our whim. But, the tech doesn’t exist yet.

 

[persona1138]

If you were to do a poll of average consumers, hell, even tech consumers, and ask "what do you use the Meta Quest for" you'd likely overwhelming hear "gaming." Can Quest do the other things? Is it marketing itself as capable of doing other things? Of course. But the general public still thinks of these devices as gaming devices. And the reviews of them have been ho-hum. Gimmicky. Glitchy. Tiring. Nausea. Perhaps the new Quest 3 will kill all of those perceptions.

But even if your myriad of comments here, you've derided Apple for not focusing on gaming. But gaming is the use-case that has made these devices niche. Most people don't want to jump around with goggles on, without or without pants.

Apple is selling a different vision. Not only general computing (which you say you do seamlessly on your devices), but general computing in an EcoSystem that many people are already invested in.

But you also say Apple is late to the game in an industry that hasn't really caught on yet. Why hasn't it caught on yet? You seem at once a fan of VR and a doomsayer or the tech. I'd suggest is hasn't caught on yet due to a lack of technological progress married to a compelling eco system.

But now we'll see. I think Apple has cracked the market. The markets is certainly watching.

VR isn’t “doomed.” It’s niche. And it will remain niche until they can make it as easy as wearing a pair of sunglasses.

And the reason for my “myriad” of comments is because many folks here have clearly not used a lot of VR headsets and seem to be mistaken about their capabilities. I’m just trying to help, honestly.

The Quest Pro isn’t glitchy and hasn’t caused me any nausea. Neither has my Valve Index. Or my PSVR2.

For the 10th time, I’m sure Apple will integrate features better than anyone has. I’m sure the optics will be class-leading. The seamless transition between AR and VR is exciting. And I think Apple should absolutely be in the VR/AR space.

But I have major, and - I think - valid reservations about some of their choices. And their touting of 7 year old software capabilities as “revolutionary.”

We’ll see how it does!

 

[fafner]

Having no controllers and just using hand tracking is cool (which the Quest Pro can do, as well). But the trade-off is that controllers are more precise AND - most importantly - give you haptic feedback. That tactile feeling when using a Quest, Index, etc. is important when you’re interacting with a 3D environment where nothing is “real.” So, I have my reservations

They demoed that you could use a standard game controller and of course you could add other controllers If you want. They propably have tracking for external controllers in the API.

Plus, that price. Over 3 times the price of other high-end headsets (like the Index or Quest Pro.) Over 10 times more than the Quest 2.

A high end XR headset like the Vajo XR3 cost $6500 and you need a RTX 4900 to run it…

 

[cupcakes2000]

But I have major, and - I think - valid reservations about some of their choices. And their touting of 7 year old software capabilities as “revolutionary.”

I asked before but you failed to point them out. Can you please clarify what you mean? Aside movies (obviously) what is apple claiming that’s been done since 7years?

 

[persona1138]

I agree with all the problems you point out, except perhaps the controller part. I believe they mentioned you can pair a controller if you want. So if you need more precision or haptic feedback for certain applications, you can add a controller. Same with keyboard -- if the onscreen keyboard isn't good enough, pair a Bluetooth keyboard.

But I think the fact that you don't need a keyboard or controller to start using this thing, is one of the factors that lowers the resistance threshold.

As for the battery, I can already see a robust third-party market for battery holders that attach it to your body somehow.

This is definitely a first-gen/beta product, with a lot of kinks to be worked out. It may be 2-3 years, or even more, before it's truly ready for the mass market. But I, for one, feel optimistic it'll get there.

Yeah, I saw their promotion of using a PS5 controller for games. Which is… ok in VR. The early VR headsets just used XBOX controllers.

I was more talking about controllers like the PlayStation Sense controllers, Valve Index, Quest, or Vive ones. Controllers that have pinpoint accuracy in 3D space and haptic feedback where it feels like you’re actually “touching” things. (Not just using an analog stick to move my characters around on a big virtual screen.)

And oh man, you aren’t wrong. There will be third party straps and fanny packs and custom head straps and cables galore.

 

[ApeBot]

The porn industry is going to go nuts on the 3D

 

[persona1138]

I asked before but you failed to point them out. Can you please clarify what you mean? Aside movies (obviously) what is apple claiming that’s been done since 7years?

Movies. Integration with computers and a virtual computer screen. Browsing your photos “in a completely new way” (according to their video). Remote conversations with other people with a virtual avatar (look up VRChat, among others). Browsing the web with just a flick smoothly (you can do that in any VR headset, and even with just your hands with the same pinch maneuver in the Quest Pro). Collaborating on a Word or Excel document.

Basically, every single software feature they demoed has been around for a VERY long time.

The only truly “new” features are the smooth, user-scalable transition between AR and VR (which is neat). And the taking of 3D photos and video (which looks creepy AF in their presentation).

 

[Night Spring]

I was more talking about controllers like the PlayStation Sense controllers, Valve Index, Quest, or Vive ones. Controllers that have pinpoint accuracy in 3D space and haptic feedback where it feels like you’re actually “touching” things. (Not just using an analog stick to move my characters around on a big virtual screen.)

And oh man, you aren’t wrong. There will be third party straps and fanny packs and custom head straps and cables galore.

Do you need controllers with pinpoint accuracy, if selecting objects just by looking at them works as well as the reviews claim?

And I'm looking forward to all the crazy ideas for holding the battery -- it's going to be hilarious!

 

[ThunderSkunk]

I just hate the thought that my kids are going to grow up in a world where everyone works at home in isolation, and when they venture out, they have goggles on to stay in their virtual system. And we'll wonder why nobody has any social skills.

Too late, we’ve been seeing that for a solid decade already. For about 30 years it’s been bolstered by trends in parenting and the mainstreaming of gaming, as isolated indoor entertainment has taken over outdoor public recreation. The effects are wide reaching, from physical effects of sedentary lifestyles, stunted social development, the disappearance of entire sports and disuse of public parks and elimination of their resources. It’s American culture now.

 

[persona1138]

Do you need controllers with pinpoint accuracy, if selecting objects just by looking at them works as well as the reviews claim?

And I'm looking forward to all the crazy ideas for holding the battery -- it's going to be hilarious!

I’m certain basic inputs like selecting and scrolling will be totally fine. (Eye selection already works great in the PSVR2, and those basic hand gestures work great on the Quest Pro.)

But I find it super-suspicious that no one’s tried the virtual keyboard. (And even in the video here on MacRumors, Dan says a physical keyboard in AR is probably best.)

Which tells me that pinpoint accuracy may leave something to be desired.

For example, there are a lot of 3D sculpting apps in VR, where you can use controllers to draw and create 3D objects or art in space. It’s really cool. But it needs pinpoint accuracy to be effective.

I mean, even imagine trying to place a photo in an Word document in the Vision Pro with just your hands. Twist, scale, move it exactly where you want, crop it, etc. It needs to be really accurate for that to not be frustrating.

 

[jimbobb24]

the Quest Pro can do, as well). But the trade-off is that controllers are more precise AND - most importantly - give you haptic feedback. That tactile feeling when using a Quest, Index, etc. is important when you’re interacting with a 3D environment where nothing is “real.” So, I have my reservations there.

The FaceTime avatars are creepy, full-stop. And who’s going to take 3D photos/videos of their kids to - as Apple said - “capture that special moment?” Seriously, my kids are playing, and I’m going to strap on a headset (and battery pack) to capture the moment while they stare at my cold, virtually-generated eyes behind a ski mask? I don’t think so. I’ll just use my iPhone, thanks.

Plus, that price. Over 3 times the price of other high-end headsets (like the Index or Quest Pro.) Over 10 times more than the Quest 2. When VR/AR has already been a struggle to catch on, that cost barrier is one more hurdle. But then, it would be a challenge at any price, clearly.

There’s several design decisions - and a lack of software - that are concerning.

I’m certain from a technical standpoint (optics, audio, etc.) and integration with the Mac, it’ll be great.

The "X device also does that". Reviewers who have done them all basically were blown away...that the old stuff says it can do it but...just checked a box and the implementation was terrible.

3D controllers will be common, but Apple isn't aiming at games so they dont care. Apple has a different vision.

"Who's going to take videos of their kids?" Well, as far as I can tell....everyone does that. With big devices, with small devices. I think thats not going to be a problem for a second.

The price is 3 times more than low end VR headsets. It's price parity with professional AR headsets. Wrong comparison, wrong category.

I think this is too expensive and not sure if it has a future. We will see.

 

[-BigMac-]

MR, that keeps leaking Apple secrets, got a press pass?

Yea because 80% of the rumors don't end up eventuating

 

[mk_in_mke]

People look so ridiculous wearing these AR/VR headsets. I've tried a few of them and I couldn't get past it. I guess I'm not a fan of wearing goggles unless I am skiing or underwater. I'm surprised most people's narcissism will allow it, but then again it's all about being glued to a screen or screens and avoiding reality nowadays.

You have to love how narcissistic a poster has to be when he/she issue a fatwa accusing all the potential buyers of being narcissistic. And only them are righteous and can judge others who « avoid reality »

Do you have any comment about the device introduced this week, its use case? Its design? The potential of the device?

 

[jimbobb24]

I’m certain basic inputs like selecting and scrolling will be totally fine. (Eye selection already works great in the PSVR2, and those basic hand gestures work great on the Quest Pro.)

But I find it super-suspicious that no one’s tried the virtual keyboard. (And even in the video here on MacRumors, Dan says a physical keyboard in AR is probably best.)

Which tells me that pinpoint accuracy may leave something to be desired.

For example, there are a lot of 3D sculpting apps in VR, where you can use controllers to draw and create 3D objects or art in space. It’s really cool. But it needs pinpoint accuracy to be effective.

I mean, even imagine trying to place a photo in an Word document in the Vision Pro with just your hands. Twist, scale, move it exactly where you want, crop it, etc. It needs to be really accurate for that to not be frustrating.

Sure...among tech reviewers it has the best eye tracking of any device ever...but it's not "good enough". Some of the jaded ones used words like Magical. Maybe, just maybe, for $3500 Apple solved these problems. Or maybe in 3 generations....I cannot wait to try it and convince my work to buy it.