Vision Pro is the definition of function over form

[code-m]

After using Vision Pro to now almost a week, I am still feeling like Vision Pro would’t gain much popularity after a few generations, and might be destined to fail.


There’s a lot of hype after the VP release, and the hype can be almost blinding to the critical shortcomings of VP: it’s not a good everyday wearable device. It could be THE reason VP won’t be adopted by masses for few generations.

I hope the second/third generations could be a lot lighter and wearable. However, it might just be wishful thinking. The form of a VR headset has evolved for 10 years, and now when Apple is in the game, it’s still kept the same. The sizes and weight has fell a bit, but would never reach a point where it’s comfortable to wear for 8+ hours. After iPhone came out, the overall trend has always been growing larger and heavier. the same for macbook, applewatch, earpods. My point is, given the form of vision pro, it will always be as heavy and bulky, and hopping it gets to a point to be worn comfortably is wishful thinking.

Many of the ppl on the forum favors the direction of function over form. But I think form over function (does not mean no function) was how Apple was so successful. The devices were beautiful, light, easy to carry, desire-able, and frankly, different from all of the competitors. Vision Pro.. at it’s root, still feels like a Quest3 that has more functionality, but not a better form..

Past rumors suggested Apple had two prototypes to choose from: heavy AR headset and lightweight glass like device. I would take a guess that the second died when Ive left the company, but I felt that might actually be what a lot of people would actually use every single day.

When the form is correct , it will get mass adoption, the tech will iron out, and function will come.

When function is the focus, you build a product that’s very technically advanced, not many people wants, and the product gets axed eventually.

Hopefully that won’t happen to VP.🤞

I do not think this device is meant to be strapped to one’s face for 8 hours a day or longer. What strikes me odd is that Apple released a form of screen time where it reminds a user to take a break and focus one’s vision and later on in the same keynote it announces AVP which is counter to this health direction of too much screen time. Unlike other displays where when can quickly adjust distance or even look away the AVP offers none of these with simplicity other than taking it off for a break.

My observation is conflicting if not confusing direction. Healthy vision; Pro, strapping a screen to your eyes; Con.

 

[antiprotest]

Some people would say that the Vision Pro falls short on both function and form.

And of course, function and form cannot be entirely separated (e.g. an unusable form destroys function).

 

[nathansz]

What is the function?

 

[masotime]

I think a lot of people are underestimating the "form" here - this is kind of a revelation for me recently while using it - but because it doesn't come with controllers and the resolution is so high, it means I can use it without needing to have a space to place a device - compared to an iPad, MacBook or even a TV.

I was charging my car and it's usually a long and boring wait, and I don't care much for the in-car entertainment, but I brought my AVP this time, and it was like having your own personal home cinema... EVERYWHERE. Even if you're in the most cramped space, as long as your fingers are visible to the AVP, you basically have a fully functional 360 interface for whatever you need.

This is a kind of convenience I never thought about, but AVP brings it there. The form is the function - with no controllers, as long as you have space to strap it on (and admittedly, juggle the annoying battery in a pocket somewhere) you can basically have a workspace as big as you need.

 

[powerbook911]

I feel like while they'll be able to make it smaller/lighter in future generations, it's not what we'll want.

Many will want 8k per eye, so the size could remain similar. On and on.

We'll have to see though. It surprised me. I didn't expect to like it as much as I do, but I'm blown away. I don't find it particularly difficult to wear with the dual loop.

 

[CrysisDeu]

But you can just snap in your prescription lenses and leave it there. The only time you have to swap it is if you let someone else use it in guest mode. So I don't think this affects everyday use that much.

I meant if you don’t wear it 24/7, you have to keep your own glasses around

 

[turbineseaplane]

This is a kind of convenience I never thought about, but AVP brings it there. The form is the function - with no controllers, as long as you have space to strap it on (and admittedly, juggle the annoying battery in a pocket somewhere) you can basically have a workspace as big as you need.

Conversely, no controller story means it's borderline useless for VR gaming -- which is a huge miss

They really need to come up with some controller accessories of some kind if they are serious about the gaming space

 

[CrysisDeu]

What is the function?

The dual 4k screens, precision eye tracking, sensors, m2 chips are hardware that provides most of the software experience vision pro had. They limit how the form is built.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The dual 4k screens, precision eye tracking, sensors, m2 chips are hardware that provides most of the software experience vision pro had. They limit how the form is built.

But that user asked what the function is..

 

[CrysisDeu]

But that user asked what the function is..

That is what I meant by function in “function over form”. These are a set of things Apple want to provide in this device, and they are limiting the form.

As an example: the mbp chassis looked thicker because Apple wanted better airflow to achieve better thermo performance.

 

[turbineseaplane]

That is what I meant by function in “function over form”. These are a set of things Apple want to provide in this device, and they are limiting the form.

I get that part, but unrelated to what you just said

What is the actual function of the AVP would you say?

It doesn't appear to be gaming (as of now), which is usually the immediate target of any VR HMD

 

[CrysisDeu]

I get that part, but unrelated to what you just said

What is the actual function of the AVP would you say?

It's certainly not gaming, which is usually the low hanging fruit in VR

That is a different topic from this thread, but
1. AVP does have a set of functions, albeit more useful for some people and less for others. Watching movies, seeing 3d objects in 3d, use as an ipad replacement, etc.
2. I don’t think these functionalities grants this device to be $3500, and definitely won’t make it popular.

I think if Apple pursuits another set of functions, which might only require smaller electronics, would enable a smaller device, in turn make it more popular, and you get the benefits of economic of scale.

 

[turbineseaplane]

That is a different topic from this thread, but
1. AVP does have a set of functions, albeit more useful for some people and less for others. Watching movies, seeing 3d objects in 3d, use as an ipad replacement, etc.
2. I don’t think these functionalities grants this device to be $3500, and definitely won’t make it popular.

I think if Apple pursuits another set of functions, which might only require smaller electronics, would enable a smaller device

What do you think it does best

Like if you had to sell me on it, what's the #1 thing it does that is just a must have, super useful, functional, game changer

What would you say?

(I personally think it's a major miss that they didn't have a more fleshed out gaming story out of the gate -- that alone, with the screen quality, could have been somewhat of a hit, even at this price)

 

[CrysisDeu]

What do you think it does best

Like if you had to sell me on it, what's the #1 thing it does that is just a must have, super useful, functional, game changer

What would you say?

For me there is nothing, and Apple didn’t really presented it in WWDC either. They anchored VP to be a Spatial computer, that essentially does 3 things:
1. See 2d apps in 3d
2. See a larger mac monitor, again, 2d monitor
3. Watch a 3d movie

Cheaper devices didn’t find a big enough market, and I doubt apple can

 

[CrysisDeu]

I feel like while they'll be able to make it smaller/lighter in future generations, it's not what we'll want.

Many will want 8k per eye, so the size could remain similar. On and on.

We'll have to see though. It surprised me. I didn't expect to like it as much as I do, but I'm blown away. I don't find it particularly difficult to wear with the dual loop.

I really doubt how MUCH smaller it can get.
It might be getting a bit smaller and lighter, but that will still be 400grams on your head

 

[dotnet]

After using Vision Pro to now almost a week, I am still feeling like Vision Pro would’t gain much popularity after a few generations, and might be destined to fail.

Given its design and usage, and the price tag, I’m sure this was always going to be a niche product rather than one with mass appeal. A bit like a Mac Pro.

 

[nathansz]

The dual 4k screens, precision eye tracking, sensors, m2 chips are hardware that provides most of the software experience vision pro had. They limit how the form is built.

I would have thought those things are all part of the form?

 

[Night Spring]

I meant if you don’t wear it 24/7, you have to keep your own glasses around

Why would that be a problem? I have glasses that I only use for reading, and I carry it around in a case when I'm not wearing it. It's not a big deal. People have sun glasses they wear outside, that they take off and put away when they go indoors. I've known people who had two glasses for different purposes, who carried them both and switched them as needed. Taking off my glasses to put on the VP, and then putting them back on when I'm done using the VP is going to be just as simple.

Conversely, no controller story means it's borderline useless for VR gaming -- which is a huge miss

They really need to come up with some controller accessories of some kind if they are serious about the gaming space

But I thought the VP is compatible with 3rd party controllers, just like iPads and iPhones? So isn't it just up to developers to write games that use those controllers?

 

[Realityck]

This thing is completely different from Vision Pro, it's just a monitor. Only monitor. btw, its actual display is pretty poor, much worse than its presentation.

Yes, but it's like the AVP we are discussing is an all-in-one aside from the battery. In comparison something like the Air 2 Pro wired to a thick iPhone like processing unit with built in battery could be future. That would be like comparing a iMac to a Mac Studio with a Studio Display. Who's to say that in a couple of years the industry won't have 4K displays by then for each eye at a competitive price.

BTW all those 3d films are only 1080P, not really something that shows off a AVP graphics.

Outside those thoughts has anyone that used a AVP at length feel like their eyes get real tired being busy doing a lot of things outside watching a video?

 

[Jamacfer]

For me there is nothing, and Apple didn’t really presented it in WWDC either. They anchored VP to be a Spatial computer, that essentially does 3 things:
1. See 2d apps in 3d
2. See a larger mac monitor, again, 2d monitor
3. Watch a 3d movie

Cheaper devices didn’t find a big enough market, and I doubt apple can

I believe that merely judging the AVP by focusing on its form factor (moreover, the current one in its very first generation) is a wrong approach. The real "revolution" lies in the new "spatial" interface. It is completely different and it will change everything.

As for its “high price” (although I don't hear a lot of criticism around about the price of a branded handbag...) I believe it is deliberately high because right now Apple's interest is not in its mass diffusion but a kind of test to better understand the market, the product itself, and to boost its diffusion among developers. At a later stage, perhaps with an "Air" model they will target the average consumer.

 

[whatitDOODOO]

Form doesn't necessarily mean the way it looks. I think "input" is a really important part of form. The iPhone's "input" aka form is a touchscreen which uses the heat of the finger (among other things) to enable its function, which is a communication device. That's the most zoomed out version.

A macbook's form is a laptop with a screen and keyboard/trackpad input, enabling its computing functions. Form can often be about how a human body can orient itself to a device.

The thing about AVP is that BOTH its form and function are really muddy right now. Most VR things have this same problem.

AVP's Function: Spatial Computing (very vague, and overlaps with regular computing. Much like how an M2 iPad overlaps with an M2 MacBook lol)
AVP's Form: Headset with eye tracking and Hand movements (doesn't do computing as "fast" as physical controls, and necessitates a clunky headset because of a million cameras)

This doesn't bode well for it's growth IMO.

I think the best way we can describe AVP right now is that it's a really imaginative Thunderbolt Display. Hopefully the next few versions get it out of this gray area

 

[Jensend]

But I thought the VP is compatible with 3rd party controllers, just like iPads and iPhones? So isn't it just up to developers to write games that use those controllers?

It isn't compatible with controllers designed for VR/AR... controllers that have tracking with 6 degrees of freedom. Hand tracking isn't as precise as tracking of VR controllers. Those controllers allow you do play new kinds of games and apps, not just the same old games with 3D graphics.

Hand tracking will work well with some VR games, but not with the majority of them that have been released so far.

 

[Jim Lahey]

Lots of talk about the dream of lightweight glasses since the advent of AVP. That may be a future answer to AR, but for immersive VR it's a non-starter due to the impossibility of visual isolation. Personally I prefer RLR and believe all this stuff should die forever, but that'll be an unpopular opinion on a tech forum so I won't labor the point 👍

 

[Gleipnir]

Yes, but it's like the AVP we are discussing is an all-in-one aside from the battery. In comparison something like the Air 2 Pro wired to a thick iPhone like processing unit with built in battery could be future. That would be like comparing a iMac to a Mac Studio with a Studio Display. Who's to say that in a couple of years the industry won't have 4K displays by then for each eye at a competitive price.

BTW all those 3d films are only 1080P, not really something that shows off a AVP graphics.

Outside those thoughts has anyone that used a AVP at length feel like their eyes get real tired being busy doing a lot of things outside watching a video?

It's hard to say. Your idea is something Apple had once considered. Simply put, it involves having an additional station to handle data, while what you wear is just a monitor. However, Apple later abandoned this idea, believing that a device capable of independent operation should be developed.

 

[Bodhitree]

I’m just not sure there is a significant market of people who want to sit around with a 600 gram set of goggles strapped to their face all day. It’s a different paradigm to interacting with an iPad on the couch or a Mac behind a desk.

The secret sauce of Apple devices for me has always been convenience. The iPhone was supremely convenient, allowing you to carry the internet in your pocket as well as unifying iPod and mobile phone. And the Vision Pro is very distinctly not convenient.

I think there is a Glasses product that will suit the Apple ecosystem, but I think it is a data-centric, AI-assistant-powered device closer to Google Glass or the Humane AI Pin or even the Apple Watch than to a full-on mixed-reality device.