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Viruses for the Mac
- Thread starter AppleTecFan
- Start date
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I forgot that OSX is bullet proof. and I'm also sure that just because you don't know about it, means it doesn't exist. Forgot where I was posting for a minute.
The absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence.
Sure.
But the burden of proof is on those who say true viruses/worms exists for OS X. I can sit here and say unicorns and big foot have parties in my backyard, but don't ask me to show you cuz I can't :
:Alot of people believe that if its a computer and runs an OS then it has viruses, but until you or anyone else shows us one, its a logical fallacy
I agree here because you need to willfully download something that you know will have to be executed. however...
...you simply can't lump porn videos and pics in the same category as warez. Hellhammer simply said, "Avoid porn and other suspicious sites and keep an eye on what you download."
It's not the porn you need to avoid... he should have said, avoid the "pop-ups" which aren't limited to porn sites. Hell, when my kids were like 12, I was nuking their PC's monthly because of all the crap they downloaded via these same type of popups they would encounter at Nickelodeon chat rooms, AOL sites, Brittany Spears fan sites, etc... all seemingly legit places for kids to be at.
But just watching a porn video feed or even downloading it won't hurt anything.
You must not read the news very often. Start with googling Charlie Miller. OS X is not more secure than Windows 7 x64. It is safer because it is attacked far less.
Hopefully 10.6 will begin to change that.
As for getting a trojan from a porn site; the site is just the carrier. The site in question prompts for a codec install, which is a trojan. Not rocket science, and it can happen on Windows, Linux, and OS X. Same goes for the iWork '09 illegal download trojan.
An OS can only go so far to protect a retarded user.
It amazes me that people learn how to use every other tool they operate, such as a car, drill press, belt sander, etc but they can't bring themselves to buy a Dummies/Idiot/Missing Manual and learn how a computer works, along with the corresponding risks.
The absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence.
Sure.
But the burden of proof is on those who say true viruses/worms exists for OS X. I can sit here and say unicorns and big foot have parties in my backyard, but don't ask me to show you cuz I can't :
Alot of people believe that if its a computer and runs an OS then it has viruses, but until you or anyone else shows us one, its a logical fallacy
The burden of proof? It's already been in the news this year, Google it. You didn't hear about the Trojan infected iLife '09 torrent.
These aren't viruses, they are trojans. I don't think many people in this thread understand the difference, and they can't automatically be lumped together.
Please do not change something I said to reflect such ignorance. If you wish to believe OS X is bullet proof because it's received Unix certification, then go right ahead.
But it's certainly not true, and you'd have to have your head in the sand the last year to really believe it.
True. As others have already mentioned.
However, IMHO, porn is the most common because the average user is not thinking with the correct head at that time which makes them more prone to click on something to download.
Trojans. Please see the link I posted earlier, they are listed there (though many are proof of concept, at least 2 are in the wild). And lack of market share is precisely why there is limited malware. You're ignorant if you think otherwise. If OSX was secure immediately upon becoming certified Unix, then why have security patches? Isn't secure because it's Unix? Why is Apple talking about improved security in SL? Wasn't it already secure in Leopard? It's Unix afterall!
I love OS X. I wouldn't have just purchased. 13" MBP if I didn't. But neither you, me, or Apple can afford to turn a blind eye to security, or it'll bite you in the ass someday.
Sorry, you must have not been around these parts very much. We've already figured out that user installed trojans are on the loose. No OS is safe from User stupidity. We want proof of a VIRUS/WORM that travels from mac to mac using exploits. Such a thing does not exist, or atleast you and others say it does, yet come up with no proof, or yell "google it!" like that's supposed to mean something. I guess you'd be happy if apple changed their ad language from "don't have to worry about hundreds of viruses and headaches" to "don't have to worry about your box getting owned as soon as you plug that sucker in, and trojans and viruses won't be an issue unless you are stupid enough to A) pirate applications or B) throw your password at every prompt that asks for it."
OSX.Trojan.iServices.A , OSX.Trojan.iServices.B, or OSX.RSPlug.A, OSX.RSPlug.B, OSX.RSPlug.C, OSX.RSPlug.D , or OSX_LAMZEV.A?
Which one is the virus you are talking about? All of those are user installed trojans. Are there more? Can you provide examples?
Your idea of security would be something where even though you've provided credentials for the highest system wide user (root) the OS still thinks it knows whats best for you and acts accordingly, and thats simply not the case ESPECIALLY for power users who muck around library and system folders. Unfortuntely once you've elevated yourself the OS cannot distinguish a malicious action from a purposeful action done by a power user or a complex application, but to you this is the epitome of insecurity. My hat goes off to your sheer ignorance, sir.
Did you even read my posts in this thread, or even the one you quoted? I said TROJAN, not virus or worm. A user installed Trojan is a redundant statement; that's the only way Trojans are installed.
Did you catch the part where I said Trojans can happen on any OS? Did you catch the part where I said an OS can only protect a user from themselves so much? I'm not the ignorant one here, because I'm not the one who thinks an OS can be invincible, regardless of the vector of attack.
Yes, there are just TROJANS in the wild right now (gee, already said that, but I'll repeat it since we're all apparently having a tough time) but how long do you think it will be before worms or viruses are in the wild? When the market share grows large enough for it to be economically viable for virus or worm writers.
Do you think OS X would be invulnerable to these just because it's based on Unix? No. It would just play on a vulnerability. Had someone exploited the java vulnerability from this year (that was known for months and left unpatched) it would not have required the user to download anything, but rather just accidently visit an infected site. That's as easy as accidently typing in the wrong URL.
So are you telling me that's not a potential problem? My problem with something like that situation is not that there are bugs causing vulnerabilties: it's the fact that Apple knew about it, and didn't do jack about it for months.
Here's a link for those of you having a tough time discerning viruses, worms, and Trojans.
http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Internet/2004/virus.asp
http://www.blackhat.com/html/bh-usa-09/bh-usa-09-archives.html
scroll down to
Dino Dai Zovi
Advanced Mac OS X Rootkits
scroll down to
Dino Dai Zovi
Advanced Mac OS X Rootkits
Dino is a well known OS X hacker, and recently wrote a book on OS X security with Charlie Miller, who has hacked the iPhone as well as the Mac twice, all without the aid of a Trojan horse
but these guys must be imaginary, or they're wasting their time, because OS X is Unix.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pwn2own-mac-hack,2254.html
Please read this article, if you think OS X is invulnerable. It's not that OS X has bugs.....all OSes do, they're just too complex not to have them. Also, no OS can protect a dumb user from themselves (as I've already stated in this thread) and if they download a trojan because of a shady codec or an illegal copy of software, they're going to get infected. An OS isn't going to say "Are you sure? Are you still sure? Are still sure after all that?" It'll ask you once, and allow after that. This goes for Windows, Linux, and OS X.
What the problem is is twofold: first, Apple needs to act faster to fix bugs once they're presented with them. The Java exploit, which was patched for Windows and Linux ages ago, took Apple months to fix, and that could have been exploited by a worm, not a trojan horse, had someone took advantage of it.
Charlie Miller himself in that interview says that bugs for OS X are less valuable. This is because worldwide OS X is only what, 5%? So it isn't more secure, it is less attacked. This makes it safer, which is why he uses it as his main machine, he recommends it to friends and family, and that's why I use it too.
But the second problem with OS X security are the users themselves. Their complacency. If we as users don't put pressure on Apple to fix these problems faster, then they will rest on their laurels, and eventually we will suffer the consequences when/if OS X gains significant market share to make exploiting an OS X bug financially viable to malware writers.
Believe that the marketshare myth isn't true all you want, but I'm more inclined to believe people with proven track records in security than some guy on an internet forum saying OS X is secure because it's Unix.
Someone list some virus names or give a link to a list of it
And please don't post there is no viruses for the Mac, theres viruses for every OS
There are NO viruses for OS X. At all. None.
No, OS X IS more secure. Mr. Miller used a vulnerability in Safari. Solution = use Firefox until Apple get their act together about patching security flaws quickly.
AT THIS TIME. One did exist as an academic exercise.
Actually OS X is only as secure as it's weakest link. And that link is the same weak link that causes all the problems in Windows. It is known as the user..