Virtualization for the (Intel) Mac?

[yac_moda]

Wouldn't this weaken the security of Mac OS? If some form of Windows is running on the computer, wouldn't the holes that are in Windows be there as well? I feel that Windows on Mac OS would probably be more secure than Windows on Windows, I just worry about the backlash about security holes that culd be opened...

NO the OSes are vertically seperated with the opensource virtualization software that is available for Intel.

 

[ccrandall77]

I was excited about this until it registered with me that this is being developed by a Russian company. Sorry, but don't know if I trust a Russian SW company given all the malware and such from Russia and E. Europe. I think I'll wait a while and make sure there isn't spyware or some backdoor tucked into this app.

This is the same reason I waited to use VPC since I don't always trust M$ not to sneak in something like this into their software.

 

[mozmac]

We are ready to switch one of our top clients completely over to Macs as soon as this technology is ready. The main principles have repeatedly expressed their desire to switch. But the lack of a good Outlook counterpart on OS X is the biggest thing holding back the switch. Once Windows can run in virutalization, or through Wine (here's hoping!!!), and once drivers are written to create compatibility, we are switching a lot of computers over. Apple stands to make A LOT OF MONEY if virtualization comes out soon. Steve Jobs should pour a bunch of money into Wine.

 

[joeconvert]

Now, if Parallels' "virtual PC" does indeed translate hardware calls in a similar fashion as Rosetta - well, then this might open up the possibility to launch individual non-native OS X applications without launching an entire operating system to accompany them. There would be a memory savings over M$' VPC, and a speed boost as well (since new Macs are on Intel, and presumably there isn't a lot of translating to do). You could then run Access in a window just like iCal runs in a window on your desktop. You might not then need to actually own a copy of Windows to run Win apps - just the individual applications - though this might be a flight of fancy, since M$ will never provide all the hooks necessary without reverse engineering for their own applications.

This is actuall a tall order. Rosetta is trnaslate hardware calls, but what you are asking for is on the fly presentation of the Windows subsystem and foundation classes via this product. You are thinking more along the lines of what WINE is trying to accomplish with linux and potentially Mac OS X now that the hardware call translation issues has gone away. Paralells product is clearly a VMWare/Virtual PC class product that will in fact need a full Windows install. The two items to take away form this are 1) They might be the first too actually ship for the intel Macs and 2) There prcie seems pretty fair on their Windows based products.

 

[dongmin]

Whoa, there cowboy! I had a look at the current product when I read the headline about it earlier from CNet and, while it will emulate different hardware components such as network devices and sound cards, I didn't notice anything about display adaptors, let alone 3D acceleration. I suspect that while you'll be able to install and run Windows much more simply using this rather than the OnMac.net solution, gaming isn't something that you'll be doing, at least not beyond minesweeper.

Gamers is not the intended target audience for these virtualization software. Hence, I'm not terribly optimistic about game performance or any kind of 3D performance (which is too bad since I'd like to run windows-only 3D apps). Now, some small vendor could focus on gaming, i.e. supporting the Mac graphics cards in the virtualized OS, and make a killing.

Anyways, has anyone actually used a product from these guys? I've seen a lot of snake-oil-type developers (e.g. RealPC) come and go in the emulation/virtualization arena. I'd hold off on getting too excited until something solid actually happens.

I'm betting on the guys on the QEMU/Q project to deliver the first working virtualization solution. But they could use a lot more help.

 

[joeconvert]

I was excited about this until it registered with me that this is being developed by a Russian company. Sorry, but don't know if I trust a Russian SW company given all the malware and such from Russia and E. Europe. I think I'll wait a while and make sure there isn't spyware or some backdoor tucked into this app.

This is the same reason I waited to use VPC since I don't always trust M$ not to sneak in something like this into their software.

I thought the same thing as you, however, they appear to be a US based company that outsources their development to Russian developers. Just like Apple is getting ready to outsource phone support to India. (Sorry couldn't resist)

 

[nagromme]

VPC or something similar like this is the way to go. Even if VPC goes forward, I'm glad to have more choices. All with full native speed or close to it.

Virtualization has two big advantages over dual-booting:

1. You can use ALL your apps at once. With dual-booting, you only have access to your Windows apps OR your Mac apps at any given time. What a hassle, especially if Mac OS is your main web/email/productivity platform and you just need one Windows app from your employer or something.

2. It can run from a hardfile instead of a partition--and that means your Mac is protected from Windows viruses. If you boot Windows on a Mac, then a Mac virus could attack not only the Windows partition, but the Mac partition as well: even if the virus did not have built-in HFS support (which is unlikely but doable), it could still erase your whole hard disk, Mac side and all. Not read and steal your Mac files (only your Windows files), but delete and destroy. Viruses made for pure vandalism aren't the most common kind, but they haven't gone away--look at the recent Kama Sutra worm. Virtualization protects you: it means Windows can only damage itself, unaware of anything outside its virtual hardfile (unless you specifically give it access to share your Mac partition).

I occasionally need Windows to test things for clients of mine who use Windows. But I do NOT want Windows viruses threatening my Mac, and I do NOT want to be hacking things or rebooting.

Virtualization to the rescue!

This is all good for the Mac platform--it will sell Macs. And the vast majority of people who buy Macs knowing they have the Windows "comfort zone" to fall back on WILL still use Mac OS as well. Very few will actually not even bother to try Mac OS and iLife when they've paid for them. In fact, many people who buy a Mac "because it can run Windows" won't actually do so. The safety net of knowing they could will be enough to make them buy, but they won't want to in the end. (Plus for the sake of using your old Windows apps, the simplest answer is also the cheapest: just hang onto your old PC on the side.)

I'm not worried about dire harm to Mac software development either: by growing the Mac platform, this will in fact help developers sell software. People COULD settle for Windows apps, but they won't WANT to. Demand is there--and growing--for real Mac apps, and demand is what gives developers the sales they need. After all, people ALREADY can settle for Windows apps: keep an old PC, or use VPC on PPC. "Settling" may get easier and faster now that we're on Intel, but it's still "settling." Using Windows isn't good enough for most Mac users, and using Windows apps isn't either.

 

[FoxyKaye]

...I have a question though: will we have the same type of driver issues those trying to run windows on their macs using the dual booting method have? Could I install this virtualization program and then play Half-Life 2?

In order: probably yes, since OS X uses OpenGL and Windows uses Direct X, and, probably not.

Wouldn't this weaken the security of Mac OS? If some form of Windows is running on the computer, wouldn't the holes that are in Windows be there as well? I feel that Windows on Mac OS would probably be more secure than Windows on Windows, I just worry about the backlash about security holes that culd be opened...

Well, maybe, maybe not. A lot of the Windows viruses and such rely on Windows-specific OS weaknesses. While a virus or other malware might affect the installation of Windows on an Intel Mac, it should be contained within that installation (folks will be no better or worse than they would if they were running Windows on a Dell, Gateway or HP PC). However, the capability for these viruses (virii, as you will 😛) to jump hosts to OS X is probably very small, since they simply won't execute in a native OS X environment.

 

[yac_moda]

I was excited about this until it registered with me that this is being developed by a Russian company. Sorry, but don't know if I trust a Russian SW company given all the malware and such from Russia and E. Europe. I think I'll wait a while and make sure there isn't spyware or some backdoor tucked into this app.

This is the same reason I waited to use VPC since I don't always trust M$ not to sneak in something like this into their software.

http://www.parallels.com/en/company/

"About Us

Parallels, Inc. is a privately held, fast-growing software company based in Herndon, Virginia that is entirely focused on developing industry-leading workstation and server virtualization technologies. The Parallels team is one of the most mature in the industry. Core team members have been involved in software development, testing, and deployment since 1995, and have been entirely focused on virtualization technologies since 1999."

 

[FoxyKaye]

This is actuall a tall order. Rosetta is trnaslate hardware calls, but what you are asking for is on the fly presentation of the Windows subsystem and foundation classes via this product. You are thinking more along the lines of what WINE is trying to accomplish with linux and potentially Mac OS X now that the hardware call translation issues has gone away. Paralells product is clearly a VMWare/Virtual PC class product that will in fact need a full Windows install. The two items to take away form this are 1) They might be the first too actually ship for the intel Macs and 2) There prcie seems pretty fair on their Windows based products.

Yeah - I know. But a girl can dream...

 

[ccrandall77]

I thought the same thing as you, however, they appear to be a US based company that outsources their development to Russian developers. Just like Apple is getting ready to outsource phone support to India. (Sorry couldn't resist)

I don't know if that's any better since Russian programmers are writing the SW.

I hate to sound bigotted, but hey, when your country is known for such things you have to prove to me that your on the up and up before I'll trust.

 

[Doctor Q]

I wonder why there wasn't a contest to do this so we would've gotten this solution for free, like how we got dual-booting MacOSX and WinXP lol

Contests produce quick-and-dirty implementations, not products, and no product support. Open source is a viable alternative to commercial development, but contests are not.

 

[gkhaldi]

Yes Yes Yes !!!!!!

Now that's the best news I heard since I got my new MacBook Pro 2 months ago 🙂 🙂 🙂

 

[Marx55]

Apple, help to bring all this to Mactel and we will replace all our PC-Windows-Linux boxes at our University computing facilities with Mactels. We need machines capable of working with all major OSes, including Windows and Linux.

This alone will boost the Mac market share from 3-4% to 20-30% in a few years.

Apple: go for it as a built-in feature of Mactel machines and Mac OS X itself. Once Windows and Linux people taste the great Mac OS X, they will forget about Windows and Linux.

And there is no danger of developers moving from Mac OS X to Windows or Linux, because what makes Mac OS X unique and great is the interface. We want Mactels to run Mac software, but the possibility to run Windows and Linux is a tremendous guarantee for any people using now such OSes to switch to Mactel with peace of mind. Actually, the single most important issue preventing people switching is that Macs do not run Windows or do not run the Linux that they want (the one they run on their current PC boxes).

 

[yac_moda]

I don't know if that's any better since Russian programmers are writing the SW.

I hate to sound bigotted, but hey, when your country is known for such things you have to prove to me that your on the up and up before I'll trust.

So I am sure when YOU buy this software YOU will be the ONLY ONE buying it and any claims about its quality will be TOTALLY BOGUS !!!


http://www.parallels.com/en/

"The World’s First Hypervisor-powered Desktop Virtualization Solution: Parallels Workstation 2.1 is the first desktop virtualization solution to include a lightweight hypervisor to dramatically improve virtual machine stability and performance.
Optimized for Hardware Virtualization: Parallels Workstation’s lightweight hypervisor fully supports the features and benefits of next-generation CPUs built on Intel’s Virtualization Technology “VT” architecture.
Strong OS Support: A sophisticated virtual machine engine that offers broad support of x86-based operating systems, including the entire Windows family from 3.1 to XP and Server 2003, several Linux distributions, FreeBSD, Solaris and “legacy” operating systems like OS/2, eComStation and MS-DOS.
Easy to Install, Easy to Use: A powerful wizard enables users to create virtual machines in seconds, and the industry’s most user-friendly management console ensures hassle free control operation.
Lowest TCO: At an industry-leading price of $49.99 per license, Parallels Workstation is the most cost effective desktop virtualization solution available today."

 

[baleensavage]

I think it will be great if someone beats M$ to the punch. M$ is notorious for slow updates and many people rely on VPC for their work and can't therefore update to Intel until it works. If there's an alternative comptitor for VPC then it may level out the playing field.

 

[yac_moda]

Here it is RIGHT HERE, IT WILL BE A GAME WONDERKIN 😱 😎 😀 ...


"Intel Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d), which extends virtualization support into the platform by making it possible to robustly assign IO devices to virtual machines (VMs) in a virtualized system. This enables devices to be driven "directly" by the native/physical driver when assigned to a virtual machine, resulting in significantly faster virtual machine performance."

http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/newfeatures/
"Support for Physical Address Extension (PAE) allows Workstation 2.1 to run on PAE-enabled primary OSes with up to 4GB of RAM."

http://www.parallels.com/en/news/id,8562


"Media/Analyst Contact:
Benjamin Rudolph +1.703.234.5549 ben.rudolph@parallels.com
printer-friendly version
Parallels Workstation 2.1 Offers Superior Hardware Support, New Interface, Free Upgrade
Company also commits to support Intel's new Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O® (VT-d)

March 23, 2006
HERNDON, Virginia – March 23rd, 2006 – Parallels, Inc., (www.parallels.com) today announced the general availability of version 2.1 of its desktop virtualization software, Parallels Workstation. The upgraded version delivers faster performance, better stability, and stronger isolation of virtual machines.

Additional improvements and new features in the popular, easy-to-use, cost-effective virtualization software include:

A completely re-designed interface.
Better hardware support, including USB and wireless networking support, and support for PAE-enabled machines.
Better functionality, including the ability to suspend and resume VM (virtual machine) activity, a new "compact hard disk" feature that helps users manage available hard disk resources, and a more robust tools package that lets users personalize their experience.
Primary and guest support for SUSE Linux 10.
Guest OS support for Sun Solaris.
Improved performance for guest OS/2 virtual machines.
A complete list of Workstation 2.1's new features and functions is available at http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/newfeatures/.

"Parallels Workstation 2.1 is everything you need in a virtualization solution; it offers superlative performance, stability and ease of use, and on top of that, it is by far the most cost-effective solution available," said Benjamin Rudolph, Parallels' Marketing Manager. "This release's impressive performance, feature set and industry-leading, low price point, coupled with free upgrades for current customers and responsive support, reinforce our across-the-board commitment to building virtualization solutions that work for anyone, regardless of computer savvy or budget."

Additionally, Parallels announced that future versions of Parallels virtualization products will offer full support for Intel's next generation of hardware virtualization technology, Intel Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d), which extends virtualization support into the platform by making it possible to robustly assign IO devices to virtual machines (VMs) in a virtualized system. This enables devices to be driven "directly" by the native/physical driver when assigned to a virtual machine, resulting in significantly faster virtual machine performance.

"Intel is delivering relevant innovations for virtualization solution providers including Intel Virtualization Technology for CPU (VTx) and Directed IO (VTd), Dual Core microprocessors and Intel(R) Core(R) Microarchitecture," said David Tuhy, General Manager of Intel's Desktop Products Division. "Parallels has taken full advantage of VTx in Parallels Workstation 2.1, and we look forward to continued collaboration with Parallels on enabling new platform capabilities such as VTd which will help improve the reliability, performance and flexibility of I/O devices on virtual machines."

As part of the company's ongoing efforts to build powerful products that meet any IT budget, Parallels is offering registered Workstation 2.0 customers a free upgrade to version 2.1. Registered users will be receiving an email with instructions on how to receive their 2.1 permanent license key.

New users can purchase licenses at the industry-leading low price of $49.99 directly through the company's online store at http://www.parallels.com/buyonline. New users are also welcome to download and evaluate a free, fully functional trial by visiting the Parallels Download Center at http://www.parallels.com/download.

About Parallels

Parallels is server and workstation virtualization solutions company committed to building powerful, user friendly, cost-effective products that can be used by anyone, from an experienced developer to a computer "newbie" to improve efficiency, lower hardware costs, and reduce operating expenses. The company's products all feature hypervisor technology for strong, stable virtual machines, and an intuitive web-like interface that facilitates zero-training operation. Additionally, Parallels solutions fully support Intel Virtualization Technology architecture, which is optimized to provide superior virtual machine performance. The company is rapidly growing and employs a global team of experienced technical and business professionals. For more information, please visit www.parallels.com.

Media/Analyst Contact

Benjamin H. Rudolph
Marketing Manager, Parallels
703.234.5549 (direct)
202.437.6701 (mobile)
ben.rudolph@parallels.com"

 

[ccrandall77]

So I am sure when YOU buy this software YOU will be the ONLY ONE buying it and any claims about its quality will be TOTALLY BOGUS !!!

I said I'd wait before buying it to make sure that it is a quality product. Your comment makes no sense.

 

[balamw]

I'm betting on the guys on the QEMU/Q project to deliver the first working virtualization solution. But they could use a lot more help.

According to a comment here: http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/02/22/1659201 Parallels is QEMU based and is thus a competitor to Q.

B

 

[daveschroeder]

I don't know if that's any better since Russian programmers are writing the SW.

I hate to sound bigotted, but hey, when your country is known for such things you have to prove to me that your on the up and up before I'll trust.

The fact that the developers are Russian has literally no bearing on whether the software contains spyware or backdoors (wtf?). Also, have you ever heard of MacKiev, or the trend for quite a bit of programming to be done by former Russian nuclear scientists and engineers?

First of all, Parallels is a fairly established, albeit somewhat new, player in the virtualization marketplace. They already have products for Windows and Linux, and it's the first desktop virtualization product on any platform to support Intel VT for virtualization.

It uses a hypervisor layer at the kernel level to directly pass calls to the processor. There is no emulation. Why don't you take a look at the product?

http://www.parallels.com/en/

Datasheet:

http://www.parallels.com/files/upload/Parallels_Workstation_2_1_Datasheet.pdf

White paper:

http://backend.parallels.com/files/upload/Parallels_Workstation_2_1_WhitePaper.pdf

No virtualization products currently are really appropriate for gaming or 3D graphics applications, however, Parallels is also planning on adding such support http://www.parallels.com/en/support/faq/:

"Parallels Workstation virtualizes VGA and SVGA with VESA 3.0 support video card. This allows you to run any 2D graphic application inside guest OS. Direct3D support is in scope for future versions of Parallels Workstation."

Also, the list of *officially supported* guest OSes:

http://www.parallels.com/en/products/guest_os/

And those are just the ones that are officially supported; pretty much any x86 OS should be able to be used.

You may also be interested in this interview:

http://www.virtualization.info/2006/01/virtualizationinfo-interviews.html

For only $50, this is quite a product. Luckily, Parallels saw the value of this market as soon as Apple announced the Intel transition and has been working on a Mac OS X product ever since.

---
Dave Schroeder
University of Wisconsin - Madison
das@doit.wisc.edu
http://das.doit.wisc.edu

 

[baleensavage]

I don't know if that's any better since Russian programmers are writing the SW.

😱 I really don't think that nationality has a direct effect on how good of a programmer someone is. Just remember, some of the worst software out there comes from the good 'ol USA.

 

[yac_moda]

I said I'd wait before buying it to make sure that it is a quality product. Your comment makes no sense.

I am not the only one.

 

[daveschroeder]

According to a comment here: http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/02/22/1659201 Parallels is QEMU based and is thus a competitor to Q.

B

It is most definitely not a competitor to Q, as Q has no virtualization and is slow as molasses because of it. It is using 100% emulated calls.

Once Q/QEMU on Mac OS X gets virtualization, then yes, I suppose you could say it's a "competitor".

Also, I doubt Q/QEMU will support Intel VT anytime soon.

---
Dave Schroeder
University of Wisconsin - Madison
das@doit.wisc.edu
http://das.doit.wisc.edu

 

[crees!]

NOW I will have no significant issues in convincing my parents to switch who are "too old to change and learn something new". Hell, I think I'll just wait for Leapard to be released and buy one right then and there for them.

 

[yac_moda]

The fact that the developers are Russian has literally no bearing on whether the software contains spyware or backdoors (wtf?). Also, have you ever heard of MacKiev, or the trend for quite a bit of programming to be done by former Russian nuclear scientists and engineers?

First of all, Parallels is a fairly established, albeit somewhat new, player in the virtualization marketplace. They already have products for Windows and Linux, and it's the first desktop virtualization product on any platform to support Intel VT for virtualization.

It uses a hypervisor layer at the kernel level to directly pass calls to the processor. There is no emulation. Why don't you take a look at the product?

http://www.parallels.com/en/

Datasheet:

http://www.parallels.com/files/upload/Parallels_Workstation_2_1_Datasheet.pdf

White paper:

http://backend.parallels.com/files/upload/Parallels_Workstation_2_1_WhitePaper.pdf

No virtualization products currently are really appropriate for gaming or 3D graphics applications, however, Parallels is also planning on adding such support http://www.parallels.com/en/support/faq/:

"Parallels Workstation virtualizes VGA and SVGA with VESA 3.0 support video card. This allows you to run any 2D graphic application inside guest OS. Direct3D support is in scope for future versions of Parallels Workstation."

Also, the list of *officially supported* guest OSes:

http://www.parallels.com/en/products/guest_os/

And those are just the ones that are officially supported; pretty much any x86 OS should be able to be used.

You may also be interested in this interview:

http://www.virtualization.info/2006/01/virtualizationinfo-interviews.html

For only $50, this is quite a product. Luckily, Parallels saw the value of this market as soon as Apple announced the Intel transition and has been working on a Mac OS X product ever since.

Thanks for stating the ugly truth.

YES this line of conversation has been QUITE BAZARE 😱