Yeah with something this half-baked and spooky, it's better to just do an audio call. All of Apple's personas look like cadavers even when they're talking.
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visionOS 2: Spatial Personas Can Touch Fingers, High Five, Fist Bump Each Other With Visual and Audio Feedback
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Yeah with something this half-baked and spooky, it's better to just do an audio call. All of Apple's personas look like cadavers even when they're talking.
Can you imagine how good this will be in five years? People may not see it now, but the potential this thing has is insane!
I'm looking forward to watching the 100th Academy Awards in 2028 and getting spatially slapped by a Will Smith persona.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I went to the dentist and they had this compact MRI-like device. Put head in (like women using commercial hair dryer (domes) in the 1960's, 1970s), hear some spinning sounds as the device scanned my head and then the result- a perfect 3D map of my skull & teeth. They were then able to take me inside a 3D model of my teeth in full detail and show me around at any and every angle from root to tip and every little contour in very fine detail (right down to the shape of existing fillings).
Is it so hard to envision a "Personas Pro" booth at Apple stores where anyone wanting "the pro version" goes in, inserts credit card or tap to pay, steps inside the booth (like the old photos booths), it does a similarly super detailed scan seeing through hair (to capture ears), getting perfect representation of hands, (Scan 1: wear your glasses, Scan 2: no glasses), etc? Scan through a variety of emotions to get facial folds/wrinkles right, maybe watch some videos to make you naturally laugh to get scans of what you look like when expressing stronger emotions, etc. Scan the face so well, it captures every little distinguishing mark from lines to mole to blemish.
On completion it shows you your new pro persona, uploads it to iCloud and it downloads to your Vpro on next use. From then on, your Persona Pro takes over when interacting with others. Maybe Vpro then has an app(s)- I suspect there would soon be MANY such apps- to "enhance" your pro persona in which you can apply virtual makeup or similar to remove blemishes, whiten teeth a bit more, etc to basically present the best version of yourself you can conjure. A little de-aging, a little digital slimming, some digital muscle building, etc. to end up with the ideal version of one's self (or perhaps a virtual plastic surgery nightmare persona for those whose ideal is far from reality).
Now the virtual you has a whole upper body scan, not just a front 180˚ or so, so the "incomplete" transparency is gone when viewed from the sides and you even have the back of a virtual head/torso too, so one could "sit next to their friends, look over and they look "whole" instead of "half" fading to nothing. People who have their hair up today will have their ears filled in (because the machines scanned through hair to get them right) and shaking a head to fly hair around won't reveal unscanned areas under that hair that look weird. While the dental scan made me think that would be easy, if that is too hard for some reason, those with longer hair could have a scan 1: hair natural, scan 2 hair up to capture "under the hair elements.
Given the sensitive nature of this kind of "whole body" (only surface of skin) "Xray", perhaps have this system only take height or perhaps pants/leg measurements so that it slugs in a matching half below the torso... or lets a person choose from many existing templates to get a match that looks most like their lower half. And for those who don't mind and want as realistic as possible, they approve a full length scan to get a match as specific to themselves as possible.
Apple could include some basic "no (detailed) scan zone" fabric that people could optionally put over (their clothing to prohibit a skin surface scan of) the most sensitive zones (think bikini-like material for women and trunk or speedo like material for men) so that the system only gets their shape of those zones vs. the skin-surface details. When presented in their clothes, their specific shape would be as realistically them as seeing them in person. However, if one stripped their own persona to "naked", they see that select zones are more like stripping Barbie naked: there's shape but no details. Apparently, only the details offend or excite society.
Now the system has a full body (front, back, sides) that accommodates ever-changing hair styles and gets rid of the half body "fade to nothing" effects. I have to think that this Persona Pro would look dramatically better than anything they are going to get from the "as is" capture approach. This tech already exists and is commonly used in movie making to fully scan an actor so "they" can be in a dangerous scene but not have the actual human there. My dentist just proved that such equipment in one form is readily available down at an individual retail level. Here's a video of a device that seems pretty similar to this idea with an apparent goal to deliver a model to 3D print a doll that looks like one's self. Why not stop short at 3D printing a doll and use the digital scan as a Persona Pro?
Here's another fairly compact approach from EIGHT years ago that seems to be geared towards getting very specific measurements for making custom tailored clothing...
There are MANY more devices demoed online: just search for "full body 3D scan." I have to believe the technology for this idea is fairly mature already... just seemingly not yet applied for this specific purpose.
Make the process have a fee- maybe $50-$100 or so- to cover the costs of the device. With Apple Inc. being Apple, perhaps that's more like $199-$249 or more. Put the booth in Apple stores just like photo booths to shoot the quick 4 photos with friends used to be fairly commonplace in Malls & at carnivals, etc. Anyone wanting a maximized persona goes in, pays and leaves with a much improved persona to download to their Vpro as soon as they get home.
Apple makes easy money from potentially as little as no employee time involvement (just like those stand-alone photo booths). Vpro gets a massive upgrade to this "signature(?)" feature. Zoom, Facetime, Skype, etc that can use personas get upgraded to use Personas Pro too and thus natural "envy" to make "my" persona look as good as Mr. Jones' persona kicks in to make everyone go spend the extra $50-$249 or so. Apple Inc. loves easy upsell revenue. 💰💰💰
Those not interested in Personas Pro can stick with the "free" and "as is" version, so this would be an optional thing vs. mandatory and thus no extra cost unless one wants the Pro version of themself.
I'm sure there's some flaw in this idea but it's not obvious to me as I write this. The booths in the store would be newsworthy and much more realistic personas would definitely get a lot of media attention. As soon as personas look fully realistic and whole, most of the jokes poking at half bodies/ghosts go away. The general experience of simulating being in the same space even when the actual bodies are far apart would be much enhanced.
Is it so hard to envision a "Personas Pro" booth at Apple stores where anyone wanting "the pro version" goes in, inserts credit card or tap to pay, steps inside the booth (like the old photos booths), it does a similarly super detailed scan seeing through hair (to capture ears), getting perfect representation of hands, (Scan 1: wear your glasses, Scan 2: no glasses), etc? Scan through a variety of emotions to get facial folds/wrinkles right, maybe watch some videos to make you naturally laugh to get scans of what you look like when expressing stronger emotions, etc. Scan the face so well, it captures every little distinguishing mark from lines to mole to blemish.
On completion it shows you your new pro persona, uploads it to iCloud and it downloads to your Vpro on next use. From then on, your Persona Pro takes over when interacting with others. Maybe Vpro then has an app(s)- I suspect there would soon be MANY such apps- to "enhance" your pro persona in which you can apply virtual makeup or similar to remove blemishes, whiten teeth a bit more, etc to basically present the best version of yourself you can conjure. A little de-aging, a little digital slimming, some digital muscle building, etc. to end up with the ideal version of one's self (or perhaps a virtual plastic surgery nightmare persona for those whose ideal is far from reality).
Now the virtual you has a whole upper body scan, not just a front 180˚ or so, so the "incomplete" transparency is gone when viewed from the sides and you even have the back of a virtual head/torso too, so one could "sit next to their friends, look over and they look "whole" instead of "half" fading to nothing. People who have their hair up today will have their ears filled in (because the machines scanned through hair to get them right) and shaking a head to fly hair around won't reveal unscanned areas under that hair that look weird. While the dental scan made me think that would be easy, if that is too hard for some reason, those with longer hair could have a scan 1: hair natural, scan 2 hair up to capture "under the hair elements.
Given the sensitive nature of this kind of "whole body" (only surface of skin) "Xray", perhaps have this system only take height or perhaps pants/leg measurements so that it slugs in a matching half below the torso... or lets a person choose from many existing templates to get a match that looks most like their lower half. And for those who don't mind and want as realistic as possible, they approve a full length scan to get a match as specific to themselves as possible.
Apple could include some basic "no (detailed) scan zone" fabric that people could optionally put over (their clothing to prohibit a skin surface scan of) the most sensitive zones (think bikini-like material for women and trunk or speedo like material for men) so that the system only gets their shape of those zones vs. the skin-surface details. When presented in their clothes, their specific shape would be as realistically them as seeing them in person. However, if one stripped their own persona to "naked", they see that select zones are more like stripping Barbie naked: there's shape but no details. Apparently, only the details offend or excite society.
Now the system has a full body (front, back, sides) that accommodates ever-changing hair styles and gets rid of the half body "fade to nothing" effects. I have to think that this Persona Pro would look dramatically better than anything they are going to get from the "as is" capture approach. This tech already exists and is commonly used in movie making to fully scan an actor so "they" can be in a dangerous scene but not have the actual human there. My dentist just proved that such equipment in one form is readily available down at an individual retail level. Here's a video of a device that seems pretty similar to this idea with an apparent goal to deliver a model to 3D print a doll that looks like one's self. Why not stop short at 3D printing a doll and use the digital scan as a Persona Pro?
Here's another fairly compact approach from EIGHT years ago that seems to be geared towards getting very specific measurements for making custom tailored clothing...
There are MANY more devices demoed online: just search for "full body 3D scan." I have to believe the technology for this idea is fairly mature already... just seemingly not yet applied for this specific purpose.
Make the process have a fee- maybe $50-$100 or so- to cover the costs of the device. With Apple Inc. being Apple, perhaps that's more like $199-$249 or more. Put the booth in Apple stores just like photo booths to shoot the quick 4 photos with friends used to be fairly commonplace in Malls & at carnivals, etc. Anyone wanting a maximized persona goes in, pays and leaves with a much improved persona to download to their Vpro as soon as they get home.
Apple makes easy money from potentially as little as no employee time involvement (just like those stand-alone photo booths). Vpro gets a massive upgrade to this "signature(?)" feature. Zoom, Facetime, Skype, etc that can use personas get upgraded to use Personas Pro too and thus natural "envy" to make "my" persona look as good as Mr. Jones' persona kicks in to make everyone go spend the extra $50-$249 or so. Apple Inc. loves easy upsell revenue. 💰💰💰
Those not interested in Personas Pro can stick with the "free" and "as is" version, so this would be an optional thing vs. mandatory and thus no extra cost unless one wants the Pro version of themself.
I'm sure there's some flaw in this idea but it's not obvious to me as I write this. The booths in the store would be newsworthy and much more realistic personas would definitely get a lot of media attention. As soon as personas look fully realistic and whole, most of the jokes poking at half bodies/ghosts go away. The general experience of simulating being in the same space even when the actual bodies are far apart would be much enhanced.
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That’s neat I guess. But if you die in visionOS do you die in real life? No? Then there is still much work to do.
Just when I thought you couldn't go any deeper into the Uncanny Valley.
Didnt they have a problem doing legs for a while ?
Just checked and yep -
Mark Zuckerberg's Avatar Legs Saga Ends With A Whimper, Not A Bang - Kotaku
Facebook’s long-promised VR legs are here, and they ain’t great
kotaku.com
I agree. Something about the demo that guy did in the original post, with “hands” touching yet hearing beeps like you’re doing some technology thing, just feels really weird to me. I don’t really have the words to explain why, but it feels inauthentic and like a terrible replacement for physical touch.
Someone, somewhere is going to do this. And call it an interactive experience. And charge for it.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Of course, none of this is a replacement for physical touch. I don't believe that is the idea at all. Instead, imagine the friend is NOT able to meet with you for physical touch: you are on the east coast and they are on the west coast. Instead of traditional FaceTime where you are trying to get something a little better than audio-only on the phone, this is trying to be something better than video-only on a little screen.
Military families are often hoping for decent video signal so they can see their loved ones serving somewhere far, far away. The idea here is to try to deliver an experience that is a little closer to getting together- even though they can't possibly get together at this time- something beyond looking at a conference room screen or a tiny screen in ones hand to see another person at some distant location interacting with us.
Too many of us seem to have this idea that this is trying to replace reality. It's not. That's in the name: "VIRTUAL" or in other examples "AUGMENTED." When we are able to experience live & in-person, nothing is going to beat that. But we're not always able to do that... and this is one of a variety of cuts to try to do better than the long-term traditional of a phone call only... or perhaps a telegram before that... or a letter before that.
Eventually, we'll have (Star Trek-like) holodecks where every sense can be stimulated in ways that seem towards real. If that's out in the 22nd century though, this is an early cut at SOMETHING towards that...a stair step with many more to go if you will... like that letter before that telegram before that phone call before that video call.
"Think different"
I'm just going to point out how this story is the EXACT same way the smartphone/app universe started with the FAR-less-whelming iPhone v1.0 came out. (Actually the AVP v1.0 is way more useful than playing with visual voicemail and trying to load broken desktop-only websites on the first iphone!)
So it's kinda like telling a story about how slow-moving and boring a river is, without telling the audience (or maybe yourself 🤔) that you have no idea whether or not you're 10 ft from the edge of niagra falls.
I'm not suggesting AVP v1.0 will be the iPhone v1.0's Niagra Falls. I'm just saying that talking about how smooth and boring the river is now means absolutely nothing about what it will be like in a little bit.
It all comes down to the fundamental issue of having to strap something to your face. The avg person hardly even wants to wear their every day glasses cuz it’s annoying. Myself included
Two things:
1. That is also the EXACT story that was repeated for the iPhone v1.0: "The avg person would never want to stare at a tiny screen every day" 🤦♂️
2. What all comes down to that? Literally what? What's the point?
Is the point a super-early prediction that Apple Vision won't sell as many units as iPhones at their respective peaks? Who's talking about that? What does that matter? Who even thinks that's remotely likely (even if they got it spatial computing down to 'chunky sunglasses' size/weight)?
Or maybe is the point a super-early prediction that Apple Vision won't get wide enough usage or adoption to continue development or growth in spatial computing?
Because that point, based on THIS moment in history is a very bold prediction with nothing to support it. Not only is it somewhat flawed (wearables aren't always going to be the only way we access spatial computing), but that point just screams "I have the same lack of imagination for how a different way to access technology will change user behaviour now that tech is escaping a screen in our pocket, as I did when tech escaped the 'computer room' at home!"
Again, it's saying this river is boring and hoping nobody notices that you're only basing that on the 10ft you're floating in. Not looking at the 5 sets of crazy rapids you just floated through, and pointedly not looking downstream at all.
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Huh? People been using their phones even before the iPhone all the time.
I had MSN, AIM and ICQ on my Nokia and Sony Ericsson. Before that it was all about Snake 2! And of course there was also the Game Boy.
I also didn’t even pretend to be predicting the future of AVP? (I don’t care). I simply said I wasn’t very impressed compared to the other much cheaper VR I tried and I expected to have my mind BLOWN the moment I put it on but nope didn’t happen unlike the first time I used an iPhone.
I guess I just have had high expectations considering my former experience with Apple products.
Does watching Marvel movies look amazing on AVP? Of course but what else? Eye tracking was neat but wears my eyes out and everything else is „just like another VR headset“.
If I have to choose between an iPad comfortably laying on my lap on the couch and / or a laptop with two displays instead of wearing a thing on my face, I’d always choose the first option.
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Uh... wut?
Are you trying to say that people looked at the screens of their pre-smartphone pocket devices anywhere near as much as they use their smartphones now?
Okay, so it seems like your point is that using spatial computing device is inconvenient, so therefore... (I'm having to read between the lines here becuase you haven't actually put forth a point with your posts!)... so therefore... spatial computing will not catch on? Is that your point?
There is no point????? I simply posted my experience with the AVP on a FORUM?! It doesn’t have to make a „point“? It’s called an opinion.
Let’s move on now 👏🏼
You didn't use iPhone v1.0 did you? Or you forget.
That's my point. That's the point you don't get. The experience of using iPhone/iPad/AppleWatch/AVP v1.0 tells you NOTHING about what using it will be like al few years later.
And you SEEM to be saying (without actually making the point) that the AVPs v1.0 use today speaks to its use later. That's just out to lunch.