Vision Pro Creator Mike Rockwell Has Considered Leaving Apple

[crsh1976]

Eh.

You may not like it but vision pro is a halo product to show the way forward in terms of how to build a relevant UI, figuring out app design patterns etc. for what is coming.

Forget the form factor. It’s not ready for mass production yet because we do not yet have the technology.

Something a little larger than a set of glasses though is where it’s headed. Maybe not this year, maybe not next but within 3-5 years that’s what we’re going to get.


Like AI LLMs, augmented reality is going to go from being a bit of a joke to a game changing technology very, very rapidly once it hits a critical tipping point.

The halo product thing is a caveat when something is a market failure - not everything about the AVP is off, the hardware tech is indeed interesting, but Apple is struggling to define convincing use cases to make "spatial computing" take off. It's not a hardware problem, the "why" is still unanswered - and no amount of marketing is going to fix that.

The critical tipping point isn't happening until they sort that out.

 

[thelion7]

Eh.

You may not like it but vision pro is a halo product to show the way forward in terms of how to build a relevant UI, figuring out app design patterns etc. for what is coming.

Forget the form factor. It’s not ready for mass production yet because we do not yet have the technology.

Something a little larger than a set of glasses though is where it’s headed. Maybe not this year, maybe not next but within 3-5 years that’s what we’re going to get.


Like AI LLMs, augmented reality is going to go from being a bit of a joke to a game changing technology very, very rapidly once it hits a critical tipping point.

That's an interesting take.

Kind of like how the iPhone Air could be considered a proof of concept in terms of manufacturing a slimmer profile for the iPhone fold.

Apple would have loved for the Air to be a roaring success (based on their definition of success through sales numbers)

But maybe that wasn't their overall focus?

Maybe it was, if we can make a functioning phone this thin, then we can take the same chassis concept and join the two with a hinge.

Because if the used the iPhone standard 17 model chassis and stuck a hinge on them you'd have a brick.

Also the good thing about the Fold is because you have two chassis to work with you can most likely re-arrange components so stuff fits such as a double camera (not important to me) or Stereo Speakers (a deal breaker for me) and of course a bigger battery to drive both displays when unfolded.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

The halo product thing is a caveat when something is a market failure - not everything about the AVP is off, the hardware tech is indeed interesting, but Apple is struggling to define convincing use cases to make "spatial computing" take off. It's not a hardware problem, the "why" is still unanswered - and no amount of marketing is going to fix that.

The critical tipping point isn't happening until they sort that out.

Disagree. You want this guy creeping around your birthday party?

 

[crsh1976]

Disagree. You want this guy creeping around your birthday party?

View attachment 2624017

Does it matter how big or small the goggles are if they serve no purpose?

 

[Happy_John]

Ok here is the problem with the vision pro, pure and simple....IT COST TOO DAMN MUCH. 3499 IS AN INSANE AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR A PRODUCT THAT HAS NO CLEAR DEFINED USE. Its an amazing technical product, no doubt about it, but their is no way your average consumer is going to drop that kind of money for a novelty luxuary item that isnt a laptop that can get actual work done.

Apple did something amazing with the vision pro but killed it before it ever launched with that price point, because in order for VR and AR to succeed it has to afforable and apple is missing the mark completely here with its price point. Yes i get it has breakthough high end tech and that costs alot, but i truly believe if apple put out a "Air" version of the Vision pro at a much lower price, it would work.

Heres the core problem. Meta (yes say what you will about their privacy issues) has got them beat on the hardware front on every catagory when it comes to VR/AR Headsets and smart glasses. I own 2 pairs of Smart Glasses which are just cameras, speakers and an Ai, and the Meta Quest 3 which is a really cool VR/AR headset for 500 dollars (But i think the price went up recently).

its a wonderful gaming system, and i use it all the time, but its app support isnt the greatest. If you buy it as a gaming platform, i think you will be happy but in no way shape or form is it a genuine productivy tool.

IF APPLE MATCHED WHAT META IS DOING IN THE VR SPACE it would dominate the market overnight. You give me a apple version of the Meta quest 3 with the apple ecosystem, the ability to send messages, video chat, music, appletv all built in like most other apple products, for under 1000 dollars, you have yourself a massive adoption rate and support for the platform.

The vision pro does all of that, but way over priced. You dont need that idiotic front facing screen with the eyes. You dont need aluminum in the unit that adds weight and makes the device unconfortable to use for long periods of time and increases the cost of the device and this idea that it will replace computers...is a far fetched dream.

You market it as an entertainment device. As steve jobs said, "Headphones for the eyes" and you have a system that flies off the shelves at 1000-1500 dollars MAX.

3500 Dollars is the cost of a used car, or months worth of rent and bills. No sane person who isnt wealthy is going to buy something like that.

Im an early adopter and im far from wealthy and yes if i had the money id buy an apple vision pro today if i could. But i live in the real world with real bills to pay and as much as i love AR/VR tech it doesnt keep a roof over my head. It does me no good owning an apple vision pro if im out in the street using it.

If John Turnus is smart, he wont kill the line, but will put out a lower cost affordable version of it. I truly hope he does. I do think the tech is amazing and will EVENTUALLY make its way into every day use...but thats never going to happen at 3500 dollars.

Get rid of the front "eye" screen - it is a pointless expense. Are it a completely tethered device - move as much as the processing as possible onto another device- the optimal device would be a Mac mini, but presumably any modern M chip equipped machine (we know it works with M2 ). The headset itself should only be internal screens, sensors, and the minimum amount of comment and processing to support the image to your eyes and sensor control.

That should cut down both weight and price. The idea that the Vision Pro would be completely stand-alone is not effective at this point in time, and I find it hard to believe that someone who is prepared to buy a Visions pro does not own at least one Mac.

Tetherrng is NOT an issue, because, really, people are not walking around the streets using Vision Pros. Tethering (cable or wireless) and power delivery through a cable from a Mac will be fine with home use or traveling on a plane.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Disagree. You want this guy creeping around your birthday party?

View attachment 2624017

I like to think this is the guy whose wife forgot his birthday and so she scrambled to have her iPhone make a "photo memory" for him as a gift.

(the horrendously ill conceived Apple AD from a while back)

 

[thelion7]

it does have a clear use...a personal entertainment system...apple just has to market it as such. HEADPHONES FOR THE EYES...your not going to write a novel on it. Your not going to program an app or cure cancer on it, but as an entertainment device, like the airpods max...it has a use. You just need to know what that use is and market it to people.

Although, I haven't been keeping up with the Vision Pro.

The last time I checked, the licks of Netflix didn't fully support it for native viewing in their app.

To some people the Vision Pro is game changing for research, design and such.

For others, it's a cool concept to how you interact with your Mac or daily use cases.

For an even smaller amount of people, it would be a great streaming device.

The only problem is at it's current price it's too expensive to justify outside of the research and design concepts or for the average Apple user.

They'll be some enthusiasts who have and love this but there's not enough of them to drive the product forward in terms of developers fully adopting the product to their apps and services.

 

[turbineseaplane]

it does have a clear use...a personal entertainment system...apple just has to market it as such. HEADPHONES FOR THE EYES...your not going to write a novel on it. Your not going to program an app or cure cancer on it, but as an entertainment device, like the airpods max...it has a use. You just need to know what that use is and market it to people.

You do realize I was quoting you, saying:

"A PRODUCT THAT HAS NO CLEAR DEFINED USE."

 

[MRSugarD]

He better.

 

[chairguru22]

For a wearable idea: Build a band or bracelet that tracks all the data of a watch but without a screen. Like an Apple version of a Whoop. AND build something that can be seamlessly worn under or attached to an existing analog watch like a Rolex.

People DO NOT want to wear smart glasses.

 

[btrach144]

AVP App Store has literally zero interesting apps.

Nobody can afford the device. So there’s not a meaningful market for developers.

As of right now, it’s a failure of a device.

 

[SpaceJello]

The Vision Pro wasn’t launched to make significant sales yet. It was to prep the developers to start building apps for it and get used to designing similar devices. And for Apple to sort out any potential issues,

Give it a few years when technology and mass production catches up to finally make the Vision Pro or glasses a reasonable purchase.

 

[Steve Adams]

Vision Pro was launched too soon and I'm guessing that's Tim's fault as the rumours were he wanted it out ASAP.

Maybe they drop the price, take the financial hit but get far more people and app developers into the device. And then roll out a new, lighter (hopefully) version. I don't see glasses performing as effective as the headset.

The technology is cool - Apple should try to partner with the major sports or musicians. Imagine throwing on the headset and bam - watching a live game courtside or front row seats for your favourite band. Make it a subscription if need be (yeah I know another one!)

But rumours are Ternus isn't a fan of AVP so it may be shelved.

I have said this from the beginning. Apple should get with the major sports organizations. NHL NFL MLB NBA MLS. Etc and have a 360 camera at every stadium so you can go there for every game. And cut 2000 off the 3500 dollar price tag. I would have one then.

 

[FatLouie]

Sounds great to me.
A re-entry into this space, if one is to happen, needs a ground up re-think on strategy anyways.

I'd shelve the public concept on this and keep iterating in the lab on various concepts for now.

Absolutely! This is where Apple screwed up big. Had it been left in the lab, they would have had time to refine and decide what the good concepts were and what were bad implementations. But someone had visions of grandeur and pushed the device into the mainstream of user consciousness... and it failed completely.

That failure is now locked into user consciousness, and only the stoutest of Apple's fanboys can justify AVP being on the market. The problem is that the average Apple user will remember this failure and the device's utter uselessness. That is a hard row to hoe for the Apple people who look at the financials. They will probably have something to say about AVP's future. I seriously doubt that Ternus wants to continue a bad idea...but he may. <<shrug>>

 

[WarmWinterHat]

The Vision Pro wasn’t launched to make significant sales yet. It was to prep the developers to start building apps for it and get used to designing similar devices. And for Apple to sort out any potential issues,

Give it a few years when technology and mass production catches up to finally make the Vision Pro or glasses a reasonable purchase.

Developers aren't going to build apps for a product that few people use and might have no future.

 

[sw1tcher]

Forget the form factor. It’s not ready for mass production yet because we do not yet have the technology.

The Vision Pro can be mass produced. The reason we're not seeing mass production of it is because of lack of demand.

Why would Apple place orders to have more Vision Pros be made than they can sell?

 

[jkmoses]

That actually makes it a "bad product".

Anyone who has worked in a tech company knows this reeks of being someone's "pet project," regardless of what a bad idea it was, and was probably talked about behind the person's back.

 

[boswald]

AVP today = View attachment 2624004

AVP in 10 years = View attachment 2624005

I'd rock a Pip Boy if I could.

 

[xander49x]

They know that it is time to leave with the changeover, can't blame them, there is something off on Ternus.

 

[neuropsychguy]

"However, that trajectory has gone south because the Vision Pro has struggled to find a mainstream audience"

It wasn't targeted at the mainstream. Edit: For anyone not believing this, that was clear from the get-go with the price. A mainstream audience product would be significantly less expensive (Air or Neo-type pricing).

I don't have one and am not buying one -- it's not for me -- but it was an expensive tech demo leading into the next product and the next one after that.

 

[tennisproha]

Vision Pro was ahead of its time. It’s a proof of concept release of what’s to come in XR. People harp on about it like the HomePod paperweight isn’t a product failure.

Eddy Cue needs to go. He’s responsible for iCloud still being in beta a decade later, for iTunes being removed without a replacement, and for the general stagnancy in services for Music and TV

 

[The_Gream]

Eh.

You may not like it but vision pro is a halo product to show the way forward in terms of how to build a relevant UI, figuring out app design patterns etc. for what is coming.

Forget the form factor. It’s not ready for mass production yet because we do not yet have the technology.

Something a little larger than a set of glasses though is where it’s headed. Maybe not this year, maybe not next but within 3-5 years that’s what we’re going to get.


Like AI LLMs, augmented reality is going to go from being a bit of a joke to a game changing technology very, very rapidly once it hits a critical tipping point.

The AVP in my book is like the Newton from the early 90s. Way ahead of its time, and to many people give it a hard time. I 100% it’s a stepping stone into the future of what will be common tech.

 

[foobarbaz]

It's really hard to say from the outside who is responsible for the failure of the Vision Pro. Could be that Rockwell delievered exactly what Tim Cook ordered. I mean, all the flaws were already in the concept. The execution seems pretty solid.

I can totally see a possibility that he's a good manager who got dealt a losing project and finished it gracefully. I'd be frustrated, too, if that limited my career. And the jury is still out on his Siri overhaul.

 

[stocklen]

I'm sure that Apple has sold MANY more $3,500 MacBook Pro laptops than $3,500 Vision Pro headtops.

And how many MORE MacBook Airs do you think they sold than the $3,500 pro versions - an order of magnitude I imagine.

products made for high end users to satisfy a demanding yet relatively niche workflow demand.
They can and will justify spending that amount on hardware.

Vision Pro has no such use case. Its a toy and few can justify spending that much on one.

 

[ry-guy]

I'd rock a Pip Boy if I could.

Check out the Cyberdeck community. Im sure you could make one yourself. Someone put an ai on a Raspberry pi zero 2 with a small screen so, its possible.